aileron to main wing gap
 

ok, once again asking for help on something!.............last night i made the leap and wicked on my first aileron to the wing. took it slowly, wicked the CA in good an proper etc etc...........

heres my question, when all is said and done i have a uniform 4mm gap between the wing and aileron with the "hole in the middle" type ca hinges...........is this ok? or have i left too much of a gap between? i certainly hope it's not the later, cause if it is i need to know what to do next!!!! the aileron is on good and tight and there is good movement on it.

all help appreciated!! many thanks.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Icarus, 4mm is a bit of a big gap, but on a trainer, it may be fine. It is possible to seal the gap with covering, but that process is probably no easier than cutting and re-hinging.

I would probably give it a try as-is. At low speeds, it will probably work just fine.

Where do you plan on flying? I fly at the 495th field in Tewksbury.

Good luck

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

4mm is quite large. But don't worry about it, just seal the gap with covering or Scotch Tape after it's finished and you'll be fine.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

hi mclina, i haven't flown yet! this is my first plane (flew helos for quite a while)............once i get this thing built i'll get my AMA and then join a club. i have been looking at either the 495th, or burlington which is a bit closer, joning and getting instructor teaching!!

back to the gap........can you explain what you mean by covering and how i would do it? i really am a little lost here and a bit p***ed at myself for leaving such a gap!!

thanks!

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

I haven't done it myself, but if you do a search on "sealing hinge gap", you'll probably find some good info. Basically, I think that you deflect the hinge as far as possible, then iron a strip of covering down into the groove.

I bet that Minnflyer has some fantastic pictures.

I was worried about the gap on my recent rebuild, and it is probably 2mm or less. I am still trying to decide if it is worth sealing.

The 495th does training on Thursday nights. My kids are still training, so we try to make it as often as we can.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

mclina, Fly the plane. If you think you need a faster roll rate, try sealing the gaps. If you like the way it flies as is, don't bother.

icarus, To seal the gap, as mclina said, deflect the aileron as far as it will go (Work from the bottom of the wing with no pushrod attached) and either add a "V" shaped strip of clear tape, or a strip of covering. Tape is a little difficult to get in there because it wants to stick to everything it touches, but covering has to be ironed down once it's in there, so pick your poison.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

thanks mclina and minnflyer.............

so i would only cover on the bottom edge, not the top, is that correct? i have plenty of room to wiggle so i may try the cleaar tape way first! anything else i should know before embarking on my corrective action?

thanks.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Yes, do it on the bottom, just so it doesn't show.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Sometimes it goes easy and sometimes not but...the easiest way I've found to seal the hinge gaps has been:

1) clean the gap surfaces with denatured alcohol first.
2) cut a strip of monokote the length and width of the gap you wish to seal.
3) making certain you know which side of the strip is the backing, slowly work a crease the full length of the strip.
4) pull the control surface back as far as it will go firmly and tape in place.
5) pull off the backing and using a ruler in the crease, firmly press in the strip to the gap. Your hinges will keep it from pushing thru. Iron down one side full length. Fold ruler down to shield the side you just ironed down and iron down the other side.

It helps to dance around a bit until the full strip is across the gap and seated all the way down. Once done, set the ruler aside and run your iron full length of the gap again on both sides paying close attention to burnishing the edges in good. This will cause the material to shift a bit but usually it all straightens up very nice.

When it doesn't, peel it out and discard. Walk away, get a coke and relax. Go back and try again when you feel ready. :D

You don't have to seal the gaps but if you just make it a habit you'll never have to wonder if the plane would respond better if you sealed the gaps!

Regards,

Clay

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

looks like i screwed up royally there!

so, on this subject, i only set in one of the ailerons...........should i seat the other in properly as it should be, or do another 4mm on the other side to keep the lines uniform??? can't believe i did this! what a pain..........!!

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

icarius98,

I've done the same thing even after thinking I was being very careful. Its especially easy to do while flexing down a long control surface like a strip aileron. And every time I've done it I really hated the thought of cutting it all loose and trying to cut new slots. But it always bugs me and finally I just take my xacto knife and cut them all off.

First, don't sweat it. You haven't hurt anything.

Second, do a search for Radio South hinges. They are the best CA hinge you can get. Thin and stiff and reliable. They make two sizes. Order a package of each. (Most are blue although sometimes I've received some white ones and sometimes a strip that you cut to length yourself) I have some of their stuff going back 20 years and some I purchased last year.

You CAN cut perfectly good slots with your #11 Xacto knife but let me tell you first hand, the great planes slot machine is a really neat doodad and its fun to use.

You also can cut a slot right over the old hinge just fine. But I always sprinkle some into new wood areas just to be safe.

Bet if you don't do this its gonna keep bugging you till you do. And even if you get a nice tight gap the next time, seal the gap on the bottom anyway. All surfaces. Monokote is less expensive and goes on monokote and oracover just fine as long as you clean with alcohol first. I picked up some clear just to do the gaps and not have to worry with matching the base color.

Now if I could just remember which side is which! :D

Regards,

Clay

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

I'd do the other side correctly. Get used to doing it right. Then if all goes well you COULD consider simply cutting off the hinges on the bad side and installing new ones adjacent to the old ones. Not needed but doable.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Ditto to what Bruce said.

As far as what Clay said...


You should never put a new CA hinge where an old one was. Thin CA works on a capillary principle. That means it needs tiny pores to seep into. Once a CA Hinge has been installed, that area's pores have been sealed and thin CA will not get a good enough hold.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Its why I also sprinkle some hinges in new wood areas as well. However, having seen this discussed over the years I finally tried it for myself in some scrap.

Couldn't tell the difference. I don't know if its because I went back with the Radio South (blue) material or not but it held securely. No, I don't trust it enough to rely upon it solely but atleast I can stablilize that section of the control surface when better spacing isn't possible. And that is the only time I've felt the need to do it.

Perhaps you'll test it yourself in some scrap sometime?

Regards,

Clay

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

I totally understand your situation Clay, and I can understand why you do it - it's a good idea to have hinges in the optimal location. I just wanted to emphasize WHY it is not a good practice.

However, doing it Clay's way WILL be ok PROVIDING you add a few additional hinges for extra protection.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

hey guys,

thankyou all for the info..........i think i will cut off the bad side, cut new slots, get new hinges and re-wick.........i really am not too amused with myself on this, have to be honest!!!

so to do the re-hinge deal i need to cut new slots in the wing right? how far off from the originals and what kind of positioning for them? will this effect it in flight?

many thanks all!

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

While it will be a bit of a pain, you will be glad you took the time to re-hinge your aileron. Besides, there's plenty of time before we see the runway in these parts.

I would go about 1/2" away from each existing hinge location. Just try not to leave too much 'overhang' past the last hinge on either end.

Good luck.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Have you read http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=55 ??

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

hi bruce/mclina,

bruce - yes i had read that and i had even printed to read as i did the wicking, reading carefully before, during and after..........no excuse for my own stupidity there!

mclina - how right you are, i am watching the snow fall as we speak! yet another 6" of that lovely white stuff!!! can you explain a little more about the "overhang" thing you mentioned please? i'm not quite sure i fully understand what you mean there.........p.s. nice to see a local on the boards, i've never seen anyone from these parts here on the boards! perhaps you could PM me so we could talk further, exchange phone#'s in case i have another dilemma at 8pm? having someone local that could help in these newbie days would help me greatly, as you can see!

thanks all!

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

By 'overhang', I just meant that you don't want your last hinge to be too far from the end of the aileron. As long as you are within 2-3 inches or so, you should be fine.

And I'd be happy to send you a PM with my contact info. I've only been at this for about 2 years, but I have learned a ton.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

icarius98,

You'll have to look at your own installation. What you should consider is that CA will only give you its best when the fit is good and on surfaces that have not been previously exposed to CA, oil, grease, or wax. CA doesn't penetrate deeply but it will migrate rapidly.

When you cut your aileron free from the trailing edge of the wing you'll better be able to inspect the slots and previous hinge material imbedded. If the slots are off center you may be able to reslot that segment of the wing properly centered this time and have new wood meeting new hinge. But this would have to be true for the trailing edge of the wing AND the mating control surface. Also consider the spacing so as to best support the control surface. Most of the time you are not going to have too many hinges but no need adding any more than needed either.

The old slot is now filled with a CA soaked hinge and the wood there is very strong. But, if the slot was wider than the hinge the CA probably migrated over that surface, the gap is not supported, and you cannot glue new-to-new. But you might be able to run an emory board or file thru it and rough it up and work some epoxy in it. But that's just unnecessary if you have plenty of new space available. Just set the aileron up to the wing and pencil marks for your new hinge spaces, cut your slots, install new hinges. You will need to take care this time around as you probably won't have room to do it all over a 3rd time. (can you feel the pressure? :D)

The half inch either side is just a safety margin to get new hinge on new wood. Not necessary but its a good idea. If you have some scrap balsa around and some left over hinges I suggest you try making your own slots, installing hinges, let dry, cut, and reinstall both off to the side and directly over the first hinge. Then try pulling them all apart. You'll also be able to dissect and determine how well the CA wicks into the hinge and slot and how much (or little) is needed to keep things together for yourself. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXDZ43&P=8

Just don't rush,

Clay

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

thanks once again all......i will have to make a trip to the LHS to get some supplies and then i'll try again! just can't believe how careful i was being wicking etc and then neglected to watch for the spacing!

live and learn i guess, but above all, even though i haven't even flown yet and i am having these type of teething problems i am loving this plane side of things..........loving it!!!

many thanks all!

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

In case you haven't already been told, it's best to stick a T-pin through the middle of the CA hinge, then slide the hinge into the slots until it is tight against the pin on both surfaces. This will give you maximum hinge area on both sides, and set the gap for you.


Don't be afraid to fit it, test your deflection, adjust, etc., until you are 100% happy before you hit it with the CA.

Good luck

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

There was a reference to using "Scotch Tape" to cover the gap. I don't think that the tape that is commonly referred to as Scotch tape found on millions of office desks is particularly good for this application.

However 3M does make a Scotch brand tape that does work very well for models. It is called their "Decorate and Repair Tape". This is a very flexible plastic tape with an adhesive that holds up very well to the oils in our fuel. While it comes in multiple colors, the Clear works with everything. You can find racks of it in some hardware stores. It is available in 1/2 and 1" wide rolls. I mostly use the 1/2", but quick field repairs of the covering can be made with the wider tape.

Now if you want a really good seal at the control surfaces, then you want to find a tape known as "blenderm" at a medical supply store. It is ultra flexible and extremely thin.

RE: aileron to main wing gap
 

Hi yea fellas just my two cents here you know if you guys use robart hingpoint hinges you get a perfect gap every time and alot better hinge maybe alittle more work but worth it. IMO.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]