Genesis_twin

Hi Dr Honda,

In another post I asked you if you had a lathe. This is what I was thinking about. I have been breaking the wheel axle like toothpicks on my 4-stroke Genesis ever since getting the new Sniper tires. I also see that at least one other person has broken one recently.

It will break right where the pin hole to secure the wheel hex is. In addition to the pin hole the axle is hollow and threaded for a set screw that retains the pin.

There are a couple of ways to make it stronger. I have repaired two axles by drilling out the 8mm broken shaft stub and brazing a new 8mm shaft into the hole, then drilling the pin hole. this only gains a little bit of material whereas the hollow part is now solid.

Another way would be to replace the 8mm shaft with 10mm. The axle is stepped with a 10mm shaft reducing to 8mm (see pic) The axle could be modified like I have or better yet fab new ones with 10mm the entire length and replace the 8x16mm bearing with a 10x16. The pin hole would still be needed but the shaft would be much stronger.

The best way would be to create axles without the pin hole by keying the wheel hex with an internal hex, oval, keyway or D shape and shape the axle to match. If it was 10mm Dia the axle would be unbreakable. With this option the wheel hexes would obviously be custom made but the Genesis and Nemesis have 2 different hexes, 19 and 23mm. The 19mm would be tough to deal with because of the wheel nut thread dia is much smaller then the 23mm.

I am this close )( to buying a mini-mill and mini-lathe but I thought I would run it past you. Without CNC I would not be selling them for others that may need them.

CEN: It would be great if this axle were redesigned with any of the above. The hollow shaft with a pin hole through it is a definite weak point.

Thanks,
Dean

P.S. no pic of the 23mm hex now, 19mm shown below

jadda

Hi Genesis twin!
It think your right. I been breaking wheel axles as toothpikes to when I used my new era arms, but none with stock arms. But I would still buy this new wheel axles.
So if someone makes them I'll buy them.
Thanks
Jadda

Genesis_twin

Hey Jadda,

I did break one with the stock A-arms but I was breaking A-arms like toothpicks also. []

jadda

Yes that's also a problem for me that's why I want to use the new era arms. But the wheel axles are kinda expensive. So now i'm using stock arms because they are cheaper to replace.
So I hope Dr.Honda or someone else can make us this update for those wheel axles.
Good thread Genesis twin

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Guys,

Well… My lathe isn’t CNC… yet. I’m working on it’s conversion… but it won’t happen until after the new year. BUT… I may be able to lie to my mill. There may be a way to chuck an axle in the spindle, and hold a cutting tool in a vice on the table.

Give me a couple days to see if I can make it happen.

Or I could just use a stock axle, weld the pin hole shut, cut it back to size on the lathe, and re-harden the axle. (just a thought) Brazing isn’t a very strong solution.

I’ll let you know what I come up with.

Jman44

I would also be interested in buying better wheel axles for the genesis, since on the first day I drove the genny I broke one. Wouldn't titanium axles be good solution also?

Genesis_twin

Jman44, I'm not sure about the properties of titanium- stronger then steel at the same thickness or just lighter? Anyway I think the best solution is to have more material.

Dr Honda, Just filling the pin hole won't work, you still need a pin unless custom axles and hexes are fabbed with a nut to hold the wheel hexes on and keying of some kind to replace the pin. I am attaching a sketch of what the best way to make the axle would be. Note that custom wheel hexes will be needed with an internal hex.

I did get a mini-lathe at Harbor Freight Saturday (on sale $358.00 ) Pics below show the axle stub drilled out and the new shaft ready for brazing. with the shaft inserted into the drilled hole brazing is plenty strong. As I said above, this only eliminates the hollowness of the shaft and the pinhole is still needed. If these do not hold up the next step is to try 10mm shafts grafted onto the stub.

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

Sorry guys… I haven’t had much time in the shop since this Christmas thing has come upon us.

Are my eyes tricking me… or is the axle as hollow as it looks? If that’s the case, no wonder they are breaking. I really don’t think you need to move up to 10mm though. My FireHammer only uses 8mm axles. Hummmmm….. What about using an axle from a 1/5th scale car? (just thinking)

Anyway… as soon as I get the chance, I’ll see what I can do. But just looking over the part… it may be more than my machines are capable of. Well, at least at a production stand point. (I’m sure I could one-off a set) That axle needs to be produced on a lathe with a milling head. Or a 5 axis machine.

Genesis twin…

Is that drawing of the axle scale? If it is… PM it to me. If it isn’t… I need a drawing with dimensions to draw a model. (or a stock part)

Jman44

If anyone tries a 1/5 scale axle and it works let me know

Genesis_twin

Dr Honda,

No the drawing is not to scale. I just made a sketch without even having the part in front of me. A 5-axis machine would be great for this part, wish I had one. I think I've got a good solution by going to a 10mm shaft brazed to the axle and still using the pin hole. With 10mm there should plenty of material left after drilling the pin hole. This will only work with the 23mm wheel hexes because reaming out the original 19mm hexes (pic above) doesn't leave much metal at the wheel nut threads.

I am going to fab 1 or 2 over the weekend and get some pics.

The original axle shaft is hollow and tapped for a fat set screw to retain the pin.

I wonder how much www.emachineshop.com would charge for the hex keyed version of the axle.

Jadda, Jman44, If Dr Honda is not interested in producing these commercially I will modify some axles for you guys if you send them to me and a small fee for material and shipping. They can be 8mm shaft as shown above or I would recommend 10mm and getting the 23mm wheel hexes and sending them also for reaming.

Dr honda, If you are interested in fabbing the hex keyed version I will draw up some real drawings (2D) for the axle and hex adapter

Jman44

So does the bigger hexes work with the stock wheels? Would the 10mm axle fit in the bearing? Also what is the keyed axle? I am definately going to want stronger axles so let me know how your testing goes.

Actually I think the nemesis uses 23mm hexes hmm

dj2_7

Why is the set screw needed to hold the pin in. when you put the wheel on it will hold it in. couldn't you just make the axle solid with a hole for the pin to go through. I would think that would make it stronger.

Genesis_twin

Jman44,

No the old wheels are for a 19mm wheel hex but I bet that the old style tires would fit on the new nemesis wheels. I found some 10x16mm bearings at my LHS and on-line that replace the 8x16mm outer bearing. A keyed axle would eliminate the pin and pin hole that holds the wheel hex on, the axle would be unbreakable.

dj2_7,

That is exactly what I am doing. I am going to 10mm to make it even stronger because My truck weighs a bit more then the average Genesis.

dj2_7

OK I see now. I was looking at the drawing and it threw me off. It should work out for you. Good luck

Genesis_twin

Update: I finished the 10mm version of the axle. My truck now has modified 8mm axles on one side and 10mm on the other. If it ever stops raining enough for the track to dry I will bash the heck out of it and see if anything breaks. below are pics of each version. On the 10mm version only the tip is hollow.

poor judgement

very nice job!

good luck in trying to break that fat fella. dont suppose u fancy knocking some shafts up for funfactors do u?

Genesis_twin

Thanks, I don't think I can break the fat ones but I bet I can break the small one [>:]

What exactly is breaking on the funfactor? I can't do anything too fancy like the ball end of the CVD axle. If it is just a shaft maybe a steel tube can be brazed over it. Got any pics?

cmepoo

If you make this axle solid them way cant you use a roll pin to hold the wheel hex on. just a thought. seems to be alot easier then trying to fab a whole new design. Are these axles going to be for sale.and how much.

cmepoo

I have also thought abot putting a long set scew in, then drilling a whole through set scew and putting a roll pin in to hold the wheel hex on. This would make it a little stronger.

jadda

Hi Genesis Twin!
Sorry if i haven't replayed to you about the wheel axles. Now I want to hear how strong the 10mm axles are, They looks really tough and durable and most of all nice.
REALLY GOOD JOB!!!

Great job genesis twin

michelob78

Do you guys think it is a losing proposition to go to a custom machine shop and have them make say 50 or 100 of them? I am debating contacting a machine shop near me and seeing what it would cost. I might one off a set at work to see how hard or expensive it might be.

jadda

I think that's a great idea!
If you do visit a machine shop let us know. PM me with all the info if you go to the machine shop

scorpionx1

So how do the axles perform???

I would love to get my hands on four of those things! Let me know where to sign up!!!!

Thanks...

Genesis_twin

Hey Guys,

It's been raining here every week, just enough to trash the track, but this weekend should be dry. I will bash the heck out of it to test the axles.

Ok for you guys that want I will modify axles that you send me for $50 + shipping per set (4ea). This will not even come close to paying for my time but will cover costs like propane and oxygen bottles (the small disposable ones), brazing rods, steel and tooling.

I would need the wheel hexes also, I use them for guides when drilling the pin holes.
The 10mm dia. version of the axle requires the 23mm hex adapters to be bored out. This will cost an extra $10 as I have to anneal (heat red hot and cool slowly) then re-heat treat them after boring. This burns a lot of gas. (I also heat treat and temper the axles).

I don't want to spend all my time doing axles so this is a limited time offer depending on demand.

jadda

This is a great offer!!!! only 50 bucks that is very cheap!!
But sorry i have to say no to this, I went spending my money on an OPS engine and soon A matrix pro kit. It's to bad that this is limited time offer
But I understand you. you can't spend all your time doing wheel axles!! CEN should do that
But I still want to know how tough your 10mm wheel axles are!!
I'm very sorry for not ordering your axles......

jadda