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RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Anyone know how to set this switch up. It has two sets of Black/Red servo plugs coming out of one side and one set of Black/Red wires with servo plug coming out of the other. I can use it to insect my motor as that has three wires. The plug for the battery is different. So? Anyone? |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Anyone know how to set this switch up. It has two sets of Black/Red servo plugs coming out of one side and one set of Black/Red wires with servo plug coming out of the other. I can use it to insect my motor as that has three wires. The plug for the battery is different. So? Anyone? |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
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Sorry Bruce didn't mean to seem lazy. The switch didn't come with any instructions. I'll try not to pose such stupid questions in the future. [:o]
Well to show you the finished product. Here are some photos of the little "Cloud Ranger" The Herr company does a nice job. I would defiantly build another of their kits. I'm still having a bit of trouble getting the monocoat wrinkle free, but I suppose that comes with experience. The single "J" logo on the rudder is put on with only "Windex", the double "J" logo is printed on shipping label material and sprayed with Lacquer. :) |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
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Hey Dillion,
I don't think the question about the switch was a dumb one. I do sometimes use them on small models, and almost always on larger ones. On my small glow models, I leave the wing attached permanantly, which makes unplugging the batt a hassle. With yours being electric powered, I suppose you'll be removing the battery for charging anyway, so it's a fine idea to save the 1/4 oz that the switch represents. There are 3 wires on a switch harness. 2 female plugs, and one male. The male one goes into the receiver, and one of each of the female plugs go to the battery (or in the case of a BEC equipped ESC, to the ESC's receiver power wire) and the other is for charging. If you mix up the 2 female plugs, the labeling on the switch becomes "wrong". On becomes off, and vice versa. Just switch the charge and batt plugs and all is well, or reverse the switchplate (usually a separate piece) so it labels the switch's function correctly. HOpe it helps. I built a Herr Aquastar a couple years ago, and it too came out a bit overweight. Some of that was my kitbashing, adding features and such, but some more was my overzelous application of CA (was my first kit). There are a whole 2 oz of CA in that plane. Just spent Saturday at a float fly in Mactaquac, where it aquitted itself very well. Showed up several of the larger glow planes. Rumours of the Aquastar's inability to ROW are greatly exaggerated :). Your motor shows a power capacity of 97 watts, and that's inline with the power of a decent .049 reed valve engine, which is what the plane is designed around (well, that and the more potent Norvels). It should fly fine at that power level. My Aquastar is flying with about 130 watts from its Norvel .061 (6x2 @ 21,000rpm [8D]), and it rises off water without difficulty in 30-40 feet. Hope you get'er all worked out, flying 1/2a is a blast, even if it's electric.... :D J |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Sorry Bruce didn't mean to seem lazy. The switch didn't come with any instructions. I'll try not to pose such stupid questions in the future. [:o] Well to show you the finished product. Here are some photos of the little "Cloud Ranger" The Herr company does a nice job. I would defiantly build another of their kits. I'm still having a bit of trouble getting the monocoat wrinkle free, but I suppose that comes with experience. The single "J" logo on the rudder is put on with only "Windex", the double "J" logo is printed on shipping label material and sprayed with Lacquer. :) |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
The trick to using MonoKote Trim Solvent is to use as little as possible. I usually use a bit of paper towel. I open the bottle of solvent, and then put the folded-up piece of paper towel over the top of the bottle. I shake it up and down once. This deposits a small circle's worth of solvent on the towel. Now I fold the towel again and squeeze it to distribute that little bit of solvent on the towel.
To apply it, I wipe the piece of paper towel on the surface that is going to receive the trim. It will look like you've wiped almost nothing on. Then I carefully place the piece of trim...I set one edge down and "roll" it on, making sure I press out as much air as possible when I apply the trim piece. When you're done, you'll find that the piece of trim will be well-adhered to the underlying surface. Of course, the "Windex" method works nicely, too. You can do the same job with a bit of liquid dish detergent in water. Wet the surface, apply the trim piece. Squeegee all of the air out from between the trim and the main surface, and allow it to dry. When it's dry, you can wash the main surface to remove any detergent residue, but the trim piece will remain in place. If you use a sealing iron to make sure the edges are well-stuck to the surface, be careful. Any residual moisture between the pieces will vaporize and make a bubble. Then a small hole made with a needle and a bit of heat are needed to eliminate the bubble. A heat gun to provide the heat and a wipe with a towel work wonders once the bubble's been *****ed with a needle. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Thank you Bruce, I understand. And Bax, thanks for all the good information.
Okay, an Update: Took the "Cloud Ranger" out for her maiden voyage. We have a club Breakfast Meeting on Tuesdays. So I was fortunate to have one of the more experienced pilots on hand. first thing was to put the servos on the right channels. Hahaha So I did that wrong. Next was to be sure all control surfaces where moving adequately. We fixed all of that. Now theres three of us hovering over this little plane. With what we thought was all is well we hand launched her. Floated out as if she just didn’t have quit enough power, but managed to snap a home made plywood control hone on the rudder. She was only about five feet off the ground and drifted into some tall grass. So for 50¢ I didn’t fly today. I don’t think I have the right battery in place. Can I give you guys some information and maybe you can guide me with the proper battery. An explanation of some of these terms would help many of us beginners, if someone has the time. For instants: Engine: what’s Kv?, what does the rpm/v mean to me, Max amps what’s that mean. On the ESC The amps, what is that regulating, FET? BEC Current? And the big question, can we use any battery we have. Like can I use either a 7.4V, 9.6v or 11.1v and what does that do for me. What’s battery mAh mean to the motor power. I know this is asking allot, but if some you can answer a small aspect of the whole problem then at the end I might have all the answers. This is so confusing. Nitro is so much simpler. I have read many web pages and I think I have the ESC to motor part right, the battery is still alluding me. The Plane: Cloud Ranger by Herr Plane: Wing Span = 42” Area = 324 Sq. In. Wing Load = 9.8 oz./sq. In. Weight = 22 Oz. 4 Channel Recommended Engine = .061 to .074 Engine being Used: Turnigy C2230 Brushless Specifications: Power: 98W Kv: 1780rpm/v Turns: 15 Resistance: 642 Idle Current: .7A Max amp: 15A (15sec burst) Voltage: 2-4cell Lipoly ESC: Mag 8 Brushless ESC, Inrunner-Outrunner: Amp rating: 18A (max 20A burst) FETs: 12 BEC Current: 1.5A Timing: Auto Freq: 8khz Lipo: 2-3 cell lipo NiMH: 6~16 Weight: 19.5g (22 with wires) Batteries I have at the moment. Ni-Mh 9.6V 8xAAA 650mAh Or Li-PO 11.1v 700mAh 15C 3 cell Or Home-made Ni-Mh 9.6v 8xAAA 1000mAh I know this is allot to ask, but your all I have. Thanks. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Thank you Bruce, I understand. And Bax, thanks for all the good information. Okay, an Update: Took the "Cloud Ranger" out for her maiden voyage. We have a club Breakfast Meeting on Tuesdays. So I was fortunate to have one of the more experienced pilots on hand. first thing was to put the servos on the right channels. Hahaha So I did that wrong. Next was to be sure all control surfaces where moving adequately. We fixed all of that. Now theres three of us hovering over this little plane. With what we thought was all is well we hand launched her. Floated out as if she just didn’t have quit enough power, but managed to snap a home made plywood control hone on the rudder. She was only about five feet off the ground and drifted into some tall grass. So for 50¢ I didn’t fly today. I don’t think I have the right battery in place. Can I give you guys some information and maybe you can guide me with the proper battery. An explanation of some of these terms would help many of us beginners, if someone has the time. For instants: Engine: what’s Kv?, what does the rpm/v mean to me, Max amps what’s that mean. On the ESC The amps, what is that regulating, FET? BEC Current? And the big question, can we use any battery we have. Like can I use either a 7.4V, 9.6v or 11.1v and what does that do for me. What’s battery mAh mean to the motor power. I know this is asking allot, but if some you can answer a small aspect of the whole problem then at the end I might have all the answers. This is so confusing. Nitro is so much simpler. I have read many web pages and I think I have the ESC to motor part right, the battery is still alluding me. The Plane: Cloud Ranger by Herr Plane: Wing Span = 42” Area = 324 Sq. In. Wing Load = 9.8 oz./sq. In. Weight = 22 Oz. 4 Channel Recommended Engine = .061 to .074 Engine being Used: Turnigy C2230 Brushless Specifications: Power: 98W Kv: 1780rpm/v Turns: 15 Resistance: 642 Idle Current: .7A Max amp: 15A (15sec burst) Voltage: 2-4cell Lipoly ESC: Mag 8 Brushless ESC, Inrunner-Outrunner: Amp rating: 18A (max 20A burst) FETs: 12 BEC Current: 1.5A Timing: Auto Freq: 8khz Lipo: 2-3 cell lipo NiMH: 6~16 Weight: 19.5g (22 with wires) Batteries I have at the moment. Ni-Mh 9.6V 8xAAA 650mAh Or Li-PO 11.1v 700mAh 15C 3 cell Or Home-made Ni-Mh 9.6v 8xAAA 1000mAh I know this is allot to ask, but your all I have. Thanks. KV should mean Kilo-volt. A kilo-volt is 1000 volts RPM/v = expected RPMs for each volt applied (no load/prop) MAX Amps = max amps a supply can produce or in some cases a load/device can survive through. Your ESC is rated for CONTROLLING 18 amps continously or 20 amps for a very short time without damage. The ESC controls the voltages and thereby the current. FET = Field Effect Transistor BEC Current = Current the BEC handles. May be that power available to run all except the motor. Max voltage is that which the system can handle safely. In your case it can handle any 2 or 3 cell lipo. What you want is larger current capabilities from the battery (provides duration of flight) |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
AND...
mAh is milli-ampere hours. This is a unit of capacity for a battery. For example, a 1000mAh battery (1 ampere hour) could handle one ampere being drawn for one hour before the battery is expended. The same battery could handle 500 milli-amperes (mA) for two hours. You don't need to know much about field effect transistors. In fact, the only reason I know anything about them is because I do electronics work on the side. A transistor is basically silicon (a semiconductor) with a dopant applied to create areas of 'P' material and 'N' material. 'N' material essentially has free electrons (-), and 'P' material has electron holes (+). Depending on polarity, "depletion zones' between the material shrink or grow. Transistors can do some really cool stuff. Common devices are MOSFETS, JFETS, J-MOSFETS, etc. The more voltage you apply to the motor, the more 'power' you'll get (to a point). Ampere ratings on batteries (current) have nothing to do with how much power you'll get, but have everything to do with how much duration (flight time) you get. I would go with a three cell LiPo (Lithium Polymer) battery. They are very light and have high power density. BEC stands for battery eliminator circuit. It does just what it's name implies - eliminates the need for another battery. The BEC will allow your servos and radio to be powered from the same battery your engine runs from. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
With respect to brushless motors, kv isn't kilovolts, it's another way of saying rpm/volt. Your motor is rated at 1780kv, or 1780 rpm/volt. If you use 2s lipo's, that's about 8.4v. 8.4v * 1780 rpm/v = 14952rpm. This is how fast it would turn on 2s lipo, with no prop attached (no load). The load (prop) will drag the rpm's down a bit. If you were to use 3s lipo batteries, that'd be 11.1V, so you'd get 11.1 * 1780 = 19758 rpm no load. You'd get much more power. But, you may have to use a smaller prop to avoid overloading the motor. The motor manufacturer can help with that choice, or if you have an ammeter, you can measure current to the motor, and be careful to keep the amps below the motor's rated maximum. Smaller props will draw less current, larger ones more.
To get more power from any brushless electric motor, increasing voltage is how it's done. Increasing voltage means increasing battery cells (going from 2 cell to 3 cell in the example above). Hope this helps. J |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Thank you so much Gentlemen. JBurry, Nathan Kig and of course my bud, Bruce. :) Not sarcasm I do thank you all. So the question is, what RPMs do I need to fly a certain weight plane? I ordered two batteries. One - 7.4 volt - 1650mAh 10C Li-Poly Pack and One - 7.4 volt - 1550mAh 20C Li-Poly Pack This information I got from another group who said it would fly the 22 oz. plane just fine. Am I good here?
Thanks again. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
One - 7.4 volt - 1650mAh 10C Li-Poly Pack
Two - 7.4 volt - 1550mAh 20C Li-Poly Pack These packs will both be able to supply about the same power to the motor. The 1650 will last very slightly longer, but the power would be the same. There are 3 numbers discribing each of your packs. The first is voltage. They are the same. 7.4v. The second is capacity, in mAh. They are the same for all intents and purposes. The difference is only about 7%. The 1650 will last about 7% longer. You won't notice. The third is their discharge rating. The 1650 can supply a maximum of 10x it's capacity, or 1.650 amps x 10C = 16.5 amps. The 1550 can supply a maximum of 20x it's rated capacity, or 1.550 amps X 20C = 31 amps. The difference means nothing in this plane, since your motor is rated for only 15 amps. Surpass that and you'll need to replace the burnt out motor. Getting a 3 cell pack may be the answer here. Be sure, if you do, that the pack is capable of supplying at least 15amps continuous (the motor's rated maximum), and that the propeller on the motor doesn't load it down so much that it draws more than its maximum. The motor supplier may be able to provide this info, otherwise it's the ammeter and experimentation. So, we've looked at your power system from "fuel tank" to "engine". The missing piece of this equation is the "transmission", your propeller. What size prop are you using? If a prop is too small, you'll not get all that the motor has to offer. If too large, it'll cook the motor by forcing it to draw too much current. What RPM's is it turning? If you don't have a tachometer, you may be able to borrow one from a club member. Seems to me that something in the range of a 6x2 or 6x3 might be about right for 3s, and a 7x3 or a 7x4 may be about right for the 2s setup. Part of the trouble we're having here is that you're posting in a forum dominated by glow folks, like myself. I have friends who do electric, and I've a decent understanding of the basics, but ask me to nail down specifics, and I don't have a chance. There is an electric forum here, they may be able to dig you out with more concrete answers.... Good luck, J |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Jburry One - 7.4 volt - 1650mAh 10C Li-Poly Pack Two - 7.4 volt - 1550mAh 20C Li-Poly Pack These packs will both be able to supply about the same power to the motor. The 1650 will last very slightly longer, but the power would be the same. There are 3 numbers discribing each of your packs. The first is voltage. They are the same. 7.4v. The second is capacity, in mAh. They are the same for all intents and purposes. The difference is only about 7%. The 1650 will last about 7% longer. You won't notice. The third is their discharge rating. The 1650 can supply a maximum of 10x it's capacity, or 1.650 amps x 10C = 16.5 amps. The 1550 can supply a maximum of 20x it's rated capacity, or 1.550 amps X 20C = 31 amps. The difference means nothing in this plane, since your motor is rated for only 15 amps. Surpass that and you'll need to replace the burnt out motor. Getting a 3 cell pack may be the answer here. Be sure, if you do, that the pack is capable of supplying at least 15amps continuous (the motor's rated maximum), and that the propeller on the motor doesn't load it down so much that it draws more than its maximum. The motor supplier may be able to provide this info, otherwise it's the ammeter and experimentation. So, we've looked at your power system from "fuel tank" to "engine". The missing piece of this equation is the "transmission", your propeller. What size prop are you using? If a prop is too small, you'll not get all that the motor has to offer. If too large, it'll cook the motor by forcing it to draw too much current. What RPM's is it turning? If you don't have a tachometer, you may be able to borrow one from a club member. Seems to me that something in the range of a 6x2 or 6x3 might be about right for 3s, and a 7x3 or a 7x4 may be about right for the 2s setup. Part of the trouble we're having here is that you're posting in a forum dominated by glow folks, like myself. I have friends who do electric, and I've a decent understanding of the basics, but ask me to nail down specifics, and I don't have a chance. There is an electric forum here, they may be able to dig you out with more concrete answers.... Good luck, J |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Okay, new problem. I had my plane setup with the radio that came with my foamy. I was told I'm asking for problems with an airplane on 27mhz. I have a Futaba 7Cap, but don't know how to setup the receiver. Ho is this arranged using a ESC. I plugged the ESC into Channel 2 and the other servos work, but the motor won't start. I suspect this has something to do with now installing a switch? Can anyone give me a channel setup. I need, throttle, elevator, rudder and ailerons. I'll continue ro seek out the answers on the internet
Thank you |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Okay, new problem. I had my plane setup with the radio that came with my foamy. I was told I'm asking for problems with an airplane on 27mhz. I have a Futaba 7Cap, but don't know how to setup the receiver. Ho is this arranged using a ESC. I plugged the ESC into Channel 2 and the other servos work, but the motor won't start. I suspect this has something to do with now installing a switch? Can anyone give me a channel setup. I need, throttle, elevator, rudder and ailerons. I'll continue ro seek out the answers on the internet Thank you |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Nathan, your the man. Thats exactly what it was. I plugged the ESC it in channel three, moved the throttle to full and the ESC armed the motor. Perfect. From that point it was just a simple task to reverse the number three channel. Everything is good again.
Thanks I may keep this thread open for ever. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
The Airplane didn't fly. The motor must be to small, I put this motor in the plane. Turnigy C2230 Weight: 27g Power: 98W Kv: 1780rpm/v Turns: 15 Resistance: 642 Idle Current: .7A Max amp: 15A (15sec burst) Voltage: 2-4cell Lipoly
Powered by a LiPo 7.4V 1000mAh AND A 9.6 PROP. Didn't work, no enough poer. SOoooooooooooo I have a Speed 400 motor with a 2:1 gearbox, will still use the 7.4v LiPo. and let see what happens. If anyone has any thoughts on this please post. thanks. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
I'm no expert with the electric motors (I fly gas and glow), but you should have a motor rated at 132 watts minimum for an airplane of that weight.
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RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Here I am again with yet another dumb question. I ran to my local Hobby Shop and he had a ESC for a brushed Speed 400 motor. After an hour or so of soldering, I have everything hooked up and working. The ESC allows the servos to work, it regulates the speed of the motor. Everything is working. Heres the problem. After calling Hobby-Lobby and asking how the motor goes into the gearbox I was told to just push it into the back of it, nothing holds it in there. Okay so I did that, but whats holding the gear on the end of the motor shaft. It just spins freely. Do I have the wrong gear? How’s this attached to the motor shaft?
I found the answer to this one. With the Gearbox is a very very small tube of green stuff. What I thought to be grease is in fact glue. This is "Loctite" a very strong type of crazy glue. Anyway, you put just a small drop on the shaft and press the pinon gear on the shaft, let stand awhile and there you have it. There is so much to learn in this hobby, just so very much. I want to Thank all of you for offering up your time to help us beginners, I will remember this and once I have enough knowledge I will also offer my time with answers. I love this Hobby. I will continue to report my problems and accomplishment with this little "Cloud Ranger" Any Idea on a second Plane? Has to be a Kit. No ARF or RTF's. I'd like a scale plane next. Thanks and Happy Fathers Day to us all. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
The pinion gear is either held by friction ( it is heated to expand it prior to installation, then allowed to cool ) or a grub screw.
Usually gearboxes have screw holes for the motor itself. It would help if you posted a picture. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
1 Attachment(s)
Ok what am I doing wrong here. I have no power at all. Heres the setup. A 24oz. Plane. A “Graupner: Speed 400 Motor , 7.2V Thrust 8Oz. Volts 8.4 Gearbox 2.33:1 Battery: 7.2v 20C 1550mAh using a Electrifly C-12 ESC for Brushed Motors Prop: 8X6, "These are motors that consume from 35 to 75 Watts and about 6 to 10 Amps"
Is this motor just hooked up wrong? I soldered the diodes in place. You know after writing this out, this motor just isn’t big enough is it? Says it will work on a 25Oz plane but I doubt that. I think I need a Speed 500 Motor. I’ll order this one http://www.hobby-lobby.com/speed500.htm what do you guys think? This first electric plane is driving me crazy. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
If your wiring is correct then it might be:
i. ESC is not armed, Electrifly ESCs need to be armed properly. Throttle in ZERO position, plug in the batt, listen to the single BEEP, push throttle to FULL, hear a single BEEP, bring throttle to ZERO you will hear like 3 BEEPS. Then its armed. Check if your brushed ESC is the same. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
ORIGINAL: Dillion Ok what am I doing wrong here. I have no power at all. Heres the setup. A 24oz. Plane. A “Graupner: Speed 400 Motor , 7.2V Thrust 8Oz. Volts 8.4 Gearbox 2.33:1 Battery: 7.2v 20C 1550mAh using a Electrifly C-12 ESC for Brushed Motors Prop: 8X6, "These are motors that consume from 35 to 75 Watts and about 6 to 10 Amps" Is this motor just hooked up wrong? I soldered the diodes in place. You know after writing this out, this motor just isn’t big enough is it? Says it will work on a 25Oz plane but I doubt that. I think I need a Speed 500 Motor. I’ll order this one http://www.hobby-lobby.com/speed500.htm what do you guys think? This first electric plane is driving me crazy. |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
Thank you Bruce. At any rate, the motor just doesn't seem to be turning fast enough. Okay let me stand back and leave you guys to it. Can you recommend a motor for this plane. I'd like to do some loops with it, and a few turns and twist. I don't have a ton of money but I'm tired of spending money on things that just don't work. Please help. The plane weighs 25oz. with motor and battery. she has a 325sq.in wing area and a 9oz wing load. Picture above of the plane. It's a Cloud Ranger by Herr.
Open to all help. Thank you. :( |
RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZS57
http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/HRR508.html http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2689 http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17677 http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/a...p/t-98718.html Some possible reading/ideas? The first 2 are to help others know this plane better. |
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