RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

The solution to that problem is to pull up elevator while you go full throttle. You'll have that problem with any sort of wing hold-back, on the bench or on the ground. I don't like tail holdbacks, since the tail of the plane is not usually as strong as the wing. Even on the ground, I use long stakes for wing holdbacks.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Imagine starting a 60 size plane on the ground. You are a bit tired, the engine has been giving you trouble, your grip on the fuselage/wing is less than perfect, you don't notice the throttle is wide open. You hit it with the starter. The outcome can be awful. This will never happen to you, right? The safety stand automatically can prevent this accident. If you must personally experience this accident before you believe it can happen to you, well good luck. Our club has ten of these stands. I enjoyed redesigning the Merkon stand. Our design can be downloaded from our website at http://www.wilsonrc.org. I started engines off the ground for many years and always saw a danger. First time I saw these safety stands I knew that was a safer/better way. There is still a danger, though. Gives others a chance to argue.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I'm very new to flying, only had two training sessions so far. That said, we have four benches at our field and are full most of the time. I am on crutches and couldn't work on the ground if I wanted to. I move a chair out to the pilot area as I'm limited to how long I can stand on a bad knee. Club members are great and help me enjoy the sport a lot. My point is, some of us folks can't work on the ground and need the benches. I learned a few years ago (the hard way) on a friends plane to get behind a running engine to remove glow-driver and make adjustments. Accidents do occur and we need to use our heads and learn from them. I'm done ranting now.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I've been trying to talk our club into putting up safety benches.

The usual response I recieve is, "people shouldn't be starting their planes on a table".

Unfortunately that's exactly what they do, because there are no safety benches around, particularly the older guys...

When I point this out, all I get is a "they should stop this practice"... uhm ok... but all of the training instructors do exactly the same thing.

The problem is that most of the club officers fly larger scale planes 33% up planes, so they are disinterested in the needs of the smaller plane flyers.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I built these stand from scrap lumber from the house being built next door.
Just build a couple and take them aout there and start using it.
People were aprehensive when they first arrived. Soon they were being used regularly.

Thanks for all of the input,
KW_Counter

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

there is nothing wrong with the benches. Our club has about 8 of these. We have been using them for at least 5 years. They are great! Sounds like both accidents occured because we didn't use common sense. Never, ever stand inline with the propeller arc. If that prop breaks and you are inline you are going to get hit. What are the chances that it hits the bench and bounces up and hits the pilot? In the first incident, you should always walk behind the plane to remove the glow stick. In regards to taildraggers, I always hold up elevator when running up the engine to keep the tail down. I also grab the fuse from behind when running up the engine just to be sure. Common sense fella's, you can't buy it, you are born with it!

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

:D
Yes that will work but it is very hard to tune the engine and hold up elev at the same time.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I've wondered about doing just that.

I could pre-assemble the major pieces and just "drop it off" one day when no-one is around... then see the results.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Hi RVman
How do you manage to safely hold your plane on the ground, go to full throttle, and safely tune the engine? Ever have it at full throttle when the engine started? Yes, it is stupid to do that. I have only done it twice. Fortunately I had the plane on a safety stand.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I tune mine on the stand all the time. I start the plane at half throttle, walk around to the side of the plane and put one hand on the plane to hold the back down, the use the other hand to push the TX stick to full throttle (TX is hanging on the stand as in the photo in previous post), and then use that same hand to tune the needle valve. One hand is always on the plane while the other is tuning the needle valve and adjusting the throttle stick. Not difficult, and the plane is at a very convenient height for tuning.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Take a length of soft cotton rope with you. Loop it under the stand and over the fuselage near the tail. Tie it loosely and use the throttle all you want. Don't forget to remove the rope before picking up the plane. Simple and safe.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I hold the plane with at the tail with my left hand and i tune with my right. I'll just say that use whatever method your comfortable with is best. I am not comfortable with a table so I don't use the table. There isn't a single best/safest way for every plane or person.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I watch guys, both on the ground and on the bench hold the plane with their left hand and hit to starter to the spinner with their right. I do it. The difference is that some of them do it without any restraint. Scares the hell out of me. Good judgement comes from experience, Experience comes from bad judgment. Lets hope the leaning path is smooth. As a kid, "Mom, how come I have to learn things the hard way". Needless to say I've travled a rough path.

Don

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

we had an incident at the field... this man was starting his has gasser by hand and it kicked in backwars and his plane rolled backwards off the stand...the3 safety officer pointed out that starting an engine should be a two man job......since then i have never seen his planes on a stand.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

especially if the plane is oily

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

We have the stands at our field and about half the people seem to use them. Im not the tallest person in the world at 5' 3" and personaly dont like the stands one bit. The plane ends up sitting to high for me to easly reach over the prop and hold the plane still while I hit it with the starter. I use a ground restraint that I take to the field with me.

Someone had a backfire the other day on the stand. There was a bunch of old fuel aparently laying on top of the stand that ignited. It almost burned the guys plane up but they realised what was happening and saved it in time.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

After using a starting table for the first time 15 years ago, I would never even think about starting on the ground.

We also have 10 of the t-shaped tables at our club, I personally don't care for those either, as I find them to be to tall and I don't care for the wing restraints. They are riddled with prop strikes after only 2 years, apparently people have trouble removing there planes without hitting them.

I prefer the table below which we use at our other flying site, adjustable for all length planes and much shorter and less complicated than the stands shown above, made of scrap cedar from a deck project, this table is close to 20 years old and has been outside the entire time.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

This is rediculous. The safety officer needs get his head pulled out! The benches are clearly not the problem. It's the operators that can't think clearly enough not to reach through, or across for that matter, a spinning prop and another that has yet to learn to install his prop securely. This is a classic example of someone so short sited that they "can not see the forest for the trees". If anything needs to be removed from your feild it is the safety officer.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I'd much rather work off a stand than off the ground. However, brain-lock can occur in any position.:D

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Love the test stands

My dad and i built 2 last year and they are used most of the time, I also have an engine test stand that is bult to fit the stands the 2 other stands we built have room for a tx and tools Il try and get some pics of those next time im at the field (the one in the pic is the original design)

Steven

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Gunfighter, I've got to agree that your bench is the best design. Our club had just flat benches with no restraints. However a cord looped around one of the boards and then over the tail works well. One other thing I like about our benches is that there is a 1" board on the top on both edges. Kind of a curb to keep you from slipping a wheel off one side. A couple of us were talking last fall trying to figure how we could modify our benches for the stakes like yours. Our benches is 1x4 planks on 2x and4x frame, so just drilling the top wouldn't be to good. However a couple 2x's under the bench would provide a good support for them. What it the spacing on your holes?

Don

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

We have 8 of the benches at our field and all love them. The only problem we have ever had is with multiengine planes, they will seldom fit the stand. They are far safer than the old ground starting procedure was as well as much more comfortable for us old guys with bad knees.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

Campgems,
The bench is made from 2X6 cedar, the inside pieces are ripped in half and layed on edge, giving a thickness of 2-5/8th, this is all glued and screwed together. The outside perimeter is just 2X6's. The table is 28" X 74" with a height of 26-3/8" The nice thing about doing it this way is the size is up to you, make it as big as you want. It's a bit unmobile though and quite heavy.

The holes are 1-3/8th" and are spaced 6" apart, starting 2 inches from the back for a total of seven holes.

The restraint is all galvanized pipe, a 1"x1/2"x1/2' Tee, with 2 short pieces of 1/2", a 90, and then a 12" piece of 1/2" for the uprights, and a 6" piece of 1" for the bottom stub, this gives you a 1/8" of play in the holes for easy removal. Alot of guys use PVC holders, BAD IDEA!!

Your edge piece is an excellent idea, just a piece of 1X standing up about an inch would be perfect. This table could also be set-up for wing restraints using pieces of 1/2" pipe with a coupler on the lower half and the holes drilled at 7/8" I have a couple of these for the club, which uses PVC.[:@] The reason is, I've seen one break.[:o]

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

I am not a super fan of those stands,I would rather start on the ground with a hold down strap attached to the tail,I find having to pick up the plane to remove it from the bench while running when I am lifting a larger plane makes me uncomfortable.
our benches are backed up against a fence so you have to lift the plane up to clear the wing restraints not the best set up,our club has ground restraints as well so we have options.

RE: Starting Bench Safety Issues
 

The benches are a great aid in setting up a plane and for engine tuning.

The "tip over" is easily handled. I merely use a bungee cord to hold the plane's tail against the bench.

Since this forms a three point hold, there is little chance for the plane to move or get away from the pilot.

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For larger planes, a lower bench may be warrented.