very new to this stuff.
 

so are you telling me i can not fly by myself at a club if i do not do all these required things? that seems a little strict. i realize that if there are a lot of people around it is a good idea. if there are 2 or 3 guys flying i should be able to fly if i join the club. as long as i can take off and land safely. its my plane if i cant land it deadstick that is my problem, unless i am about to land on top of someone. i am sure having an instructor is a good idea, but what if i want to fly and he cant be there. am i stuck at home? i am not trying to cause an argument but if this is what i can expect at my local clubs i might just find a big field and go at it by myself. with alot of sim time i will be able to do it.

very new to this stuff.
 

I'm not sure if this is a response to a previous post or not..........
but It is definitely a good idea to have an instructor....if that instructor can't make it, then find somebody else at the field to help you.....even one flight on a buddy cord that day will get you one step closer to flying on your own. Also, in my opinion, it's much more fun (and safe) to fly with a couple of buddies than by yourself. Sure, you can go at it alone.....I tried it that way too.....crashed my plane in 15 seconds and it sat in my basement for 3 years.....then I got help, and learned the right way, and have been flying nonstop ever since.
People don't tell you to fly with instructors for their sake......they tell you this because they know from experience.......I don't care how much simulator experience you have, it will never replace having an experienced person on the other side of that cord. Be patient, and you'll enjoy this hobby much more.

Just my $.02.....

Mike

very new to this stuff.
 

You're flinging a six or seven pound missile around by guess and trial-and-error at a hundred mph and you want everyone nearby to shrug it off?

Did you buy a car and decide to teach yourself how to drive on the highway?

The two reasons club member want you to learn properly are enlightened self interest - they don't want to be T-boned mid flight by an out of control plane crossing the pattern - and because most of us are nice guys and want to share a sport/hobby we love and feel that letting you burn yourself isn't the best introduction. A LOT of us made all the mistakes we see new faces making and are kind enough to offer to help. Some folks just aren't as nice about it as others. The guy with the $2,500 plane has a right to be nervous about a fledgeling seeming to be out of control and headed at him.

Each club has it's own rules and guidelines. Most limit the number of planes allowed in the air at once and some mandate the maximum length of flight time. If there are only a few fliers at the field our club allows bending of these 'soft' rules. The safety rules are set in stone. No taxing in the pits, no flying over/behind the spectator area & parking lot, etc. It's freedom with responsibilities, just like everything else in the world.

If you can demonstrate proficiency then you will probably not be challenged. If you're scaring everyone maybe you should seek help . . . with your flying.

very new to this stuff.
 

Not really following you here, but let me take a stab at this:

I believe you are talking about club rules. If this is true, then its self explanatory. You will not be a member if you cannot follow the rules. They are put in place to ensure the safety of you and those around you, not just to cause you grief.

Being a newbie myself (1yr anniversary next month), I can tell you that if you cannot take off, fly, and land a plane (i.e. - solo) then you are not ready. That is a safety risk!!! Not only to you, but others as well, and don't even get me started on how costly it will be.

A good instructor will not only teach you how to fly, he will teach you how to fly safely. Don't rush it, take your time to learn the basics well, get experienced, and solo when you are ready.

I knew guys who tried the concept of going to a big field and flying by themselves (mainly because they did not want to pay for club dues or AMA). Now all of them are members of my club, got their AMA, and are in training now (does'nt take many planes to justify the savings). Not to mention the scare one guy had (his plane got away from him and hit a house a few miles up the road, lucky it did not hurt anything). Of course, proper training would reduce the risk of that happening.

I was able to solo my third flight with a trainer (and about 6 hours practice on a simulator). The simulator does help, it is good to practice on, but it is not a replacement for good, one-on-one training. How are you going to teach yourself the proper way to fly if you don't know how??? A simulator can't teach you that.

My 2 cents worth, now its time for the more experienced guys to chime in.

very new to this stuff.
 

The reasons clubs have "rules" about people being "soloed" or "rated" in some way is safety.

My club had 250 members in it at the end of last year. With that many guys around, you can't know everyone, so you want a way to know if someone showing up with a trainer is new and might want or need help, or if they know what they are doing. My club requires you to show your club membership card and there is a stamp or sticker on it that says if you are ok to fly on your own or not.

So, how big an issue is safety? Well, I'll tell you this. When I'm in the pits working on my planes, I always watch landings and especially take offs. And I never park near the ends of the runway anymore, if I can help it.

It usually only takes a new guy one near miss to get the message. Personally, I've had guys fly entirely too close to me or my car too many times to not keep an eye out.

One long time member botched a take off and did a little arc right over my head about 10 ft up, and planted in to the hood of a parked car right next to me. Huge crater in the hood, broken windshield, and a huge mess. Another time, I was visiting another field, and a guy lost control right after lift off (mechanical failure) on a test flight. It passed right over my car and hit a tree. Years ago, I was also hit in the leg by a trainer. There were 3 or 4 of us a the field. Fortunatly, the pilot had cut power as things started going south so the engine was stopping as it came in and it was going slowly. The pilot had hit a gopher hole in the runway on a touch-and-go. I saw the plane coming and took the wing on the side of the shin. I could have avoided it, but there were some brand new planes behind me, and I figured it would hurt me less than the new planes :) No damage to me or the airplane. But if the pilot had paniced or not reacted quickly, it could have been a mess.

New pilots plant planes. Experienced pilots plant planes. Everyone plants planes. The experienced pilots are better at planting them in safe areas where it won't hit anyone or cause damage, and usually know enough to dump a plane rather than risk someone's life. Instructors keep you from planting your plane too often, and if you do, away from hurting anyone.

Remember, people have been killed by .40 size trainer/sport planes at landing speeds. I'd prefer that no one be next. I'd espeically prefer that I'm not next.

Now, your concern about finding an instructor, and so on. Yes, I agree, that sucks big time. I went though that myself when I was learning, and I did some stupid things as a result. At the time, I was a member of a small club in an area that didn't have any other clubs and only 2 or 3 instructors. I had a hell of a time learning to fly. I did try to fly once on my own, after I had flown several times with the instrutor. It was a short flight, I was lucky and only broke my plane a little bit. Maybe you'll do better.

Most clubs, however, have a fair number of guys who are helpful, and will go out of their way to help you and give lessons. My club has guys who will spend a whole Sunday at the field and never fly their own airplane, it's one buddy-box session after another.

So, give your local club a chance. See how they work, and if the instructor situation is good or bad. If it's really that bad, then find a good safe place well away (at least 3 miles) from any other RC field, and give it a go.

I will say, the electric park flyers are easier to fly than a .40 size trainer. things move a lot slower, and you have time to think.

Oh, and what gives a club the "right" to have rules? Well, it varies place to place. My club leases land from a realestate company. That means the club controls the land, it's private property. If the club says you have to leave, you have to leave, and we can have the cops show you the gate (never happend, im sure it never will) (but we almost always have cops at the field watching, we get a lot of spectators). In fact, our agreement with the landowners says that the club MUST control who flys and who doesn't. Members and guests only. (guest rules are loose and easy, and I've hosted people more than once).

Other clubs fly from public land where the local government sometimes says that anyone who wants to fly can fly, with no limits. People do show up at those fields, refuse help thinking they have it under control, and promptly plant their plane. Personally, if I had a choice between public and private, I'd fly at a private club for the safety alone.

I'm not a rules for rules kind of guy either. I do my share of flaunting the rules :). But safety is not something I mess around with.

very new to this stuff.
 

Don't need rules?

Think you can do it on your own?

Read the thread about the 13 yr old girl that was just killed by an RC airplane.

Happy flying!

very new to this stuff.
 

Can you provide a pointer to that thread? when and where did this happen? is this 3 in people dead in the last 2 years world wide? (one guy in Arizona, and someone in England, now this?) Oh, and the young boy (forget where and how old) who was hit in the head and put in the hosiptal, but will recover (wing hit, not the engine, thankfully).

very new to this stuff.
 

gr8johnson3,

Look, to step it back a little, the rules in that othe thread aren't nearly as bad as they sound, trust me. Keep an open mind, and talk to the guys local to you. Chances are, you'll have no problems, and you'll see it's not a big thing. But there are stories of unfriendly clubs or individuals in some clubs. It's sad, but there are *****es everywhere.

very new to this stuff.
 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...284&forumid=59]

very new to this stuff.
 

8 lb plane @ 100 mph = 2672 ft. lbs. of energy. Same as a .30-06.

Re: very new to this stuff.
 

imagine if someone was standing under this instead of the truck.

very new to this stuff.
 

Saw a vidio of a guy that bought a full scale helicopter and tried to fly it. He had the same mentality of the guys that think they can just go out and fly. He was going to "just run it up". Damn lucky to be alive!

Same applies to RC planes. Why push it if you have not done it. Get help, keep from killing someone. Even in an empty field, planes can get away and to to a non empty field. Then what do you do?

very new to this stuff.
 

if you want to loose two or three fingers because nobody learned you how to start and handle a plane safely on ground then you don't need an instructor.

very new to this stuff.
 

:(

Thanks for the link, Tattoo.

You know, when I started flying, the AMA used to make a big deal about how no one had ever been killed, and how they had never had to pay out a serious injury claim and how safe model aircraft really were (or something like that. Wish I had some of the old MA issues that talked about the safety record at the time).

Now it seems like people are getting hit far more often than they used to. The AMA doesn't publish it's accident rate information, which is a shame I think. I wonder if the accident rate really has been going up over the years. It sure seems like it.

I wonder if there is a higher accident rate, or if it's just more reported. I also wonder how the accident rate has changed compared to the number of flight hours and number of pilots. I do know that the AMA's membership hasn't grown much over the years.

Still, no matter how you slice it, even a "small" model going "slow" can kill you.

very new to this stuff.
 

Going back and re-reading the first message in this thread, I realized you did say "take off and land safely" and were commenting on the deadstick or other "required" items.

Basically it comes down to being able to take off and land safely Every Time, even when something goes wrong. Deadsticks are common in model airplanes. I've seen a lot of guys go in because of a deadstick at the wrong time. And I've seen guys freeze up and go in to the pits when deadstick, or try to streach a glide they have no buisness streaching. I tell my students to practice deadsticks often. Because it takes practice to get the hang of judging when you can make it to the field and when you need to aim for the softest looking bushes. It takes practice to learn when to suck it up and apply full down elevator and reach for the shovel and garbage bag. Every really good pilot I know has done that at least once.

It takes practice to know what to do when a gust of wind or a bump in the runway lifts a plane off the ground before it really has flying speed. This is the #1 killer of model airplanes and the reason why I watch take offs so carefully, guys are forever yanking their planes off the ground too soon or not hanling the early departure correctly.

Being able to "safely" take off and land when things are good is not the issue. Keeping things safe when $#!7 happens is the issue. There is a world of difference. The "rules" for being "soloed" are to help everyone know that the other guy should be able to handle at least the simplest issues.

I really think most flight instruction ends way too soon. Guys need to learn like they learn in full scale. Learn emergency procedures. practice them. Learn what your plane does when it's doing things you'd never want to do intentionally. Very few guys do this. I do, though not as much as I should. But I have saved planes and made "good decisions" at bad times. And I've seen some amazing saves by guys who I know think about safety and what to do when things go south in a hurry.

very new to this stuff.
 

Just my .02. The way I figure it, and this was reaffirmed when I startef my .46 FX up for the first time, is that these things are not toys. This is not something I would want either of my son's using until they are at least my age! But it is more than that. It's about consideration, both for yourself and others around you. Is it worth it to take a chance and possibly harm yourself or someone else? Nope. Is it worth the money to crash it for any other reason than impatientce? Nope. How about the time you spent to put it together, is it woth it? Nope. So, for me, I have done everything to date in the accompanyment of a qualified person, and went through everything at least twice step-by-step. I have alot of time, energy and money invested into this, and I don't want to throw it all away because I am anxious to fly my plane.

very new to this stuff.
 

The statement says a LOT!!! Get a pad of paper and pen. Every time you crash...write down $200. Now practice until you can take off and land dead on the runway, 20 times in a row without crashing...and without the plane ever going over your head or behind you. When you've done that, look at your paper and see how much money you spent if it had been real life. Also, for every $200 you wrote down, you had the chance of harming yourself or anyone else at the field.

very new to this stuff.
 

Montague, good observation. I only started a few years ago, and I have the same impression. I remember an article in MA discussing whether big planes are more dangerous than small ones, and the response was essentially that there are so few personal injury claims that you couldn't make a case either way, there was just no data. I got the impression that AMA insurance went mostly to fix busted windshields.

Our club has an "appreciation day" for the government that pays for our field, and there are hundreds of spectators. I'm wondering if maybe that's not such a good idea...

very new to this stuff.
 

ok, first i am sorry i posted a thread instead of replying to another thread. it did make it a bit confusing. second thing is, i will join a club. i want input from other people and it is more fun to have others involved with your hobby. whats the point of having a hobby if not to meet new friends. i will get instruction. i feel it is important for advancement. i would never put anyone else in danger flying. if i dont know what i am doing i will stay away from others until i can fly safely. i went to the driving range to learn how to hit the ball somewhat safely, and i learned to control my mountain bike before i went to ride on trails with other riders. well i hope i didnt piss off too many folks. i guess i am just not a conformist when it comes to some things. i didnt join this hobby to be governed by a ton of rules. safety is always first. that is my point. as long as i am safe i should be able to fly. even if i cant deadstick land or do a certain loop.well talk to you guys later.

very new to this stuff.
 

Some people just get too hung up with the rules. I would hope that the rules you're refering to were instituted for a reason. What ever that was, I'm sure it was necessary. I agree with you about being "governed by a ton of rules". Maybe if you don't agree with a rule, it can be discussed in a civilized manner (some of the rules makers can be a little bullheaded when confronted) and some revisions will be made.

very new to this stuff.
 

My club requires you to do basic maneuvers, a horizontal figure eight from both directions, approaches from both directions, immelman turns from both direction and a dead stick landing. these are to simply show your ability to control the plane at different attitudes and your ability to land safely. Your qualification flight must be witnessed by two qualified pilots. I fully agree with these rules they are for safety. Part of the qualification is your ability to safely pre-flight check your plane and safe starting procedures. You must also demonstrated that you are familiar with AMA and club safety rules. I personally feel this had made me and other pilots in our club (300 members) better pilots and provides a safe fun place to fly. By all means join a club, the small price is more than made up in enjoyment and safety

Terry

very new to this stuff.
 

gr8johnson3, now you're talking. I'm glad you're seeing the light. Don't worry, you didn't piss anybody off.....we're only concerned for the safety of you and others around you. Don't look at this hobby as being governed by a "set of rules", look at it as "common sense safety practices". It really is a great hobby, and it's much more enjoyable when you learn flying and safety the right way.

Good luck!!

Mike

very new to this stuff.
 

gr8johnson3,
Naw, you didn't piss me off at all, it's cool. And I doubt you pissed anyone else off either. I hope I didn't make you angry either, it wasn't my intent. Speaking for myself, I was just trying to point out that this stuff can be dangerious, and that there is more to "basic safe control" of an airplane than takeing off, flying around in a circle, and landing. You'll find this out, I'm sure.

At the very least, you should know that every field I've ever flown at has "no fly zones". At the least, no flying over the pits. Some, like my current club, and the one I learned at, have more complicated no-fly areas based on the surroundings. These "rules" are there to keep the club from loosing the field. And they are strictly enforced, because it just takes one idiot and all the club members could wind up with out a place to fly.

The reason for the strong reaction is that everytime someone is hurt or killed, it makes the news, and it makes "the powers that be" more likely to decide that all of us are too dangerious to have around. It won't take much for my club to loose it's field. We have enough trouble as it is. There are already people out there who would happily outlaw RC aircraft. Giving them more reason isn't a good idea. Showing that we are careful, and as safe as possible is. And I'd never want to hear about you or anyone else getting hurt, this is supposed to be fun and relaxing. Nothing is perfectly safe, and beleive me, I'm not someone who seeks safety above all else.

pinball,
Actually, I would argue that those kinds of days are absolutely necessary. You want the population to see that while crashes happen, the hobby/sport is safe. Every year, kids get killed or crippled playing football. And they have a lot of safety rules, and a lot of regulations. In many ways, we aren't that different. Actually, I'd say we aren't at all different from car races. (don't quote that in public unless you do some real research and normalize for the number of people flying RC and the number of people playing football or racing cars, etc). However, I would make sure that if you have an airshow, you make sure the pilots flying are safe ones, and you use a good crowd control methods like decent set-backs and such. I'm sure you already do those things.

And the fact is, if there is an accident at your field, and someone is hurt or killed, if your club has been in the public eye with airshows and such, and people know that it's been there and active for all that time, then you're more likely to have people agree that a freak accident was, in fact, a freak accident, and not get your field shutdown as "unsafe". Airshows make for good community relations.

As for the safety of the bigger planes, to be honest, I think the most dangerious thing on the field is a .40 sized trainer :)

Seriously though, I do think the big birds are just as safe, if not safer than the smaller planes. Even takeing in to account the greater impact force of a heavier plane. (this is coming from a guy who does't own anthing bigger than an old OS .61fs engine).

NO BRAINER!
 

jr8
i do understand your temtation, but don't doit!

why bother checking tire pressure on a motorcycle before each and every trip?

why go through any checklist before doing anything?

just ask the ones who had to find out by themselves (if they are still around)... :stupid:

very new to this stuff.
 

this started by me reading the thread titled "soloing" by Montague