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KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Old 01-04-2007, 04:14 AM
  #51  
rainedave
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

jgs77, I think that the Clarence Lee .61 would be super for your Kaos, too. I mentioned the Tower because they are so strong and you were looking for lots of power. But, as cwahl, said, the Lee K&B would be in the spirit of the model. Look in the classifieds in Model Aviation for his ad.

Thanks, Ed. I actually remember it getting pretty nasty up-river in Center City Philly when I lived there, too. But the worst place on earth for humidity I have ever lived was Williamsburg, Va. I once hung a pair of jeans out to dry in August in direct sunlight and five days later they were still wet (and there was no rain).
Old 01-05-2007, 12:38 AM
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cwahl
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO


ORIGINAL: jgs77
PDP means getting a new sleeve?
Basically the PDP modification involves drilling holes in the sleeve at precise angles to add small ports that augment and direct the intake gases slightly differently. So no additional parts are required -- it's just a modification to the stock engine, that needs to be done by an expert. HB (Helmut Bernhard) in Germany started by making Veco 61s (the precursor of the K&B, who later bought Veco) under license, and then began selling his own design, very much like the Veco 61. These were available in the box with PDP; strangely enough, neither Veco nor K&B ever offered the engine with PDP. This modification was also done on some Super Tigres, if I remember correctly. As long as the bypass is wide enough at the top, I believe any of these non-Schnuerle engines can be modified that way, provided someone knows what they're doing. John Perry probably invented it, but I don't know if he did this commercially.
Old 01-08-2007, 12:30 AM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO


I tried the link and it wouldn't play.

Someone needs to load a Sultan flying. That would be great.

mightyhorn
Old 01-31-2007, 08:24 PM
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Pylot7
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

You can get a lazer cut short kit of the Super Kaos from http://www.lazer-works.com/ for $39.95 plus shipping.

The short kit is everything but the straight stock parts and is cut according to the RCM plans for the Super Kaos. I just received my short kit and I have to say the work is simply outstanding.

They also included a cardboard tube and cut the ribs to fit over the tube as a building crutch so that the wing comes out straight. I have not built one of these before but fully symmetrical wings are sometimes tough to build perfectly straight.

I have no commercial or other interest in Lazer works but just pass this along as a great way to get a Kaos kit at a very reasonable price.
Old 02-15-2007, 01:18 AM
  #55  
Rube Goldberg
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

"Snoopy". Sun Fli 4-20 Built around 1990 or so, by far my all time favorite RC model in 32 years of the hobby. Powered with a Supertigre G34 it's the ultimate Sunday afternoon touch and go airplane.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:50 AM
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tucker1865
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

I thought I saw it before but I just want to confirm....I have the Tower .40 Kaos kit and a set of Kaos .40 original rib patterns (masonite) and the are different. The original ribs are smaller than the Tower ribs. Is this correct and if so how do they differ in flight. Thanks
Old 02-20-2007, 11:02 AM
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rainedave
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

All I know for certain is that the original Kaos .40 has a 52" span and the Tower version was slightly enlarged to 55" to better accommodate contemporary .46 engines. As far as the root and tip percentages (thickness) I have no idea if or how much they differ. Bridi played around with tip airfoil thicknesses quite a bit between the Sun Fli's, Kaoi, Dirty Birdy and UFO designs. The earlier Sun Fli's had very thin tip airfoils compared to the Kaos, for example.
Old 02-21-2007, 10:32 PM
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susquach
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Speaking of variations on a (Kaos) theme: Bridi made some chamges between the original Kaos and the follw-on Super Kaos. Here are a few he discussed in his RCM Super Kaos construction article.

"The wing ribs remained the same, however, the tips and aileron size as well as the aileron location was changed. The rudder is sligthly smaller, but fuse height has been added in the rear doing away with the sub-rudder. The elevator was brought forward approximately 2 1/2" which helped the Figure M and the spin manuvers."

The wing position was raised 1/4" up and 1/4" forward. The hatch was eliminated for strength in the nose section. A 2 3/4" spinner was used instead of a 2 1/2" diameter unit....the bottom of the tank compartment is also deeper to accept any retract."


Inquiring minds want to know.
Old 03-16-2007, 10:16 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Here's another modification that you might want to consider if you're building the Super Kaos: Lower the stabilizer position about 1 inch.
I have a Super Kaos originally built in 1981 with Goldberg retracts, a Wing Mfg. canopy, and an Irvine .61 (still in flying condition). This single plane has been flown with 3 different stab locations. (1) With the stab in the stock location on top of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the belly when full rudder control was applied to hold knife-edge flight. (2) With the stab relocated to the bottom of the fuselage, the plane would pitch toward the canopy when full rudder was applied during knife-edge. (3) Now, with the stab located 1 inch below the top of the fuselage, the plane will accept full rudder control to hold knife-edge, with no need for elevator correction.
Note: The Dirty Birdy incorporated a lowered stab position.
If you have a stock-design Super Kaos that pitches toward the belly with full rudder application (and you don't have a fancy radio transmitter with computerized mixing), you might try adding 1 inch (height) "skid" plates at the tips of the stab, with the plates running the full chord of the stab-tip, and extending down from the bottom of the stab. This mod can help eliminate the undesired pitching. If the mod. causes the plane to pitch toward the canopy with full rudder application, shave down the height of the tip plates 1/8 of an inch at time, and recheck the plane's response to rudder application.
Old 03-17-2007, 12:12 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Has anyone else scratch built the Kaos 90?
Old 03-30-2007, 12:03 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

I have an Ultimate Kaos kit on the way and thought I would ask about any advice before starting to build it. I've seen different Kaos models fly, but have never built one. I'll put a .91 4 stroke in it. I'm not sure about retracts yet.
Old 03-30-2007, 01:18 PM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

My ultimate has Robart retracts, with a ASP61 for power. The only suggestions I might have are, if you install retracts, beef up the engine firewall a little with glass cloth. Because of the long tail moment on all Kaos', keep the tail light. Your 91 should do an excellent job. I imagine your 4 stroker weighs a little more than my 2 stroker, so you probably will be able to mount the air tank, if you use one, behind the wing saddle. Good luck.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO


ORIGINAL: blw

I have an Ultimate Kaos kit on the way and thought I would ask about any advice before starting to build it. I've seen different Kaos models fly, but have never built one. I'll put a .91 4 stroke in it. I'm not sure about retracts yet.
I had a 40 sized UK years ago, the Direct Connection kit. Built pretty much like every other Kaos variant, simple, no surprises. The wood was a bit heavy and I think I replaced the aileron stock, but it wasn't terrible by any means. Flew the same as the others, as well. Very true, only a tiny bit of roll coupling with rudder. limited knife edge ability with my ST40. Landed very slowly and easily. Great sport/aerobatics trainer.


Mark
Old 03-30-2007, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

My Ultimate was also from Direct Connection, 60 size. Never knew they made a 40 size. It has been several years 4 or 5 since I built mine. The wood was definitely on the heavy side. The last time I flew it, I almost lost it due to an unbalanced prop. Must have nicked the tip on takeoff. First time and last time it flew off of grass. If I had not pinned the firewall, the engine would have probably came out. I pin all my firewalls.
Old 03-30-2007, 08:48 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Okay, and thanks. That is a nice pic. I'll keep that in mind about the firewall. I haven't pinned one yet, but I've wondered about doing that. I like to go on the heavy side with firewalls anyway.

How do you like your ASP 61? I have a very, very old ASP 40 with low time on it. I haven't run it myself yet. The 40s are supposed to be pretty good.
Old 03-30-2007, 09:02 PM
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Pinning is very easy and fast. I use toothpicks. Two on a side.
I have two ASP61's. A ringed version and a non ringed version. The non ringed is in the Ultimate, it does a very good job on flying the old pattern, from the 60's and 70's. I have a APC 12x6 on it, and it has no problems with the patern. It is my first non-ringed engine, and only time will tell whether I like it as well as the ringed. Some of my ringed engines are 40 years old, have had gallons of fuel run thru them, and are still very reliable.
Old 03-31-2007, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

What is the CG range for the original .60 Kaos ?
Old 03-31-2007, 12:33 PM
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The plans do not show a range, but the CG mark is 4 3/8" from leading edge at the root. About an 1/8" behind the spar. I imagine 4 1/8" to 4 5/8" would be safe. Sorry for the quality of the picture. Mid 60's photo
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:56 PM
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antique opa
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

I was looking in my attic today. I found a ultimate kaos 40 kit I forgot I had. The box says it has a 55 7/8 ws. 562 w/area,18oz. loading,52.25 lenght. 4.4 lbs.
What would make a good engine for it? I'm thinking maybe a tt pro 46.
Old 04-17-2007, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

I have never had or flown an ultimate 40. I don't believe there is a lot of difference between the kaos 40 and ultimate 40. I don't know if the wing is thinner on the ultimate 40. The 60 size had a little thinner wing and the engine was mounted muffler down/side mounted. The ultimate 60 did not have a lot of beef around the firewall if you installed retracts, so fiberglass cloth and pinning the firewall was a must. Sorry I can't answer your question concerning the 40. I fly my kaos 40's with 46's thru 51's. Lots of speed and lots of power for your maneuvers.
Old 04-18-2007, 08:16 AM
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antique opa
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

The root rib is the same as a super. Dont know about the rest. Engine is side mounted also.
It has a built-up stab, solid vertical stab and rudder. Uses kevlar for wing support with no shear webs. At 4.4 lbs. it should be unlimited with a 46. Going taildragger with it.
Old 04-18-2007, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

As I mentioned, I am not familiar with the 40 size version of the ultimate. I do not know when the 40 size versions of the kaos' came out. When I was flying pattern in the late 60's and early 70's, the only 40 size pattern bird I remember that was doing any good was the Mach 8. This was an 80% version of Norm Page's Mach 1. Had a very thin wing, something similar to the pylon racers. Was vrey fast, had lots of side area on the fuse. We didn't have that many hot 40 size engines. The HP 40 was one of the best. Didn't have the 46's with ABC engineering that I remember. Almost everyone was into the 60 size. I didn't start flying the 40 size until I returned from overseas in the late 70's. Good luck, sounds like it should be a screamer.
Old 04-26-2007, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Hello all,
Since we are talking about Kaos's, I have attached photo's of one that was given to me by a fellow club member a few years back. It is one of the Tower 40 kits that was built like a tank!! The engine is was NIB YS53 4-stroke that I won at one of our club events. The prop is a APC 11x8. I know that I really don't have to say this, but the plane flew AWESOME.

On a sadder note, I totally destroyed the plane last year while I was trying out a new radio. Oh well, thats the way the ball bounces some time.

I did have thoughts about buying one of the Tower 40 ARF's, but I have since given the engine to the person that originally given me the plane so I didn't but one.

Fly safe and have fun everyone!!
David
Old 04-27-2007, 06:16 AM
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oops!!

I know I loaded the pictures, but I don't know what happened to them. Lets try this again.


Fly safe and have fun!!
David
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Old 06-06-2007, 07:01 AM
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cloudancer03
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Default RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

glad I found this thread.I had a kaos I bought years back loved it but gravity and dumb thumbs brought it down.The wing however survived unscathed.I recently decided to re build it.I bought the rcm plans for the bridi design.the fuse built fast but the wing saddle is a hair short for the wing I have,can I modify the saddle and fit the wing in.? secondly I was intending to use my older supertigre SK61 but it seems very big and awkward. the propshaft hangs out from the nose much longer than the engine shown on the plans.can you sugest a better engine to fit in the nose and still give it power.the supertigre is heavy.perhaps a GS 51 would be easier ..

any advise is appreciated thanks

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