Just as I get my D8T broken in (that sucker FLIES), I'm ready to start my Mugen MBX6R build.

Below are my short-list of engines (in order),
1. Mugen Ninja JX21-B02
2. OS .21XZ-B
3, Werks B5 Pro .21

Thoughts or suggestions of your own? Thanks!</p>

If I had the budget, I'd get the Ninja.

Thanks for the response. This engine does intrigue me the most. I was initially considering a 5 or 7 port this time,  but we'll see.

Neal, do you have any experience with it? I've read mixed reviews.

Thanks!

Ninja!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvaCE...VYXyhA&index=7

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvaCEEFRuW8&list=FLTxQe32UCB3q1eH8pVYXyhA& index=7[/youtube]

Most people consider the B5 more suited to a truggy (although some do use it in a buggy). The B6 is usually the choice for buggys.

Thanks, Gents!

HerrSavage, THAT is one of the coolest RC racing videos I've seen. Those boys were going at it!

Clocked P5 Buggy !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgZvavOWKiY[/youtube]

he was babying it off the line to save the drivetrain from the shock.....

the Bonito he was referring to was being a ***** to tune....ends up after a inspection we found it had a badly torn carb boot...which will cause chaos on a engine like these....

anyways this is a Clocked P5 on tank #12.......very fast engine ! piles of fun with a crazy ass top end

Anyone that wants to be taken seriously, needsone of these Cocked Engines.So who sells these things?

I dont have any experiance with any of these! But I do have a Werks B-6 pro. The Werks engine is by far the smoothest engine top to bottom I have ever run. It makes excellent power and it is easy to drive, and it does scream.

Oh my! That clocked Nova P5 is sick. I'm SOLD!

Neal, just to ensure, that part # is CRE-NOVS21P5XLT?

If so, I will put my order in during the next few weeks. Might have a few other questions so will call you.

So...I *think* I've made my decision on what to throw in my Mugen. And (not surprisingly) it's notone on my initial list.

<u>Werks B6Competiion</u>. Much of thisis based on talking with folks at the track, and the track layout, etc. Lot of guys running these and having good success, which is enough for me. Granted 90% of them have something called a "clocked engine" ;-)

I really came close to the Ninja (or clocked P5). But my rationale is this: Do I really anticipate losing a race because I'm not running a Ninja (or even a clocked engine)? No. I anticipate losing because I'm new and need lots of practice. ;-) I figure by the time I'd at the point I can really compete, I'll have put 5+ gallons in the Werks. If I like it, I stay with it (perhaps even get one clocked). If not, I upgrade to something else. As for the pipe, I'm looking at the 2013. I really think over the next eight months, I'll get a feel for what I am missing, and then at that time go whole hog on what is best suited for me.</p>

Probably your best bet quite honestly.... as I do not think your ready for a modified engine quite yet ..... you still have plenty to learn before I would feel comfortable selling you a modified engine anyways......

lol, WHUT?

Have you even seen the guy race to make that judgment?

I would hand over my 6S truggy to John to drive on any given Sunday. Anyone who races weekly as he does, has more than enough skills to handle any nitro engine. Unless the 'clocking' process involves installing a dilithium chamber and warp core? lololololol.

I'm only playin with you mate, but really...that was a cracker.

By the way John, my only remaining nitro engine (and its not even in a car at the moment) is my Ninja .28, loved that engine, what a beast, bottom and top end in spades.

Well if you ever hit a track with me, that 6S setup would end up being nothing more then a pylon there buddy ! [X(] LOL J/K


Its not driving the engine that is the issue, its tuning,setup and caring for the engine that could be the issue..... a high strung modified is not something meant for a novice just starting out...Too much can go wrong far too quickly for me to feel comfortable recommending one to John at this point in the game......Contrary to what some here may try to say, I am not the type to sell my engines to anyone with no discretion towards who is buying them......

Ninja 28 is pretty fast, but still just a wee little baby compared to the Clocked engines....

I will say this: I was actually taken aback with respect to how many folks (here in Texas) are running a "clocked" engine. As noted, at least 90% of the guys at my track have one modified from his shop. To that end, I understand my track is going to begin offering modified engine services, and with all due respect understand it is a commodity (unless Neal has a super-secret formula no one else has, which in all candor could be the case) but as of right now his engines are incredibly prevelant at our track.

With that - to completely hijack my own thread, are modded engines legal by ROAR standards? i.e., do the pros (Tessman, Drake, Tebo, etc.) run modded engines...and if so who does it? The manufacters? Or, are there any "top" drivers running clocked engines?

we have multiple tracks setup as dealers ... we are the third largest retailer of Novarossi engines in North America right behind A-Main Hobbies, and all of them are sold as modifieds.... So yes, there is a pile of our engines out there

and I do like to believe what we do is quite different then what is and has been offered by the modding industry in the past and present......someone starting out in the industry would have a huge task in front of them to produce engines at the level we do....Not only in understanding, but also in the custom tooling and test equipment we use and have developed...Even having one of our current engines to work from it would still be quite the challenge to first understand then even harder to replicate what we do..... And I do not mean that to sound smug or arrogant, but it is what it is........

And yes over the years I have modified dozens of engines for the Pro's....However I will never pay someone to run my engines, so you will never see any of my engines being listed by the top Pro's.....If a pro runs my engines they have paid me full price for the engine and usually will keep it secret that they are running a modified engine....But ever wonder why some of the pro's "Stock" engines run so hard ? ... Some of them are not only running a modified engine, but they also run higher then 30% nitro............



I forgot to ask...which track do you run at ?

Speed Monkey in Irving, TX. It just opened but gaining popularity very quickly. AKA is hold their Mid-America Championships there in May. Should be awesome!

I think you have too fond of an attachment to the engines you work on. Frankly, based on the number of quality posts and information contained therein, I think JohnP2 is more than capable of handling one of your 'high strung' modified engines. I think your average first time R/C buyer getting a Traxxas-anything r/c model would no doubt not be able to deal with a strong race engine properly.

I'm not trying to beat you up by any means, but if someone wants to drop $300-$500 on a race engine, I think they know enough to know that they're getting something a lot better than what they had and will treat it with more respect.

I mean, really, isn't the point of running a business to sell product and/or services and make a profit from it? I guess to me I wouldn't be comfortable in deciding whats right for my customers or not unless of course it meant it would cause great harm to anyone or anything beyond a toy car. Maybe I just have a different business model..

Blah.. rant over.
[:@][:@]

IMHO a modded engine is a waste of money. If you know what you're doing, you can get more than enough power from a stock engine. Most stock engines nowadays have too much power for buggies as it is anyway.. "High strung" bla bla.. High price, high maintenance.. If you want to spend big, get an OS Speed.. That seems to be what most people end up getting anyway, after fleeting dalliances with the modding fad...

unfortunately I do not think you fully understand the whole picture....... It was only 6 weeks ago that John was melting down his starter box trying to start a bone stock OS 25... before that he contacted me about a modified and I suggested he stay with a stock engine, as I didn't feel he had anywhere near enough experience to run a modified of mine.... Not only for his own frustrations, but mine also.... I am not going to willingly sell someone a engine that is above their skill level, as its not only going to cause him piles of frustrations its going to cause me a pile frustrations as well......No offense meant to John but look how angry he was when his truggy broke a spindle, he was expecting Hotbodies to overnight him a replacement part(which is IMO a unrealistic expectation) ...How is he going to be when he can't figure out how to properly tune my moidified engine ? or when something goes wrong with the engine ? whats going to happen then ? A person who's on their first racing nitro has no business buying one of my modifieds...All my engines spin well past 40 000 RPM and because of that extreme RPM more can go wrong, especially if the user doesn't know exactly what they are doing....I Am not going to willingly set someone up for failure to cash in on a sale..It may seem crazy to you for me to say that, but the long term survival of my company depends on me making sure all my engines out in the field run properly....Selling a fully modified engine to a novice just ends up being bad for business and ends up costing us far more then the little we make off each modified engine......Of course I would sell John a engine if he really wanted one, and I would do whatever it takes to get him educated on how to operate the engine..But at the end of the day I don't think he is at the point yet where he would benefit from my engines and because of that I am going to recommend he run stock engines for a while longer.......making a single sale is not worth it in the long run.....Sorry to say but I am not out to sell anyone with a pocket full of a cash a engine..i know better then that and feel my approach ensures the long term survival of my company......... There is no stock engine on the market that runs anything like my modifieds, what I do goes way beyond cutting a few cosmetic fangs on a sleeve (99% of the industry believes this is what modifying is ), my engines are the real deal, they run on the ragged edge, and because of that I always prefer to sell my engines to those with he experience I feel will allow them to succeed with my products......At this point in time I feel I would be setting john up for failure......sorry some of you don't agree...making a quick buck is not worth it in the long term.....

...

OS Speed is a killer engine, probably the fastest stock race .21 on the market... However I feel we have the products to easily exceed the OS Speed...Not only in sheer performance, but also in lifespan,price as well after sales support...... you will not find a company out there in the engine game who takes as good of care of their customers as we do....Good luck getting any help from OS when the Speed dies out at 3 gallons (which unfortunately many do ) .......Good luck getting tuning advice from OS when the engine acts up on race weekend...... IN terms of after sales service and support we eat OS alive.....Which is why so many previous OS owners have converted to my engines..... We not only offer a faster engine at a lower price, but we also are there to backup the engine if anything goes wrong....

As for power, well obviously some out there are happy with the power of the stock engines, which is normal for any form of motorsports, however there are those like me who do not feel the stock engines are powerful enough....truth be told if all I had were stock engines I probably wouldn't bother running nitro any longer, as I would find it lame and boring....As to me none of the stock engines are very fast at all, most are actually quite slow and lazy by my standards...The only stock engine out there that even is remotely close to impressive to me is a OS 25....And even that is quite mild and tame next to my modifieds..... Ask Savage Sam how that Alpha .23 stacks up to his Clocked Bonito if you don't believe me....For me that stock .23 wouldn't be worth the fuel and time used to break it in, its way too mild for me to get any enjoyment from it...........So say what you want, but obviously there are many out there who also feel the same away as I do about my engines or we wouldn't be where we are today......

What a bunch of sheer over-the-top bollocks.. I never directly asked you to modify anything, and you never "turned me down". I might have considered at one point, and perhaps did broach the subject since I had ordered this Blast V9 from amain in the States, and was considering options after finding out it wasn't really what I expected.. (still got a killer deal on it, and it will make a great buggy engine..) when you were being untypically civil for a moment, and I was maybe extra bored (winter..) and just brainstorming options..

The stuff you have written on this page in the last few posts is the most preposterous, disingenuous, and frankly delluded hot-air I have seen written in an RC forum in a long time. You seem to really think you've reinvented the wheel...

I have been encountering more and more people who have had your engines and moved on, and the reason is that your whole thing is more talk than substance. Your fanboys are loyal cuz they think it's cool to be part of your arrogant trash-talking attitude junior high clique thing. They all buy into your talk, and the ones who do well would do well with stock engines. You are responsible for such an awful turn in this hobby - all trash-talking about how my toy-car engine can beat up your toy car engine. It's revolting. You even see it on amain product reviews now.. You've poisoned other modders into adopting similar tones, because they have to because unfortunately your trash-talking MOD is so contagious - like a filthy disease.. Again though, I'm seeing more and more people move on from your engines(people from various continents..) Which is understandable - even IF they were that great, the whole "I am the god of nitro RC" aura eminating from you is so offputting it's bound to push all but the most blindly sycophantic axxkissers away...

John, buy yourself a modded Bonito, then whichever pipe and header and plugs and clutch he tells you to buy, then change fuels to whatever it has to be. Call him everytime the weather changes by 10F and you can't tune it.. Then once you've spent your $600 on all that, and it doesn't work out perfectly, well..., I hope you don't bow out of the hobby all the sooner because you blew your load too soon on a bunch of unnecessary attitude and presumed better performance from some modded nonsense when a stock engine for half the price and none of the annoying stigma that goes with him would have served you just as well, if not better...

You're a freakin' liar about Alpha too. You know they are good powerful engines for the money but never talk about them because you don't want to talk about the competition which you aren't selling. An Alpha .23 will almost certainly be my next engine, and I won't feel at all insecure about it.. In fact it's one of the main things I'm looking forward to in RC this year.. - breaking in a killer new truggy engine.. No, it doesn't need to be "modded".. Stupid ridiculous internet forum sub-culture that modding is...

The guy in the video of the P5 above had an Alpha A852 too that was shredding it up.. I think he had a video of it right after the P5 and it looked right up there with it... Where'd that video go?.................

Herrsavage, I have to commend you on an exceptionally eloquent post, unfortunately, I can't allow it to stay, as you have no personal experience with Neal's engines, which means it equates to manufacturer bashing. You may or may not be spot on with your comments, but we require members to have first hand experience of the subject matter in order to allow such a scathing post, sorry. I too 'think' Neal may be overstating his case somewhat, but I'm as often guilty of that myself, it isn't grounds for removal. If you would like me to pm you a copy of the message I've removed so you may rephrase it appropriately I will be happy to do so, just send me a pm request.