LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I do not have any method to landing before fuel runs out. Dead stick is common for me.
What do you guys do to prevent this.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Pick up a cheap digital kitchen timer. Time your engine to see how long it runs on a tank, then set the timer to a minute or two less. You can clip the timer to your radio while you're flying. Some radios have timers built in that count when the throttle is off idle.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Most all computer radios these days have a countdown timer on them. Set that for the time you want to fly and then land when it goes off. If your radio doesn't have a timer on it pick up a cheap kitchen cooking timer (as mentioned above) and use that. To find out how long you can fly run a tank on the ground at full throttle and time how long it takes to run out of fuel.

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I learned on parkflyers and 1/2a (.049 engines) so I always came in deadstick....but now I always do it anyway, its more fun for me...even my .65 big stick...Rog

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

With a Nitro plane, after the engine is broken in I fill the tank and fly it as I normally would for 8 minutes. My Spektrum radio has a countdown (or up) timer. I then bring it in and check out how much fuel I have left, usually about half a tank if I'm not WOT the whole flight. I then know I can push it out to roughly 14 minutes of average flying and still have a small reserve in case conditions are not good for landing and I have to go around a couple of times.

With electrics, same sort of system using a charger to check out how much a fully charged battery has drained. I fly them wherever I want for the first 8 minutes and then keep them close to me but at a decent altitude for the last few minutes, in case the battery hits reserve and loses motor power.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

My radio is a Tower Hobbies 6ch.     Correct me if I am wrong, I do not have a timer.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Radio Shack and Walmart sell digital timers that can count down. Flight times of 8 to 10 minutes is good if not flying full throttle the whole flight.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

hmmm, just sounds strange to fly a plane untill you run out of fuel... as been said get a timer and have fun landing under power so if you need to go around again you can :) . you might be suprized when it saves you from a "crash landing" .



bass

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

timers only work IF you remember to set them:D don't ask

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Or if you remember to refuel the plane before the next flight.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

ES generally you dont get a timer in a radio until you get up to 7 channels, and no your tower radio does not have one....Bass, I ususally fly alone so I dont have a go around problem and I have lost 2 planes in 10 years, one was a .25 trainer and I was too low, so it actually fell out of the sky, thats when I learned that could actually happen, the other was a .15 stick that stalled and it was either come in too fast and nose in and hope or "the swamp",,funny thing is I fixed the stick and then crashed it in that swamp the very next flight, dont really know what happened......but when I do fly around the regulars they know and I just yell out deadstick...I personally think it sharpens the skills, you can stall and fall a plane if your up high enough, which is usually where I am flying,,at the 1/2a funflys one of the contests is to landing closests to the circle...it takes practice to do ,,,some guys stall and fall, and other guys spiral in and slingshot out to come around, you should try it....Rog
Oh and I fill with a syringe so usually only 2 oz go in my tanks..

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

This is an odd situation. This brings up a question about how the OP was trained to fly RC.

Most qualified and competent RC instructors have a routine that they teach. Part of that is a discussion and demonstration about what to do before flying. A list would look like this:

The pre-flight. Checking controls checking that the prop is tight, checking that the servos are ok - snug - and that the linkage is intact and secure, checking the battery to make sure it is fully charged or, if a second or third (whatever the number) flight of the day, fueling or refueling - whatever the case.. add to the list as you see fit.

Prior to start up: Turn on the TX then the RX (note the order here), performing either a range check if not done in a while or a standard check for correct movement of the control surfaces and throttle, overall over-look of the plane to make sure it is ready to start and fly.

Start up: Starting the engine, tuning the engine, then performing a range check if necessary or a control check to make sure that the plane controls are ok and ready for flight.

And we can go on and on about what to do and what the instructor should/would teach the student to do before flying.

My instructor had a wrist watch that had a timer. He would set the watch to 10 minutes. It would give him a beep at nine minutes, then a couple of beeps at nine minutes thirty seconds, and a series of beeps at nine minutes 50 seconds, then at 10 minutes, a long beep. All this warned him/me that it was time to set up for a landing, that the fuel level was down, and it was time to get the plane down, under power... not dead stick.

So, where I'm going with this is that if the OP had the correct instruction, he should know what to do prior to the flight and how long to fly the plane in order to set his timer (if he has one) so that he is not forced into a situation that his back is against the wall.. to do a dead-stick landing.

It's easy to do, as Ken pointed out, most, if not all modern computer radios have timers incorporated in the menu system. The thing to do here is to learn to use it and use it. If the radio is a basic non-computer type, then a cheap cooking timer is probably the best investment that the flyer can use to prevent the necessity to dead-stick landing because he ran out of fuel.

Simple common sense, I believe.

CGr.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I have always used a timer the one from Radio Shack its loud and easy to use.

for those who run there planes out of fuel and deadstick it in thats not a option for flying scale planes, if your flying a 1/2A floater or a big wing trainer then sure, but a mustang that would be a no.

for the OP just run a tank of fuel out and time your run then set the timer for a couple of min short of that time its easy.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I have a new student that started today, I don't have CGs check list but as I go along he will learn it all before he solos. I took the plane up and got it into trim then had another friend trim out the buddy box. I had no idea about how long of a flight I was going to get so flight one ran out of fuel and I just dead sticked it in. After that I had my radio timer set for 10 minutes. As long as I remembered to turn it on all was OK. It beeps at 10 and it allows a couple more minutes to get the plane landed. When the last flight was over I took out the fuel and we had maybe enough for another minute. Those little kitchen timers are great. You just glue a clothes pin on the back if it doesn't have a clip and snap it on your radio handle.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

No kind of arguement there...but I deadstick in my extra and there are few 1/2a planes that are floaters, most are for pylon racing, well I guess its might be a 50/50 thing, but even with the racers you just have to learn to bleed off speed and flair at the right time...Rog

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

you dont need a timer and never will....if you know your engine.
your engine will give you warnings that its running out of fuel
it will rev higher all of a sudden without throttle input, aka lean out due to the fact the engine is now sucking air and fuel. when this happens you usually have around 1 min of fuel
it wont spudder like most would think, if it does sputter, its to late and your out of fuel.

the best way to learn the engine is put a small amount of fuel in the engine and start her up, then listen as it starts to run out of fuel. its more noticible in the air due to the fact your throwing the plane all over the place. or just put her in the air and guess when she will be out of fuel, when you hear a throttle spike land and you should be fine

that being said
you should be able to land 90% of planes deadstick without any damage, some of them really need the power or they drop like a rock

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Many of my crashes have been when the engine stopped unexpectedly. Wrong place, wrong altitude, wrong wind direction, wrong angle of attack, did not immediately notice the engine had stopped. I like to land with fuel left so I am always in control; I then taxi the plane back to me. I always use a kitchen timer. When I flew my Pusher/Puller I sometimes waited for one engine to stop and then immediately landed using the second engine to taxi the plane back to me.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I started with gliders, I could do a clean no walk landing before I knew how to feed and care for a glow engine. Dead stick practice is part of my flight training for any newby.
Go high, but not higher than you can see well, and fly your plane dead stick. Do it on a buddy box if your new, to get a feel for how it handles dead stick. This is good practice for every plane you get. Beats the heck out of crashing.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Get one of these

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...odsInSession=1

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

The OPs question was how to not go dead stick, timer!!;)

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Timers are a good idea. Often the pilot will experience a compressed or distorted sense of time while flying. So its very difficult to judge 10 or 15 minutes. And waiting until the engine coughs is a bad idea. By then, there might be someone on the field. Its better to call the runway and land with enough fuel remaining to delay for 1 minute, especially at larger events.
However, your deadsticks are great training.You can still simulate them from time to time. Just randomly cut power and pretend the engine has failed. Its not 100% realistic. Airplanes actually glide better when the engine is dead rather than at an idle. But its close enough for practice.
Landing with the engine running does take a more sophisticated technique. You aren't simply controlling your energy with elevator and your path. You will use your throttle to control your rate of descent. You will use your elevator to control speed. So once the airplane has been slowed down, the elevator input changes very little, almost none at all. At that point you are controlling the "sink rate" with throttle. If it looks like you will be short, add a small about of power. It might just be a momentary increase of power and then return to idle. But the adjustment is made with throttle and not elevator. The elevator is used again when you are flairing to land. At this point you are inches from touching your wheels to the ground. Power is completely off. You are trying to hold the airplane off the ground as long as possible and you gradually squeeze in more and more up elevator. Then, Errrk, you've landed. Some heavier airplanes will actually require that you carry a click or two of power all the way until touch down.
I hope this helps you. Good luck.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

This is a interesting subject. When I learned to fly from a veteran flyer 25 years ago, if I lhanded him the transmitter (yes no buddy box) before the engine quit he wouldn't take it. And after it went dead, there was always a couple of turns left if I was high enough. When I got back into flying this was one of the biggest changes I noticed was that everybody landed with power. I always try to land with power. I've had to many mishaps dead stick

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

HI A DEADSTICK LANDING IS NOT SAFE OR ADVISED ON A REGULAR BASIS YOU DO NOT HAVE THE CONTROLLED LANDING THAT A RUNNING ENGINE AFFORDS SAFETY IS EVERYONES RESPONSIBILITY-YOU ARE RISKING YOUR PLANE AND INVESTMENT IN IT-NOT A GOOD IDEA !! ENJOY REGARDS TONY

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I fly my sons Kadet MK2 to deadstick almost every flight for the last 4-5 years. I really do it for him; he is not really interested in flying so I keep it up as long as it has fuel, while he does turns and loops. I think the only power on landings I have done were when it was the only flyable plane, and I had to go fly. A flyer needs to be able to do both because the plane acts differently. I started with 049s so that was the only way then. A guy at the club does 50% of his landings deadstick with his 30% Extra; climbs up high and does inverted spins, loops and rolls, down to a real pretty slip and lands at his feet.

How do I know it is time to land? When I get relaxed and into the moment, the plane is low.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

All you dead stick pilots are to much for me as a lot of planes are in the air at same time from our field and any dead stick is considerd a emergency as they cant make a go round if needed for any reason- why put your fellow flyers in a difacult positinon cause you wont buy a 10.00 timer from Wally World and fly safe and make all your fellow field flyers not have to worry they will come in for a power landing and you shout DEAD STICK and they have to get out of the way and poss run out of fuel while you land and walk out on the field to retrieve your plane as it sits smack dab in the middle of the run away - Dont tell me you always manage to make it to the side out ot the way

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

ES CONTROL-I usually use an engine smaller than recommended so it's not very often I run out of fuel. All but one of my glow planes usually come back with half a tank.
But for my electrics I needed a timer and at the time I didn't have the RDS8000 I do now. So I got a cheap stopwatch at KMART and velcro'd it to the radio. For all my planes I ran them on the ground at full throttle and timed them till they were dead/empty. That gave me the worst case senario. After I fly a couple of times I modify it and see how much fuel/charge I usually have left. Here's some pics of the stopwatch.-BW

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I will come in deadstick now and then if i'm the only one at the field b/c it's fun. But usually cutting the motor from the xmitter rather than by chance. With a crowd in the air or at the field in general. it's not a good thing to do as is stated everyone has to get out your way, etc. needing to walk out on the runway to retrieve the plane, etc, etc. Having flown sailplanes for many years it's really not that big a deal if you know how your particular plane reacts. our club will pull the throttle back all the way and make you land as part of the flight test. Engines have been known to quit whether the timer goes off or not. Eveyrone should know how the plane reacts with no power otherwise its sort of like driving w/out knowlegdge on how to change a tire. When it happens.. and it will.. you will be more panicked than needed.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

For many years off and on I flew planes with engines that had no throttle. 1/2a being the most common. But I flew planes that used as large as a .36 engine before too. Only rudder or aileron and elevator, no throttle. I remember guys flying large .60 size planes with no throttle before too, but that goes way back though.
For pylon racing we used to use a fixed fuel pickup, no flexible clunk in the tank. You would simply go inverted for a few seconds to kill the engine.
Trainer types of planes are harder to do it with though, You usually wind up doing a 1/2 loop and hold the plane inverted until the engine dies. of course you get the plane up high before you do so.
Then you just perform a dead stick landing like normal.

So if the original poster does not have a throttle try a fixed fuel pickup and going inverted for a few seconds to kill the engine on command. If you have a extra RC channel, you can rig up a free flight fuel cutoff too, and control it with the extra channel servo.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I stuck an old digital watch to the front of my TX with s small spot of Velcro to keep track of my air time.

bhady

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Pay attention to the elevator trim. As you burn off fuel, an airplane with the tank in the nose will start to climb. With practice you can judge the amount of fuel left to within 30 seconds with just knowing the trim position.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Being able to handle a dead-stick landing is different than making all your landings dead-stick. Think about full scale pilots - they train for and practice dead-stick landings, then do their very best to avoid them!

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Dead sticks happen for whatever reason, always have always will.
It's good to be familiar with your plane in glide mode...even better if you choose to fly planes that HAVE a glide mode if called upon.
When I come in dead stick, there is no panicky announcement, no hullabaloo, no drama, I just land off to the side and pick the model up when there's a break in the action.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

When I performed my first landing, it was a dead stick landing. It had to be dead stick because it was a high performance sailplane. Flying a sailplane is the very best way to learn how to fly. There is no such thing as a go-around. The question of how to avoid D/S landings has certainly been answered but the correct procedure to follow has not been mentioned.
Maybe I should present some vital info and ideas at this point.
I have watched many people fly at different fields all over the US and Australia. very few people that I have seen have ever flown their plane correctly or safely. (Safely???)
IMO all RC pilots should adopt the same procedure for flying and landing as the full size pilots do. This means taking off and discover how your plane reacts and handles in any situation. The plane should be flown high, about 100 feet or so and then the motor set to idle. Then find the most ideal angle for the glide path so the plane will decend at a safe rate without being too slow (and stall) or too fast (and overshoot). Once the glide path is established, go back up and then start the glide, now enter a 90 deg. turn of about 20 foot radius. Watch the plane closely and see how much height is lost in the turn. Can a turn be done where the speed does not increase? You should be able to turn with no speed increase and with a minimum of height lost. Height will always be lost faster in a gliding turn so watch your plane closely.
As with all landings, the plane (full size or RC) must be positioned to fly the correct landing circuit. This means entering the circut at the top end of the Downwing Leg and being at the correct height. Fly downwind to the turn for the Base Leg and do a smooth 90 deg. turn. Continue on to the point where you will turn onto Final Approach. The secret to a good (perfect) landing is to set it up correctly. This means knowing your planes flight characteristics intimately. This knowledge only comes from lots of practice.
Setting up for landing does not just mean flying a good looking circuit. It means knowing how high to be when you make that turn onto the Base Leg. It also means where to position the plane to make that important turn.
The next turn is onto the Final Leg. Again it is essential to know what height you should be as you start the turn and when to start so the completed turn will align the plane in the center of the runway. This is all relatively easy to do (?) when the engine is running at idle. You should be able to fly this same landing circuit with the plane being dead stick. So you also need to know how well the plane flies dead stick and gliding. By positioning the plane correctly throughout the circuit and landing approach you will never find yourself landing in a swamp or in the rough or anywhere you shouldn't be.
Nothing looks more beautiful that a perfect landing that results from a carefully planed and executed circuit to the Final Approach. If you think you can fly and do it easily, then go and fly a few circuits at a constant height of 20 or 25 feet. Make every turn a 90 deg. precision turn and don't deviate more than 1 foot up or down thru the flight; do the same thing but fly 3 figure 8s'. The most common and the worst mistake that I witness is seeing pilots fly a 180 deg. turn at each end of the circuit. Such flying teaches you nothing about precision flying. The day will come when you simply must fly a precision flight path so practice the correct turns.
Good luck and good flying.

Wedge

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

The point here, jimmyjames, is to teach proper methods of flying RC. Trying to learn to understand engine sputter as the tank runs dry, is defininely not the way to go. What happens if you are in a turn, way downwind, and run out of fuel? Are you going to land it in the trees or bushes, or in someone's back yard? It's hard enough when it happens by accident, but to intentionally allow this to happen is not the worst technique I've ever heard of, but it is right there with them.

The best way, by far, is to time the flight and to get it on the ground safely before it runs out of fuel. Having an ounce or so of fuel left in the tank is not a sin, it is just plane good flying practice.

CGr.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Out of habit, I fly the low stuff, T&G's, etc., early on in the flight and after a few minutes have elapsed go up higher to finish off the flight. At this point I know the plane is high enough to make the trip back home if the prop stops turning.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

Well, we always say "Fly three mistakes high" for a reason.. :D It often works, but sometimes it doesn't. Depending on the wind and where you end up when that prop stops turning.

CGr.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I will give a good example of why I know its inconsiderat of dead stick landing all your flightsI have been on a field flying my Skydivers and someone goes up while we are gaining altitude for the drop and just dont care and cuts there motor just as we release the chute and hollars Dead stick well I cant control the chute to circle around and this dumm butz just goes ahead and lands while Im trying to do my best to land in the corn field or out of the way to let some one do a dead stick on purpose not withstanding the uncouth take off when all other flyers are holding till we get the jumper on the ground and back to the flight line not to mention we still have a plane in the air to bring down My rant and if it offends you well thats tough , just fly sensably and all will have a fun time

Peply is to all who think constant dead stick landing and cause othere to wait while they play is fun

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

:(!!
I've got no sympathy for those who think their free time is any more valuable than mine.
Sounds to me like your jumper lands deadstick every flight, but it's OK because it's your toy.

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

As` they say If ya ain't tried it dont knock it -we always wait on the flight line to jump when all rest are on ground or we are in line for next flight - we respect the fliers flight time and most respect the time it takes to land a jumper and our drop plane -Rc Skydivers are just another form of RC flying - We do draw a crowd where ever we show up as these newer style of jumpers can do most everthing a real skydiver can do except hook up

RE: LANDING BEFORE EMPTY ?
 

I usually fly the last tank of the day to dry and dead-stick the landing to make clean-up easier. If I have to walk more than 10 feet to pick up the airplane after a dead-stick landing, the landing was poor.