Teaching to Build
 

OK this maybe a really STUPID questions to some, but I want to know.

Are their guys that help and teach guys/girls to build RC Planes and RC Jets?

I have never built anything in my life, never picked up tools to work on anything. So I would have no idea where to start on an ARF.

Plan on getting a few aircraft but I am holding off because I do not want to buy them, screw them up and waste money or start them and they never get finished.

Thinking of getting someone to build them for me, but I have been quoted over $6000 in labour for each aircraft and no way on god’s green earth will I paying anyone that.

I am currently in Japan, but will be moving to the UK for a 2 year stay, so I was hoping there is someone in the Birmingham area that can teach me about building RC Aircraft so when I return to Japan I can build the planes I am after.

Tried to find someone here in Japan, but most are over 300 Miles away and then there is language problem which makes it hard, I speak Basic Japanese because everyone I know speaks English, but the guys building RC do not speak a word of English and their Japanese goes over my head faster than a Skymaster F-15 on full throttle!



Advice and help PLEASE.



Aussie in Japan

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Have you started flying yet? It's fine to have a goal of flying jets and other complex aircraft, but the building skills you'll need aren't taught by those models.

Much of the path you take depends on the types of models that you'll eventually want to fly. Are they kits? Are they ARFs? ARFs won't teach you anything about kits, and kits require different skills than ARFs.

There are some things that will be universal, such as the glues you'll use and many of the tools. If space is an issue, build some small Guillows models just to learn about the glues and build some skills with a knife. If space is not an issue, find yourself a trainer, ARF or kit. A trainer kit will teach you to build. Good ones have very detailed instructions and plans, full of tips and how-to type suggestions.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Thanks MikeL,

I am looking at a Kyosho Trainer(RTF) to teach me to Fly then the Kyosho Sports(RTF).

After I want to purchase the following aircraft(ARF)

TBM Zero

Spitfire

Cessna (Gaint Scale)

Comp-AFP Embraer Tucano

Skymaster F-15J

Skymaster F/A-18F



I have looked at the Instruction Manuals for a few of the aircraft and the Electronics, Airlines, Turbines etc, have me going HOLY COW BATMAN ... I learn by hands on. Have never learnt a thing from a Book, Someone teaching me with Hands on and I can learn fast, from a book and my head is done in.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

You may have to go through a couple of those trainers first.

A friend to build with, even if he didn't speak English will be invaluable to you

This friend could teach you to fly in a lot less time than you trying on your own.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

If you cannot find anyone who can help you in Japan, try looking in the different forums here on RCU. Abufletcher lives in Japan, and is a good builder. Once you get to the UK, see if you can find another RCU member, called, Oldgit (AKA John Livingston). The builders won't come and find you, so you have to find them. There are hundreds of RCU members who will be glad to help you learn. If you find a thread that is applicable to the plane that you want to fly, then join in the conversation, and let them know that you are a newbie, and need, (and most importantly), want help.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Teaching to Build
 

F-15J JSDF
QUESTION HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY BUILDING MANUAL'S FROM SOME ONE THAT HAS BUILT A PLANE FROM A KIT THAT WILL GIVE YOU A GOOD IDEA OF HOW TO BUILD A KIT AND WHAT KIND OF GLUE THAT WOULD BE NEEDED OR TOOLS MOST KITS IN THE TRAINER TYPE DO NOT REQUIRE ANY SPECIAL TOOLS OTHER THAN AN X-ACTO KNIFE AND POSSIBLEY A RAZOR SAW I WOULD BE WILLING TO HELP YOU WITH ANY TYPE OF BUILDING QUESTIONS YOU HAVE SEND ME A E-MAIL SOME TIME

JIM

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I've done a build thread on a LT-40 trainer where I tired to show the building process so that hopefully it would help people learn to build. Take a look through it and hopefully it will help you out.

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3439708/tm.htm]Sig LT-40 Build Thread[/link]

Ken

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Thanks guys for the replies and advice.

I have down loaded Manuals from the shops selling the aircraft like the Zero and the Skymasters Jets, read them, re read them, and they have still done my head it.

Give me an assault weapon and I can strip the thing and put it back together with my eyes closes, 21 years in the military and high risk protection. Firearms is all I know.

Give my a ARF plane to build and I am LOST, well at the moment I am anyway.




Think I will buy a few Trainer ARF and pratice building them and see if they break apart in flight, before moving on the the list of Aircraft I want.


Will have a look at the Sig Thread also ...

RE: Teaching to Build
 

RCKen and MinnFlyer have created videos that go step by step through the constuction of a trainer kit. I think they are great videos. There are many great tips. They also take a lot of the "fear" out of building a plane.

http://www.gettingairborne.com/videos.html

RE: Teaching to Build
 

A kit or an Arf are no different than an assult weapon;) Each part has a place and you just fit them where they belong. As has been stated, find a build thread that fits what you want to build and get involved. Ask questions and don't be afread to try some thing.
I hated the old M-1, the BAR. and 30cal mg[:@] kits have more parts and ARF's just need to be joined together.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

That would happen to anyone that doesn't have any building experience. The more advanced the model, the more the writer of the instructions assumes that you know. Building models is much like flying them. In order to be successful, you have to start with the simple things and learn the fundamental skills involved before progressing to more advanced activities.

Don't get intimidated by your goals, but at the same time don't expect to be able to just jump right into the deep end of the pool. Take the time to progress in a way that allows you to be successful.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Live Wire & MikeL,

I might try and team up with someone in the UK when I touch down and get them to show me the ropes. I am more for the ARF then kits. My Goal is Skymaster Jets.

But I will start simple as it is better to NOT dive in the DEEP end if you can not swim as you have stated.

So at the moment I might just keep to learning to Fly before I start building, there seems to be more builders and pilots in the UK then here in Japan. Well for Jets anyway, most in Japan have the 3D type planes and I am not interested in them what so ever, more War Birds / Jet Fighters type of guy!


_Chuck_,

I tried the link for the Videos and the page will not open. Maybe it is my ISP that is causing the problem.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Only wish to state that you goals are very distant so be patient. What you wish are the more difficult of aircraft, warbirds and jets. The prices you mentioned for having them built apparantly were for large very scale aircraft. so forget them.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

$6000 was for LABOUR only .. that did not include the Aircraft or scaled parts .... I fell off my seat ...

It seems as soon as you tell people you live in Japan the PRICE goes through the ROOF ... it is NOT the first time this has happen ...

People think you live in Japan you must be loaded with cash. [:@] ...

I decided to build a EV Bike, the motors and controlers from the US company was priced at $1300 which was stated on their website, but once I said I was in Japan the PRICE DOUBLED to $2600 plus postage on top another $1000[:@] total came to $3600 all because I am in Japan, the company claimed it was because of the Exchange rate, which is RUBBISH ... Decided to order the parts from Taiwan at 1/3 of the price.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

The "old fashioned" way was to start with the cheapest of Gillows or Proctor kits (rubber-band powered or free flight) and teach yourself following their instructions. Takes about 12 models of increasing difficulty and you'll be ready for anything.


I don't know anyone who gives building instructions professionally. But I know dozens and dozens of guys who will help you with tips, suggestions, kibbitzing and advice. Our club is full of them and so was my former club A local Explorer post arranged for four of our club members to build Sig LT-40s (in teams of four students per instructor) and it was one of the most enjoyable things I've ever done with R/C. If you can find a club and mentor to clamp ont who could show you some of the basics it would be (IMHO) the best way to get introduced to building.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

This is very good advice
This is how most of us got started

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Yes, but most of us were 5 or 6 when we started to glue sticks together.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Well, I guess you are right. My dad built models and I started out at 6

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I came from a broken home and the stepfather I got was a right **** so never learnt anything from the ******, but that is another story.


I have build a Westfield and a AC Cobra but they are cars and I had mates help with the builds, at the moment building a Electric Bike called the Cheetah

This is my Electrical Diagram for the bike

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...e/89c8e353.jpg


But this stuff is easy for me ...

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Me too, I was about 6 but I was building the plastic models, Bipes for the most part. I wanted to know if he was wanting to learn to assemble ARFs or build kits?? It's easy to teach ARF assembly to someone but teaching kit building takes a lot more time. I still have a coupld of Gillows out in my shop for people wanting to learn how to build. Anyone wanting to assemble an ARF I have them buy there own plane then I will teach them, that doesn't take much as much time.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

If you've done all the stuff you are talking about you should have no problem a good ARF.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

No kidding!!!!!!

RE: Teaching to Build
 

So building a ARF is not going to be as bad as I think then??

RE: Teaching to Build
 

For us it is the same old same old.

They all go through the same routine like disassembly/reassembly of a rifle

RE: Teaching to Build
 

OK well thanks for all the advice ... Will email people if I come across problems, will wait until I get to the UK and join a club to learn to fly and with any luck some guys will be building ARF and will let me watch and learn. At 41 I must be getting in to the hobby at a late age, looking at most on here they have been in it for a long time.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I've been building for 59 years and the guys I fly with have been in it that long but there are many that have just been in it 2 or 3 yrs and they do just fine. They run their own show.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

It would be hard to tell anyone without showing them but the price you were quoted was way out of line. A person that has put a few planes together can assemble an ARF plane about 60" in 2 to 8 hours depending on what plane it is and who makes it. Most RC fliers are great people that will do everything possible to help others enter this sport. try posting in other places to see if you can find builders and fliers in your area. If they have clubs over their talk to members. If there are hobby shops there the owners will usually be happy to put you in contact with the people that can and will help you.

I can tell you that here in the USA there are many many people that are always ready to help. I wish you luck, don't give up there is someone out there ready to help you. You spoke of the military many times there are others in the military that are fliers don't be reluctant to ask if anyone knows someone that can help

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Not me. I finished up a Cox Giles 202 in perhaps 15 hours this year, and just spent 6 hours on a Kyosho Flip. I expect the Flip to take me another 10 hours or so. Heck, it took me almost two hours just to get the covering the way I like it.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I am reading the instruction manual for the TBM Zero and I am thinking that will take me 3 months to build. The biggest worry is the Landing Gear.

I have down loaded every photo of the TBM Zero one of the guys on here has built .. and the cutting of this and that, changing this and that because it is not right, is what gets me alittle worried. Cutting in to wings for Servos, Push Rods etc ... Thinking if I take it SLOW then I should NOT screw it up.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Start out with some trainers. They are more simple

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Methinx we're getting a bit complicated and "over-flustered" here.

F-15J_JSDF,

First, let me say this...I'm living proof that you don't need to start out "gluing sticks together when you're 6" or anything like that. I didn't "build" an airplane until I was in my 30's (save for plastic models to put on the shelf)....and THAT was hardly an "airplane" or "building" since it was an electric foamy!

Nor is it true that ARFs won't teach you about kits, nor kits about ARFs.

The very foundation of everything about RC airplanes is this:

We're talking about airplanes. They do (or don't do, as the case may be) what airplanes do for the reasons airplanes do them. That is to say, there are certain things that are simply true of airplanes...for example, they like it if their wings are nice and straight, not warped or twisted. You don't need to be "a kit builder" to learn that lesson.

Now, clearly, based on the experiences you've shared in other engineering/design/construction efforts, you have the ability to read and follow instructions. That's ALL it takes.

As others have suggested...this forum is FULL of folks who will offer advice, tips, tricks, and techniques if you just ask.

Be patient enough, give yourself a chance at success, and select one of the many quality ARF trainers out there. Open the box, lay everything out, and just GO SLOW. The instructions of quality ARFs are STEP BY STEP. Indeed, many of them will tell you in the early pages what tools and supplies you'll need to complete construction. if some of them are unfamiliar to you, or if you think perhaps another tool could do the job...ASK! Come to this very beginners forum and say "Hey...they say I'll need some left handed muffler grease. Where do I get that??"

The point is...don't over complicate this. Many of today's ARFs can be assembled with NO prior experience, and produce a model that gives you a reasonable shot have flying it successfully. Don't get yourself worked up for no reason.

If you will :

1) Select an appropriate model
2) Take your time
3) Make yourself perform each step as well as you can.
4) Ask questions on this forum ANY time you're unsure of things.

I'd bet you'll do just fine.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I must admit that I have been building panes since 1966 a few years ago I put this plane to gather in about 3 = 4 hours http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCAS2&P=ML I bought the RTF version for a friend about 2 years ago, my friend knew nothing about RC airplanes. I went to his house and showed him how to finish the job on this same plane. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXCXF4**&P=ML it took less than 1 hour to finish this plane. With the discounts I recieved at the time my cost was $215.00 and that included plane, mounted engine, mounted radio equipment, everything.

Even this plane can take a new beginner 10 to 20 hours to build if it is the first time building. Planes that took me a week to build 40 years ago now would take less then 5 hours to build. If a person is an experienced builder it won't take them a long time to build or to teach someone else how to build. I built my first RC plane in 1968 it was a 72" low wing from a kit. I worked on it about 2 = 4 hours each day for about 1 month. When I was finished I still didn't understand how to install the radio gear. A foreman at my work place was a flier, I ask some questions about how to install the gear. He set up a time for me to come to his house. He showed me how to install everything it took about 4 hours (remember this was not an ARF this was a kit). This same man took me out and taught me how to fly the plane. And there were many other fliers in this area that were just as nice as this man was. He didn't charge one penny for his time and effort not that I was not willing to pay, because I would have been happy to pay. Most fliers and builder love what they are doing, maybe the new generation is different. But there are still some old timers like me age 64 that have a great love for this sport and love to help others get into it.

Your first plane will take a lot longer but each time you build you learn more and get faster at building. The point I'm trying to make is it gets much easier with time. when I started out building and flying RC seamed impossible to me also. If you can find a club of a person that flies and or builds most of them will teach you. Even if they charge you $100.00 to $300.00 dollars to build the ARF for you have them let you watch. After watching a person build a plane you come to under stand it's not that hard to do. I like building almost as well as I do flying and many fliers feel the same way I do.

I can't tell you about Japan I've never been there but people are people all over the world. And where ever you go there will be some good people that will help you.
Have you tried contacting the AMA they may be able to give you some help in finding clubs or fliers in your area? http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama.aspx

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I didn't know crap about building, but picked up a Tower 40 trainer ARF and put that together. It had easy to follow instructions, and when I was done, the instructor took a close look at it, made a few observations, then put it up in the air. It flew just fine, and I started to learn to fly with that plane.

If you start out slowly, and read the directions, part A goes here, apply a little CA then move to part B.. well, not quite that way, but it seemed that. After a while, you almost take the things for granted, ARF's that is.

Kit building is fine too. You can easily go from the basic to somewhat complex in a few quick steps. I would start out with an ARF to get the idea of how they are constructed, then, if you want, move into a kit and put that together. You will find that it isn't all that difficult, and in fact, you can attach some ownership and pride for the finished product.

Best of luck.

CGr

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Living in Japan you should have no problem finding a Kyosho Calamato trainer. They are really good trainers.
After that I would suggest that you buy a proper kit to learn how to build your own aircraft. Aircraft that comes to mind that are of excellent quality are the SIG's 4-star 40 and LT-25. Both are easy to build and the building instructions are excellent. Also there is a lot of experience amongst the RCU community with these aircraft so help is always at hand.

Happy building (and flying)!

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I'd like you to explain this to me. I think it's wrong, and that's just a product of my experience. I've never had an ARF that required sanding, shaping, and covering, not to mention all of the different building techniques that many of us use. Nor have I had a kit that required the knowledge of which hardware to junk, how to properly inspect for damage or poor glue joints, how to know which areas appear suspect and in need of reinforcement, and even very simple things such as stripping covering without damaging the underlying structure. It's all well and good to claim that the finished airplanes have the same basic needs for proper flight, but it's a misrepresentation to claim that building one type teaches all of the skills needed for the other.

Much depends on what a person's goals are. Building is no different than flying in that regard. The skills that are deliberately taught with the more basic models develop progressively as a person advances. Kits and ARFs teach different skills. If a person has a goal to build very advanced kits, building only ARFs along the way simply won't prepare them. I think the same is true for ARFs, to a degree. The more advanced the ARF, the more the manufacturer assumes that the person knows.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Mike I agree with what you are saying. I started out with 1/2A control line planes then went to larger control line planes later to go to RC each new type of plane was a challenge. Every plane a person builds help them understand the next plane. I think ARF are perhaps the easiest to build, however I can build and assemble a scratch built foam plane for electric in a very short time and even install the radio. But with many of them you only glue 10 = 12 peaces together sometimes less.But the electric is another story. This is always a learning process. After building for more than 40 years there are still questions I would have with some planes. Jets and helicopters are a different story again. When we talk about how easy it is to build what many of us mean is it is easy to build, easy to build airplanes

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I a bit confused by the original poster's first post that said he "never picked up tools to work on anything", and post #19 where he "build a Westfield and a AC Cobra", but never the less....

Building a simple kit, like a Four Star 40, or putting together a basic ARF does not take a tremendous amount of inherent skill. If you go with a good manufacturer, like Sig or Great Planes, you will get an excellent instruction manual with detailed photos of every step. in addition, any of these popular models have been built and documented here on RC Universe dozens of times. I would consider RCU to be the best teacher you are likely to find.

I had never built an RC plane before buying a Four Star 40 kit, and I was able to build it by myself in a few weeks and it flew great. My advice is to just pick a popular trainer model (LT-40, PT-40, Goldberg Falcon, H9 Alpha, etc...) and just go for it. Most are available as kits or ARFs, and you will find tons of information here at RCU for any of them.

One thing to keep in mind if you are building planes and then relocating to another country, completed planes are diffficult to ship, so if you build a plane in Japan, you will likely want to sell it or give it away before you leave. That's another reason to keep the first build to a simple trainer.

Good luck. I think you will find it much easier than you think, and any question you have will be answered by fellow RCUer's within minutes.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

I'd argue that a great many ARFs DO require exactly the skills you mention:

Every ARF I've owned has needed ONE of those skills to produce a high quality model. Covering? A great many of them need that skill or some of those techniques to tighten up covering, tack down some that's come loose, seal gaps, etc. Sanding? I've lost track of how many tail groups I've sanded for a precise fit on ARFs. Shaping? Is cutting a cowl to fit a particular powerplant not "shaping"?

You go on to say:

You've never had a kit come with hardware? You don't examine your own glue joints for quality, or the wood in the kit for damage? You've never modified a kit to reinforce some areas, or lighten others? You've never had to recover an ARF due to color preference, crash damage, or shipping damage?

The things you mention as being "specific" to one or the other are ABSOLUTELY part of each.

Let's take your glue joint example:

You say you don't have to inspect a kit for poor glue joints, but do inspect ARFs for this issue.

I'll ask, then...WHY do you inspect ARFs? Is it because you have learned, through kit building, the properties of a reliable and strong glue joint? If so, then clearly your kit experience taught you something about ARF assembly. Possibly several somethings. Perhaps kit building taught you where glue joints tend to fail, so you inspect those areas more closely, or first, on an ARF. Perhaps it taught you the outwardly visible signs of a poor or quality glue joint, so you now look for those signs in ARFs. Perhaps it taught you the cost of glue joint failure, making you more dilligent when inspecting ARFs.

Maybe it's the other way? Maybe you had an ARF with poor glue joints, the failure of which cost you an airplane. While this certainly would make you more likely to check such things in the future, would it not also stress the importance of the process when kit building?

=======================

The original point was, and remains...Airplanes do what they do for the reasons airplanes do them. While it's obvious that kit building is a different overall skillset from ARF assembly, the FUNDAMENTALS that make one successful at either endeavor remain the same. Perhaps in one arena you're "performing a task", while in the other inspecting to ensure another person performed it to your standards...but recognition of the importance of the task, the signs of quality work, and methods of repairing poor work are shared between both arenas.

Indeed, I'd even go so far as to suggest that experience in one arena IMPROVES your skills in another.

A recently released ARFs can teach a builder quite a bit about new techniques and materials that save time, weight, or cost. The builder may or may not choose to employ them, but they are a fine example of their use in a production machine. Building, as well, can aid in one's ARF assembly in knowing some of the critical areas to examine, techniques for modification/repair, or understanding of structural considerations.

===================

In short, I would NEVER suggest that assembling ARFs can teach you to be a kit builder, or that building can teach you to assemble ARFs. But remember...what I said was that each could teach you ABOUT the other. A straight, true wing is a better flying wing, whether your building skills taught you to inspect for that, and how to correct it if problems are found, or your ARF assembly revealed to you a new method of achieving it on your next kit.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

No, that's cutting a cowl. You're not shaping anything there - - you're trying to make cutouts that are precise as possible. When I think of shaping, I think of sanding a leading edge, creating a rounded nose from a block of balsa, ect. That isn't done with too many ARFs. When it comes to covering, you're talking about touch-up skills for ARFs, not cutting, fitting, and applying covering from a roll. Again, they're very different skills.

You're trying to apply broad terms to very specific skills. Of the kits that I've had that come with hardware, the hardware has usually been of a quality that is acceptable to me. That's especially true with today's kits, which are generally sold with high-quality hardware or no hardware. ARFs have a much, much broader range of hardware included.

Inspecting as you build is far different from inspecting an ARF. As you build, you have access to each area. You're doing the work yourself, and have control over the process. With an ARF, you're looking at just what you can see or feel. That's rather different. Same with deciding what to reinforce. You don't have a set of plans to look at and evaluate. You can't make structural changes in the same way as you can with a kit. And no, I've never recovered an ARF due to color preference. Crash damage, sure. But repairing ARFs is also different from repairing a model you've built yourself.

I'm not sure why you would put forth so much effort to try and say that the skills involved are the same. They plainly are not, unless a person is talking in such broad terms as to make the skills used in model making also apply to such things as plumbing and car repair. The devil is in the details, as always. Here, the details are very different. Different techniques, different skills, and different reasons for all of it.

RE: Teaching to Build
 

Nor am I. You are, of course, correct.