Notices
Carden Aircraft Post threads here related to the Carden Aircraft line

40% 260 on a Diet

Old 03-21-2007, 07:48 PM
  #251  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

ORIGINAL: k5mog

Bob
I don't suppose you attend JoeNall? I would enjoy looking at your 260 in the flesh. It's may 16th-19th and is the biggest large scale event in this part of the country. If not would you mind a few questions by pm? Thanks for a great thread!

Ralph
If at all possible, I will go to Nall this year, it's to early for me to confirm that I would be able to be there, I don't mind any questions on line or PM.

Bob
Old 03-29-2007, 01:18 AM
  #252  
Jason 3-Danhakl
Senior Member
My Feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

Guys I had the pleasure of getting to fly this Aircraft for three flights last Saturday. Bob asked me to come out and try to give my opinion on its overall capability. The first flight I spend gathering first impressions and what needed to be adjusted for imac style flying. Of course I spent 6 of the 12 mins really flipping her around in full 3-d mode.
My first impression was the engine is no where close to broken in. I'd say there is at least 400 rpm waiting to come out once she seats in. Second was the CG is on the nose heavy side. It take's quite a bit of stick pressure to maintain invert 45's and straight and level. Third was it is foamy light on the sticks. Small corrections react much faster than a 40lb 40%er. Fourth is the power delivery is reallllllly smooth. There is never a speed surge so it was very easy to maintain a constant speed during pattern work.
After adjusting the dual rates and looking at some of the linkages we were ready for the second flight. On this flight I started with 45 up line snaps. These were absolutely no problem for the Extra. So I went on to the vertical snaps. 2 snaps can be performed with out getting off line. Trying 3 it will run out of steam enough you and can see a pronounced wag to get back on line. The wing loading is so light the snaps never really load up. Which in 3-d is outstanding. In IMAC as long as you stay in the snap a little longer and have faith that it will stop they present just as well vs. a 40lb airplane. The power reminds me a of a 40 lb 40%er with Greeves pipes and a Mezlik 28.5x12. Very smooth and constant speed. Rollers are all rudder and very little elevator input. I attribute this to the wing loading. Unless it is true KE elevator makes it change altitude.
Third flight was just screwing around with the airplane. I found it flat spins beyond description. Flatter and slower descent than you can believe. There is no doubt the 3-d aspect of flight is incredible. I performed some serious high g loads to the airframe. It showed no signs of wear or failure at all.
My personal opinion on the airplane is I would fly it at any major contest that is not dealing with a high DA (Tuscon Shootout) You would need more power for the high DA fields.
I know that many of you are going be arm chair critics but this is my opinion. So take it as you want.
Jason Danhakl
Old 03-29-2007, 07:03 AM
  #253  
T. Bob
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
T. Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Munster, IN
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

Thanks Jason
That was very informative.

"It's the best plane ever"
Old 04-01-2007, 08:55 PM
  #254  
vatechguy3
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

maybe i missed this earlier, but with the da100 on the nose, was there any lead added to the nose in order to balance??

also, have you guys noticed any issue with the smaller diameter prop not giving any flow to the surfaces during slow high alpha flight?

thanks
tony
Old 04-02-2007, 12:45 PM
  #255  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet


ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

maybe i missed this earlier, but with the da100 on the nose, was there any lead added to the nose in order to balance??

also, have you guys noticed any issue with the smaller diameter prop not giving any flow to the surfaces during slow high alpha flight?

thanks
tony

The airframe was built around the parameters of the DA 100s weight so there was not any need for lead in the nose, in fact it looks like I will be moving the batteries and regulators from the engine box to somewhere near the wing tube. As far as enough air moving over the surfaces during high alpha maneuvers; it’s just really not an issue and it will only get better because this is a new engine and I am running it rich enough that it is only turning 5900 rpm, I think after break-in; it will be somewhere around 6300 rpm and nearly 15 more pounds of thrust on an airplane that only weighs 28lbs to start with.

Bob
Old 07-04-2007, 12:51 PM
  #256  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

ORIGINAL: gbrod

Ok, thanks.
I'll wait for the 50 flights and your comments then.
In the meantime, enjoy it, everybody should be jealous (in the good sense)
Best regards
George

Hey, George

About three weeks ago I broke 60 flights with it. All I can really say is I am having allot of fun with it, there have been no glue joint failures or structural failures, it tracks very true even in winy conditions, and it flies well for both IMAC and 3D.
Here is a link to a short video at around 50 flights.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/RCRC/slides/Bob260.html
Old 07-06-2007, 08:30 AM
  #257  
Doug Cronkhite
My Feedback: (34)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,798
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

Really impressive work Bob. Really damned impressive!!

You should know.. a lot of people said the same kind of things when Pete Goldsmith showed up at the 1994 TOC with his 46% Cap 232. That 134" span, 3310 square" Cap 232 weighed 34 pounds and flew competitively in the TOC on a 3W-120. Like you, he spent a great deal of effort examining where to save weight without sacrificing structural integrity, and like you, many people scoffed at his methods.

I'm truly fascinated why some of you people felt the need to ridicule this effort? It's amazing what the anonymity of the internet will do to bring out people's bad personality traits. I guarantee none of you would ever act like this is person, where you might actually be held accountable for your callous, rude, and purely childish comments.
Old 11-30-2007, 10:27 AM
  #258  
AirTramp
Junior Member
 
AirTramp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rogersville, AL
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet

First of all thanks 260 Man for starting this thread. Also thanks Sensei for sharing your ideas and talent with the modeling community.
I started a 40% Carden Edge over three years ago. It was my first sheeted foam airplane and yes I did build one of the wings upside down, something about putting the top down or the bottom up, what ever, any way I didn't follow the instructions where it is plainly marked "Place top down". I was very upset with myself for the mistake and straight away ordered a new wing kit from Dennis. New wing arrived and the replacement balsa was so much heaver than the balsa that originally came with the plane that I lost focus on the build. I couldn't make myself use the replacement balsa so I set the project aside. After about four months my ambitions again arose so I decided to purchase new balsa and get along with the project.
I'll be the first to admit that a Carden flies great at 38 lbs but as I built this plane in the back of my mind this little voice keep saying “Build it to fly. Don't build it to survive a crash." As I completed the wood work I still couldn't make myself cover the plane. I kept thinking this thing has got to go on a diet. Not knowing what to do next I put it aside once more. And there it has sat for three years. I have been content buying and flying ARF until I stumbled across this thread.
Because of 260 man's thread and Sensei choosing to continue sharing his ideas when others may have "taken their ball and went home" has caused me to dust the old Drimel tool off with a renewed want to complete this aircraft. It won't be as light as Sensei's but it will be lighter than 38 lbs.
This thread hasn't been posted to in almost five months. So if you are reading this and you know 260 Man or Sensei please tell them thanks for the information that showed a fellow modeler what he needed to do to complete his well over due project.
Old 12-03-2007, 07:26 AM
  #259  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 40% 260 on a Diet


ORIGINAL: AirTramp

First of all thanks 260 Man for starting this thread. Also thanks Sensei for sharing your ideas and talent with the modeling community.
I started a 40% Carden Edge over three years ago. It was my first sheeted foam airplane and yes I did build one of the wings upside down, something about putting the top down or the bottom up, what ever, any way I didn't follow the instructions where it is plainly marked "Place top down". I was very upset with myself for the mistake and straight away ordered a new wing kit from Dennis. New wing arrived and the replacement balsa was so much heaver than the balsa that originally came with the plane that I lost focus on the build. I couldn't make myself use the replacement balsa so I set the project aside. After about four months my ambitions again arose so I decided to purchase new balsa and get along with the project.
I'll be the first to admit that a Carden flies great at 38 lbs but as I built this plane in the back of my mind this little voice keep saying “Build it to fly. Don't build it to survive a crash." As I completed the wood work I still couldn't make myself cover the plane. I kept thinking this thing has got to go on a diet. Not knowing what to do next I put it aside once more. And there it has sat for three years. I have been content buying and flying ARF until I stumbled across this thread.
Because of 260 man's thread and Sensei choosing to continue sharing his ideas when others may have "taken their ball and went home" has caused me to dust the old Drimel tool off with a renewed want to complete this aircraft. It won't be as light as Sensei's but it will be lighter than 38 lbs.
This thread hasn't been posted to in almost five months. So if you are reading this and you know 260 Man or Sensei please tell them thanks for the information that showed a fellow modeler what he needed to do to complete his well over due project.
Hello Air Tramp,

Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the very best on your build.

Bob
Old 02-13-2014, 05:15 AM
  #260  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

At around 500 flights I added black and gold to the airplane in 2008, I am not sure how many flights are on it today, but it is still flying great. Here is an old video from 2008, keep in mind that this is a 40% aerobatic airplane running only a stock DA 100cc on stock exhaust back in a time that just about all Carden 40%ers were weighing in at around 40-46 lbs.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_...es/Bob260.html

Bob
Old 02-13-2014, 07:13 AM
  #261  
pjp01
Junior Member
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: windsorOntario, CANADA
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

What an extraordinary plane Bob, and great video.
Been an inspiration to many I believe. A few ultra light 40%s up here in Canada since and in progress.
Just finishing up a 40% Carden Edge. Not an ultra light but lightened fairly agressively. DA150 on RE3s so shooting for around 34lbs.
Great to hear how well yours has held up.
Best Regards

Jason
Old 02-13-2014, 07:11 PM
  #262  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the kind words Jason, your going to love your Edge at 43 lbs. on a 150 and pipes. Best of luck to you on your maiden.

Bob
Old 02-14-2014, 08:50 AM
  #263  
pjp01
Junior Member
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: windsorOntario, CANADA
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks Bob, I'll be devastated if she comes in at 43. lol
All the best.
Jason
Old 02-16-2014, 04:13 AM
  #264  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Sorry buddy, I ment to 34 pounds, I must have been over tired...

Bob
Old 01-30-2020, 09:13 AM
  #265  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 40% Carden Extra 260 on a diet

My old 260 is still alive and well here in 2020.

2008 J.H. Rice Memorial

Bob

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.