KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
#51
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
jgs77, I think that the Clarence Lee .61 would be super for your Kaos, too. I mentioned the Tower because they are so strong and you were looking for lots of power. But, as cwahl, said, the Lee K&B would be in the spirit of the model. Look in the classifieds in Model Aviation for his ad.
Thanks, Ed. I actually remember it getting pretty nasty up-river in Center City Philly when I lived there, too. But the worst place on earth for humidity I have ever lived was Williamsburg, Va. I once hung a pair of jeans out to dry in August in direct sunlight and five days later they were still wet (and there was no rain).
Thanks, Ed. I actually remember it getting pretty nasty up-river in Center City Philly when I lived there, too. But the worst place on earth for humidity I have ever lived was Williamsburg, Va. I once hung a pair of jeans out to dry in August in direct sunlight and five days later they were still wet (and there was no rain).
#52
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
ORIGINAL: jgs77
PDP means getting a new sleeve?
PDP means getting a new sleeve?
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
You can get a lazer cut short kit of the Super Kaos from http://www.lazer-works.com/ for $39.95 plus shipping.
The short kit is everything but the straight stock parts and is cut according to the RCM plans for the Super Kaos. I just received my short kit and I have to say the work is simply outstanding.
They also included a cardboard tube and cut the ribs to fit over the tube as a building crutch so that the wing comes out straight. I have not built one of these before but fully symmetrical wings are sometimes tough to build perfectly straight.
I have no commercial or other interest in Lazer works but just pass this along as a great way to get a Kaos kit at a very reasonable price.
The short kit is everything but the straight stock parts and is cut according to the RCM plans for the Super Kaos. I just received my short kit and I have to say the work is simply outstanding.
They also included a cardboard tube and cut the ribs to fit over the tube as a building crutch so that the wing comes out straight. I have not built one of these before but fully symmetrical wings are sometimes tough to build perfectly straight.
I have no commercial or other interest in Lazer works but just pass this along as a great way to get a Kaos kit at a very reasonable price.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
"Snoopy". Sun Fli 4-20 Built around 1990 or so, by far my all time favorite RC model in 32 years of the hobby. Powered with a Supertigre G34 it's the ultimate Sunday afternoon touch and go airplane.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
I thought I saw it before but I just want to confirm....I have the Tower .40 Kaos kit and a set of Kaos .40 original rib patterns (masonite) and the are different. The original ribs are smaller than the Tower ribs. Is this correct and if so how do they differ in flight. Thanks
#57
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
All I know for certain is that the original Kaos .40 has a 52" span and the Tower version was slightly enlarged to 55" to better accommodate contemporary .46 engines. As far as the root and tip percentages (thickness) I have no idea if or how much they differ. Bridi played around with tip airfoil thicknesses quite a bit between the Sun Fli's, Kaoi, Dirty Birdy and UFO designs. The earlier Sun Fli's had very thin tip airfoils compared to the Kaos, for example.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
Speaking of variations on a (Kaos) theme: Bridi made some chamges between the original Kaos and the follw-on Super Kaos. Here are a few he discussed in his RCM Super Kaos construction article.
"The wing ribs remained the same, however, the tips and aileron size as well as the aileron location was changed. The rudder is sligthly smaller, but fuse height has been added in the rear doing away with the sub-rudder. The elevator was brought forward approximately 2 1/2" which helped the Figure M and the spin manuvers."
The wing position was raised 1/4" up and 1/4" forward. The hatch was eliminated for strength in the nose section. A 2 3/4" spinner was used instead of a 2 1/2" diameter unit....the bottom of the tank compartment is also deeper to accept any retract."
Inquiring minds want to know.
"The wing ribs remained the same, however, the tips and aileron size as well as the aileron location was changed. The rudder is sligthly smaller, but fuse height has been added in the rear doing away with the sub-rudder. The elevator was brought forward approximately 2 1/2" which helped the Figure M and the spin manuvers."
The wing position was raised 1/4" up and 1/4" forward. The hatch was eliminated for strength in the nose section. A 2 3/4" spinner was used instead of a 2 1/2" diameter unit....the bottom of the tank compartment is also deeper to accept any retract."
Inquiring minds want to know.
#59
RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
Here's another modification that you might want to consider if you're building the Super Kaos: Lower the stabilizer position about 1 inch.
I have a Super Kaos originally built in 1981 with Goldberg retracts, a Wing Mfg. canopy, and an Irvine .61 (still in flying condition). This single plane has been flown with 3 different stab locations. (1) With the stab in the stock location on top of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the belly when full rudder control was applied to hold knife-edge flight. (2) With the stab relocated to the bottom of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the canopy when full rudder was applied during knife-edge. (3) Now, with the stab located 1 inch below the top of the fuselage, the plane will accept full rudder control to hold knife-edge, with no need for elevator correction.
Note: The Dirty Birdy incorporated a lowered stab position.
If you have a stock-design Super Kaos that pitches toward the belly with full rudder application (and you don't have a fancy radio transmitter with computerized mixing), you might try adding 1 inch (height) "skid" plates at the tips of the stab, with the plates running the full chord of the stab-tip, and extending down from the bottom of the stab. This mod can help eliminate the undesired pitching. If the mod. causes the plane to pitch toward the canopy with full rudder application, shave down the height of the tip plates 1/8 of an inch at time, and recheck the plane's response to rudder application.
I have a Super Kaos originally built in 1981 with Goldberg retracts, a Wing Mfg. canopy, and an Irvine .61 (still in flying condition). This single plane has been flown with 3 different stab locations. (1) With the stab in the stock location on top of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the belly when full rudder control was applied to hold knife-edge flight. (2) With the stab relocated to the bottom of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the canopy when full rudder was applied during knife-edge. (3) Now, with the stab located 1 inch below the top of the fuselage, the plane will accept full rudder control to hold knife-edge, with no need for elevator correction.
Note: The Dirty Birdy incorporated a lowered stab position.
If you have a stock-design Super Kaos that pitches toward the belly with full rudder application (and you don't have a fancy radio transmitter with computerized mixing), you might try adding 1 inch (height) "skid" plates at the tips of the stab, with the plates running the full chord of the stab-tip, and extending down from the bottom of the stab. This mod can help eliminate the undesired pitching. If the mod. causes the plane to pitch toward the canopy with full rudder application, shave down the height of the tip plates 1/8 of an inch at time, and recheck the plane's response to rudder application.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
My ultimate has Robart retracts, with a ASP61 for power. The only suggestions I might have are, if you install retracts, beef up the engine firewall a little with glass cloth. Because of the long tail moment on all Kaos', keep the tail light. Your 91 should do an excellent job. I imagine your 4 stroker weighs a little more than my 2 stroker, so you probably will be able to mount the air tank, if you use one, behind the wing saddle. Good luck.
#63
RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
ORIGINAL: blw
I have an Ultimate Kaos kit on the way and thought I would ask about any advice before starting to build it. I've seen different Kaos models fly, but have never built one. I'll put a .91 4 stroke in it. I'm not sure about retracts yet.
I have an Ultimate Kaos kit on the way and thought I would ask about any advice before starting to build it. I've seen different Kaos models fly, but have never built one. I'll put a .91 4 stroke in it. I'm not sure about retracts yet.
Mark
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
My Ultimate was also from Direct Connection, 60 size. Never knew they made a 40 size. It has been several years 4 or 5 since I built mine. The wood was definitely on the heavy side. The last time I flew it, I almost lost it due to an unbalanced prop. Must have nicked the tip on takeoff. First time and last time it flew off of grass. If I had not pinned the firewall, the engine would have probably came out. I pin all my firewalls.
#65
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
Okay, and thanks. That is a nice pic. I'll keep that in mind about the firewall. I haven't pinned one yet, but I've wondered about doing that. I like to go on the heavy side with firewalls anyway.
How do you like your ASP 61? I have a very, very old ASP 40 with low time on it. I haven't run it myself yet. The 40s are supposed to be pretty good.
How do you like your ASP 61? I have a very, very old ASP 40 with low time on it. I haven't run it myself yet. The 40s are supposed to be pretty good.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
Pinning is very easy and fast. I use toothpicks. Two on a side.
I have two ASP61's. A ringed version and a non ringed version. The non ringed is in the Ultimate, it does a very good job on flying the old pattern, from the 60's and 70's. I have a APC 12x6 on it, and it has no problems with the patern. It is my first non-ringed engine, and only time will tell whether I like it as well as the ringed. Some of my ringed engines are 40 years old, have had gallons of fuel run thru them, and are still very reliable.
I have two ASP61's. A ringed version and a non ringed version. The non ringed is in the Ultimate, it does a very good job on flying the old pattern, from the 60's and 70's. I have a APC 12x6 on it, and it has no problems with the patern. It is my first non-ringed engine, and only time will tell whether I like it as well as the ringed. Some of my ringed engines are 40 years old, have had gallons of fuel run thru them, and are still very reliable.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
The plans do not show a range, but the CG mark is 4 3/8" from leading edge at the root. About an 1/8" behind the spar. I imagine 4 1/8" to 4 5/8" would be safe. Sorry for the quality of the picture. Mid 60's photo
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
I was looking in my attic today. I found a ultimate kaos 40 kit I forgot I had. The box says it has a 55 7/8 ws. 562 w/area,18oz. loading,52.25 lenght. 4.4 lbs.
What would make a good engine for it? I'm thinking maybe a tt pro 46.
What would make a good engine for it? I'm thinking maybe a tt pro 46.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
I have never had or flown an ultimate 40. I don't believe there is a lot of difference between the kaos 40 and ultimate 40. I don't know if the wing is thinner on the ultimate 40. The 60 size had a little thinner wing and the engine was mounted muffler down/side mounted. The ultimate 60 did not have a lot of beef around the firewall if you installed retracts, so fiberglass cloth and pinning the firewall was a must. Sorry I can't answer your question concerning the 40. I fly my kaos 40's with 46's thru 51's. Lots of speed and lots of power for your maneuvers.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
The root rib is the same as a super. Dont know about the rest. Engine is side mounted also.
It has a built-up stab, solid vertical stab and rudder. Uses kevlar for wing support with no shear webs. At 4.4 lbs. it should be unlimited with a 46. Going taildragger with it.
It has a built-up stab, solid vertical stab and rudder. Uses kevlar for wing support with no shear webs. At 4.4 lbs. it should be unlimited with a 46. Going taildragger with it.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
As I mentioned, I am not familiar with the 40 size version of the ultimate. I do not know when the 40 size versions of the kaos' came out. When I was flying pattern in the late 60's and early 70's, the only 40 size pattern bird I remember that was doing any good was the Mach 8. This was an 80% version of Norm Page's Mach 1. Had a very thin wing, something similar to the pylon racers. Was vrey fast, had lots of side area on the fuse. We didn't have that many hot 40 size engines. The HP 40 was one of the best. Didn't have the 46's with ABC engineering that I remember. Almost everyone was into the 60 size. I didn't start flying the 40 size until I returned from overseas in the late 70's. Good luck, sounds like it should be a screamer.
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
Hello all,
Since we are talking about Kaos's, I have attached photo's of one that was given to me by a fellow club member a few years back. It is one of the Tower 40 kits that was built like a tank!! The engine is was NIB YS53 4-stroke that I won at one of our club events. The prop is a APC 11x8. I know that I really don't have to say this, but the plane flew AWESOME.
On a sadder note, I totally destroyed the plane last year while I was trying out a new radio. Oh well, thats the way the ball bounces some time.
I did have thoughts about buying one of the Tower 40 ARF's, but I have since given the engine to the person that originally given me the plane so I didn't but one.
Fly safe and have fun everyone!!
David
Since we are talking about Kaos's, I have attached photo's of one that was given to me by a fellow club member a few years back. It is one of the Tower 40 kits that was built like a tank!! The engine is was NIB YS53 4-stroke that I won at one of our club events. The prop is a APC 11x8. I know that I really don't have to say this, but the plane flew AWESOME.
On a sadder note, I totally destroyed the plane last year while I was trying out a new radio. Oh well, thats the way the ball bounces some time.
I did have thoughts about buying one of the Tower 40 ARF's, but I have since given the engine to the person that originally given me the plane so I didn't but one.
Fly safe and have fun everyone!!
David
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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO
glad I found this thread.I had a kaos I bought years back loved it but gravity and dumb thumbs brought it down.The wing however survived unscathed.I recently decided to re build it.I bought the rcm plans for the bridi design.the fuse built fast but the wing saddle is a hair short for the wing I have,can I modify the saddle and fit the wing in.? secondly I was intending to use my older supertigre SK61 but it seems very big and awkward. the propshaft hangs out from the nose much longer than the engine shown on the plans.can you sugest a better engine to fit in the nose and still give it power.the supertigre is heavy.perhaps a GS 51 would be easier ..
any advise is appreciated thanks
any advise is appreciated thanks