Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Teach us beginners how you do things. Would you answer a few of these questions. Mostly for beginners we are constructing 40 size planes.

1. After putting a kit together what do you harden the wood with? I was using spray lacquer.
2. Do you use CA glue for everything? I use CA to hold parts till I can get Carpenters Glue on it. I like the new Gorilla Yellow Glue. Seems stronger than Bordons.
3. Where’s is the best information on finding Electric combinations. Can any battery be used with any setup. Seems it just adds more power or are there ESC concerns? I s there a rule of thumb for selecting a motor verses weight or wing load?
4. Landing gear. Do we need them on small, under 48” wind span planes. The props are plastic, the planes weigh under two pounds and there’s no chance of actually doing a rolling landing. Is there?
5. How in the world do you guys get those wonderful graphics on your planes. I do simple things like a star or triangle by cutting film and Appling it with Top Flights’ Trim Solvent.
6. Do you guys reinforce these light weigh electric planes with any bass wood. They seem so light and often crack their noses or wings on landing. Yes just a beginner here.
7. Tail Dragger or Tripod landing gear?
8. Online hobby shop? Where’s the best prices. I use Tower, RCHobby Online, Hobby Lobby and Hobby City. Hobby City actually takes to long coming from China and the freight charges will kill you.
9. Is building heavy always a bad thing for beginners. My plane called for it to be 17oz. Mine is 21oz. I must of reinforced it in to many places.
Okay Thank you in advance to anyone who will answer a few of these questions and get us rookies on track. Thanks
:)

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

I can awnser some of your questions:

1. I have never hardened the wood. I always just cover it.
2. You can use CA on most glue joints, however there are some that are going to require epoxy or wood glue. I have not tried Gorrilla glue, however I am being told that it foams as it dry's.
3. Check out the RCU Electrics forum. Lots of great inforamtion
4. Landing gear needed? Yes. It protects the bottom of the plane as well as the prop. How are you going to take off a 40 size plane with no landing gear?
5. Your question awnser's itself on this one. You can cut all your graphics out and apply them with trim solvent or Windex. Some modelers have graphics made and them install them.
6. Same as # 3
7. Tail dragger vs trike. Depends on the plane and what you like.
8. On line sales. I have 4 Hobby shops in my area that match Tower and the other mail order places so I buy locally. I just got a set of retracts ordered from my local hobby shop and he beat Tower on price.
9. Building heavy is usually a bad thing. Some kits have weak areas that need some reenforcement, however most kits do not and adding more weight will ruin the way a plane flys.

Good Luck, Dave

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Rear, read, read and then ask specific questions. It's all here.

skeeter

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

1. After putting a kit together what do you harden the wood with? I was using spray lacquer.
A: There is no need to harden the wood. The covering fuel proofs the airframe, and most planes today are covered with plastic film. Nitro powered planes have to be fuel proofed in one fashion or another. With electric power you do have more choices of covering to use since you don’t have to fuel proof the airframe.

2. Do you use CA glue for everything? I use CA to hold parts till I can get Carpenters Glue on it. I like the new Gorilla Yellow Glue. Seems stronger than Bordons.
A: The selection of glue to use is a builder preference. I personally prefer to use Titebond II or Elmers Carpenter Glue for most of my building. There are areas that you need to use epoxy on – firewall, wing joining, landing gear blocks, high-stress formers, attaching the empennage, etc. I’ve test the new Gorilla glue and found it’s the same as Titebond II, but seems to set just a hair quicker.

3. Where’s is the best information on finding Electric combinations. Can any battery be used with any setup. Seems it just adds more power or are there ESC concerns? I s there a rule of thumb for selecting a motor verses weight or wing load?
A: The electric forums will be the best place to get information on motor/battery/esc combinations. There a many factors involved in the selection of you power system that many threads have been filled.

4. Landing gear. Do we need them on small, under 48” wind span planes. The props are plastic, the planes weigh under two pounds and there’s no chance of actually doing a rolling landing. Is there?
A: I’ve flown 1/2A with landing gear and .15 with out landing gear. Are you flying off a turf field or paved runway? Paved you definitely want landing gear, turf is up to you, but w/o landing gear you will have to hand launch. Smaller planes, especially under .10 powered have a difficult time taking off from grass fields. 1/2A is almost impossible to ROG from turf.

5. How in the world do you guys get those wonderful graphics on your planes. I do simple things like a star or triangle by cutting film and Appling it with Top Flights’ Trim Solvent.
A: If you are using Monokote, you can use Windex to apply it, let it sit overnight after you squeegee the liquid from under the material, then use a film iron to make sure the edges are sealed down good. Card stock, manila folders, cereal boxes, etc. all make good patterns that will allow you cut out more complex curves. Vinyl graphics also stick very well to iron-on film covering.

6. Do you guys reinforce these light weigh electric planes with any bass wood. They seem so light and often crack their noses or wings on landing. Yes just a beginner here.
A: If you are building a proven design, then you shouldn’t modify it at all unless you really know how to design/build an airplane. You should have a good knowledge of aircraft design/fabrication before you start to modify a proven design.

7. Tail Dragger or Tripod landing gear?
A: Conventional landing gear is more difficult to learn on, but lighter in weight and has less drag. Tricycle landing gear is much easier to learn on, much more stable. The choice is your, but most trainers today are tricycle geared, not conventional.

8. Online hobby shop? Where’s the best prices. I use Tower, RCHobby Online, Hobby Lobby and Hobby City. Hobby City actually takes to long coming from China and the freight charges will kill you.
A: This is up to you. If you shop around you can get some really great deals online, but conversely if you don’t support you LHS then he may not be there when you really need him.

9. Is building heavy always a bad thing for beginners. My plane called for it to be 17oz. Mine is 21oz. I must of reinforced it in to many places.
A: You always want to build a plane as light as possible – they just fly better. Take two identical planes, one at 17 oz and one at 21 oz, the lighter plane will have better performance. Will it matter for your plane? It depends on the wing area, wing loading, power output and power loading. Most likely it will fly just fine for a sport plane and you probably won’t notice the additional weight. Pylon racer would be a different story.

Hogflyer

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

In addition to the great information already provided, ask questions as you have already. Whether it be at the flying field or here online, there is a great deal of knowledge within the folks that will be answering them. Also, read as many of the threads on this site for various topics and you will learn a ton!

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Gorilla WOOD glue is different than their Polyurethane glue. The poly DOES expand/foam, the Wood type does not.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

If you CA a joint and then use wood glue over that, it is wasted. The wood glue can NOT penetrate into the pores/grain that was sealed by the CA.

On a gas or Nitro powered plane you would want to seal the engine bay and the fuel bays to avoid fuel soaking. The areas covered (properly) by Monokote or similar are sealed by that. Fabrics and/or tissues need other chemicals to seal.

Harden the wood? HUH? Just extra weight that isn't needed.

If the plane is small enough that it can be hand launched then you don't need landing gear in most cases, otherwise use it. Most 40 size and bigger can not be hand launched.

Tri-cycle gear is usually easier for students in the beginning. Tail draggers are entirely possible though. Tail draggers nose over easier if not balanced/built/landed properly. Also depends on the surface being flown off of.

Electric info? Check the electric forums here on RCU or the sister forum www.wattflyer.com

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

It's a good idea to harden the wood where it will be stressed if you are working with soft balsa. If you have torque rods buried in light grade balsa, pin priiick around the general area after the control surface has been installed, then saturate that area with thin CA, or rub in medium CA. You might pick up .0001 grams of weight doing this with 6 drops of CA, but it is nice to know that the control linkage is stationed on solid wood Same goes with areas that will get control horns, if you are using soft [contest grade] balsa, it doesn't hurt to strengthen these areas. A little bit of light weight spackle fills the pin holes afterwards.
I've built a few 11-12 oz glow models that do 120 mph and have learned where to invest strength in to my weight allowance.
Another way put this basic idea to use is in the engine bay. Instead of painstaking placement of small pieces of tri-stock to lock in firewalls, etc., just pack balsa sawdust into some of those nooks and crannies and hit them with thin CA.
Landing gear? Where I fly? Funny. If you have a healthy supply of grass to land on and you don't mind hand launching your planes, they sure do go a lot better and you don't have to mess with retracts. Don't WWII semi-scale sport planes look stupid roaring around with the gear down? ;)

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Depends on how and what you are doing for the final finish. For a better paint job, either epoxy finishing resin, or polyester glass resin can be used, with or without glass cloth. For other coverings, you might like to try a couple coats of the film/fabric stick-better stuff. For the doped airplane I like plain old clear dope, some baby powder for filler, and either silkspan (a paper product) and clear dope to adhere the material.
I use both thin and thick CA, carpenter's glue, and 5', 15' and 30' epoxy as the situation warrants. I frequently do the CA-tack-a -spot method with carpenter glue.

3. 4. I don't do electrics.

Lots of ways. Most I don't have a clue.[:o]

6. No electrics here.
Your choice depending on what you're doing with whatever airplane.
I don't worry about prices. I just go to where ever I need to get what I want.
Most kit models will come out some heavier than advertised. Kind of like advertised gas milage on a new car. If you build for active flying, you will most likely do a better building job than a kit shows.
Do the best you are in the mood for and then do as you wish. [8D]

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Let's see here.

1. I never harden the balsa. It needlessly adds weight to the model, unless you're doing some exotic finish. The way our models are built is very strong despite our light building materials. Usually, Monokote or over iron covering will give the lightest results. I've also done fabric/dope and paint and glassing and painting.

2. I only use CA for hardening threads in wood - that's it. All building work is done with wood glue. The finished product ends up being lighter, and the wood glue gives me more time to check everything for exacting alignment. NEVER use CA on anything that you're going to put a covering directly on. Have you ever sheeted anything using CA? Don't. The wood will sand more quickly than the CA, leaving ripples in your finish.

5. Practice, practice, practice. My first airplane looked like a deranged prune. After a couple hundred dollars worth of covering supplies I can now cover almost as well as some ARF's.

7. Tailwheel. I guess you could call me a tailwheel zealot. :) Tail wheel aircraft can be more difficult to learn to takeoff with since you get a very pronounced P-Factor because of the steep angle of attack in the airplane's normal stance.

8. I worry more about service than prices. If a place is cheap but treats me like dirt I'll go elsewhere - even if they would give me a 50% discount. Horizon Hobby and Tower Hobbies have always been great to me. Sure, there are cheaper places, but those two get rewarded for good business practices. Otherwise we're in a race for the bottom - bottom price AND service/quality.

9. Yes. There's not much I ever reinforce. Sure, you must treat any non-reinforced models very gently, but they'll fly so much better at a lighter weight.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Thank you all, this information is very helpful. :) Well this is my forth plane. First was a foamy which caught fire do to, an over size battery. The second was a PT-40, nice trainer, but my club only flies nitro on Saturday mornings and I have to work. So all I get is field time for Electric. The third was an try at a Miss America till I realized it was only three channel. I didn't have enough knowledge at the time to put them in. The club is heavy into SAM, old time free-flight planes, converted to 3 channel RC. SOoooo I need an electric to train on. I love to build these planes, Started a scratch building of a Mr. Mulligan, been at it for three months. I'm started a Cloud Ranger by Herr. Nice little plane. Top wing, 42 inch wing span, Engine Size: .049 to .061 cu. in. Wing Area: 324 sq. in. Wing Loading: 7.1-11.8 oz/ sq. ft. Weight: 16-22 oz. She’s almost finished. I'll need your help selecting a Motor and all. Will post what I have done using your advise. Oh! I stopped double gluing. :D

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

ORIGINAL: Dillion

Teach us beginners how you do things. Would you answer a few of these questions. Mostly for beginners we are constructing 40 size planes.

1. After putting a kit together what do you harden the wood with? I was using spray lacquer.
I have tried Balsarite but found it only added weight. Now I don't use anything. Lighter always flies better. I use finishing epoxy or alcohol thinned epoxy for fuelproofing the firewall and tank compartment.
2. Do you use CA glue for everything? I use CA to hold parts till I can get Carpenters Glue on it. I like the new Gorilla Yellow Glue. Seems stronger than Bordons.
I like CA for fastening ribs in jigged-up wings but mostly use carpenter's glue (Titebond II). Note that adding yellow or white glue AFTER ca is a mistake. The carpenters glue needs to be added before the parts are put together and bare wood will soak it in better. Use one or the other.
3. Where’s is the best information on finding Electric combinations. Can any battery be used with any setup. Seems it just adds more power or are there ESC concerns? I s there a rule of thumb for selecting a motor verses weight or wing load?
Not a clue. IMHO there is no good electric power for models. Too quiet. :-D
4. Landing gear. Do we need them on small, under 48” wind span planes. The props are plastic, the planes weigh under two pounds and there’s no chance of actually doing a rolling landing. Is there?
Adding landing gear allows take-offs and landings. If you're happy tossing to launch and tumbling to land I guess you don't need them.
5. How in the world do you guys get those wonderful graphics on your planes. I do simple things like a star or triangle by cutting film and Appling it with Top Flights’ Trim Solvent.
Practice, practice, practice. Get a pamphlet like "There Are No Secrets" or others of the Harry Higley series. This is too big a topic for a few paragraphs. The "proper" technique is to cut the covering and assemble on a smooth, flat surface like a pane of glass and then apply the assembled pattern to the model. Easier to buy Vinyl graphics and trim tapes and stick them on. Use a fine needle, not a pin, to poke the air bubbles out. Lots of the best looking models are painted and/or airbrushed.
6. Do you guys reinforce these light eigh electric planes with any bass wood. They seem so light and often crack their noses or wings on landing. Yes just a beginner here.
I avoid electrics altogether :-D
7. Tail Dragger or Tripod landing gear?
Yes
8. Online hobby shop? Where’s the best prices. I use Tower, RCHobby Online, Hobby Lobby and Hobby City. Hobby City actually takes to long coming from China and the freight charges will kill you.
I joined the Toweer Club and save on freight & no sales tax. Worth it for me.
9. Is building heavy always a bad thing for beginners. My plane called for it to be 17oz. Mine is 21oz. I must of reinforced it in to many places.
Lighter ALWAYS flies better. Building light and strong can be a challenge, but you'd be surprised how strong balsa under stretched Monokote can be.
Okay Thank you in advance to anyone who will answer a few of these questions and get us rookies on track. Thanks
:)

Happy to help.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Okay, maybe I don’t understand this graphics procedure. Would someone explain it to me. Heres what I did. I drew a letter I wanted to use. Copied it and cut it out of black Monocoat. Then took a can and cut around it to make a black background circle. So far so good. The used a smaller can and cut a white circle out. Now I sprayed Windex on a pane of glass and flattened the black circle. Then coated the black circle with Trim Solvent. Placed the white circle on top. What a mess, white goop all over the black. Then coated the white circle and placed the letter in the circle. More of a mess. Let it stand for a few minutes and whipped off the goop. Created more goop. The white had what appeared to be transparent spots which showed the black through. I know this can’t be right. Someone correct my procedure please. (Should I let each layer dry completely ?)

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Start with http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=726 for the basics and then http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_60.../tm.htm#603331 for "The Windex Method".

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Trim solvent is very powerful, it will wash away colored monokote adhesive like a flood if too much is used. Too much being more than a que-tip dipped into the solvent then wiped thoroughly with a paper towel before applying to the edges. Really, a little goes a long way. The reason you have transparent spots is because the trim solvent washed away the adhesive which contains the color. I would completely avoid the trim solvent and use the windex method as described in Bruce's link. Windex will work much better, although it takes a bit more time. It doesn't eat away the color.

Edited for spelling.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Ready for another stupid question? I’m hooking up the electronics of this Cloud Ranger. I have an ESC, battery and a motor, which I don’t want to hook up just yet. Can I test my servos without hooking up the Motor? Here’s what I’ve done so far. Soldered wires for the battery, plugged the ESC into the receiver and then plugged servos into the receive. Nothing, Seems like the motor must be hooked up. Question there are three wirers for the motor labeled Mode 1 (Red), Mode 2 (White), and Mode 3 (Black). Do I just connect the Black and white to the motor and what is the white wire for ?. I may actually get this plane ready by Sunday with all this help. Thanks.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

I don't know much about elec planes but I do know that ESC is for an AC motor and NOT a DC motor. All 3 wires must be connected on an AC motor. Beyond that someone else will check in I'm sure.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Can't help with the motors but I have dabbled in trim solvent. As mentioned, a little goes a LONG ways. The color of Monokote is in the adhesive on the backside and the solvent eats it away in a hurry.

The rudder on my Contender 60 I futzed around with trim solvent. It has held up, but it was a mess.

I made a diagonal striping of yellow under orange using Windex and the results are much better. Squeege out the excess with a plastic card (the dumb bogus credit cards that come in the mail are perfect) with a piece of tissue over the card to prevent scratching. A piece of thin balsa sheet works well, too. As you can see - no bubbles.

The "L" on the same model is Monokote. The A & F were from the self adhesive letters that came in the kit. ("LAF" reminds me not to take this too seriously). Again, applied with the Windex method.

I know one professional coverer who won't use more than a 1/8" overlap with Monokote (or other coverings). His solution in your circles problem would have been to do hollow rings for the outer colors and a solid inner circle; then punch a gozillion pin holes in the covering under where it will be applied and iron the "ring assembly" in place. No solvent.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Well I'm in the middest of this little logo for the tail. I put the pieces together as you say with Windex. I hope this isn't a joke. Anyway, come morning we'll see whats going on. I have it stuck to a piece of glass. I plan on lifting the circle off the glass and windex it to the rudder. Still is hard to believe .......Windex!
By the way very nice covering and piece job on the LAF and the stripes.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

One thing to remember, and this messes up more guys than may care to admit it, is to remove the clear covering from the back of the Monokote before applying it (but after cutting it). You're doing that or you wouldn't have had a mess with the solvent.

Windex works for boat name graphics, window decals, etc. A few drops of detergent in water in a spritzer bottle works, too. Squirt just enough to dampen the surface, slide on the decal/letter, position it with your fingers, squeege out the water, blot dry (carefully), then iron on with heat after 24 hours or so.

It's really important to start with a clean and dust free model surface. Windex and a clean rag for that.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

ME ME ME!! I'm not too good to admit it! :D

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Not a whole lot to add here, but a couple of comments I haven't seen mentioned already:

#5 : Graphics

Couple of comments here.

First of all, check out your local sign shops. I've had VERY good luck with "Signs Now". You can design your own graphics on the computer, scale them to the size you want, and then take a CD of them up to most sign shops. Ask them to print the graphics on clear vinyl, and coat them with a UV protectant. I can usually get an 8x10 sheet done for < $10. Spent < $50 for ALL the decals/logos on my 1/3rd scale Jim LeRoy Bulldog.

Be aware, MOST shops can't cut real fine edges and such, and those that DO have the equipment will charge an arm and a leg for it...so either stick with larger graphics that don't have a lot of detail, or be prepared to do some tedious hand cutting. If you go with the latter, use a NEW sharp blade, and replace it OFTEN.

Another tip for single color stuff, like larger lettering or what not, is to grab Andrew Donatelli's "Tileprint" software. It's available at http://www.blackflight.com/tileprint/ and WELL woth the $16 price tag. This little gem will take ANY .JPG and "tile" it over multiple sheets of paper through your printer, complete with alignment marks on the corners. Just print the text/graphic, and then tape it down to a cutting board over some Ultracote/Monokote, and use an X-Acto to cut the pattern. It's a GREAT way to get nifty "starbursts", or "large" (an inch tall or better) lettering, or things of that nature cut out with nice clean edges.

#9 : Weight

Light is better. :) But several have told you that.

The trick to BUILDING light is to look for places where you're adding unnecessary weight.

Glue - nearly EVERYONE uses too much. You'll be amazed at how little glue it takes to make a strong bond if pieces fit flush together, and the glue is given sufficient time to truly cure, and not just "set up". Do some experiments in your shop, and you'll likely find you can use half as much as you've been using. This is especially true with wood glues and epoxies. Doesn't sound like much, but immagine if you could save simply an ounce per wing. That'd be HALF of your 4 oz "overage" you mentioned in the OP.

Reinforcement - Play around in your shop and read online about various 'material strengths' and such. You'll find that various woods are VERY strong with the grain running one way, and weak another. Or, you'll find that some materials resist compression (pushing together) much better (or maybe worse) than they resist tension (pulling apart), or twisting. Play around with different woods, CF, plastic, etc. Heck, even some foams have a 'grain" to them. You can learn where, in some places, perhaps a thin strip of material with high tension strength could replace a larger "plate" of a different material.

Balancing - Be creative when trying to move the CG of a model. Remember the math of weights and balances:

Weight * Arm = Moment

So, a 2 oz weight 6inches from the CG has a 12 ozin moment. You could get EXACTLY the same effect to balance with a 1oz weight 12in away, or a 3oz weight 4 in away.

The point here is, with a little engineering and creativity, you can often move servos, batteries, ESC's, even wires around, and NOT HAVE TO ADD DEAD WEIGHT to balance a model. I've made significant differences to foamies simply by crafting longer control rods, and moving servos 2-3" one way or another.

===================

Hope some of that helps!

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Okay my Teachers. The little Cloud Ranger is all together, will cover her tonight. She's coming out to be 22 oz. on the nose. I wired the ESC and the motor works fine. The motor is so small so I want to ask if you think this motor will lift her airboure. Motor Specs: Turnigy C2230-1780kv web sitehttp://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5385
Specifications. Weight: 27g Power: 98W Kv: 1780rpm/v Turns: 15 Resistance: 642 Idle Current: .7A Max amp: 15A
Voltage: 2-4cell Lipoly. I'm using a 8xAAA cell Ni-Mh 9.6V 650mAh Battery which seems to turn it nicely. My ESC is a 18v (MAG8 which I'm sure means nothing) I was told from the web site that a 7-6 or 8-4 prop works well. I need to know from you guys if this setup sounds like it will fly. I do have a large motor if not.
I surely hope I can get a handle on all of this and be a teach some day. Thanks Guys

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

I hate threads that don't show you an answer after asking for something, so heres how I wired my motor. It all works well. Three wires to the motor, Black/Red/Yellow, using bullet connectors. Soldered Black/Red wirers to a battery plug and plugged the servo connector to the throttle channel. Da-daaaa Thats it.

RE: Share your Construction Techniques Expertise.
 

Anyone know how to set this switch up. It has two sets of Black/Red servo plugs coming out of one side and one set of Black/Red wires with servo plug coming out of the other. I can use it to insect my motor as that has three wires. The plug for the battery is different. So? Anyone?