dszabo2

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I am finishing up an Eyeball and I was looking for some advice on how much control surface deflection I should dial in.

Any help is appreciated

Dave

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

As much as you can get without causing the servos to buzz at full throw. Then enable the dual rate function on your Tx with 50% throw for low rate.

Seriously, the secret is not trying to jerk the model around with full deflection for normal turns and flying, not limiting the amount of control throw. This model is NOT a trainer. If more training is needed, look elsewhere for a while, then get back to the Eyeball.

Best of luck to you.

Happy Holidays.


Ed Cregger

dszabo2

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Ed

I am well past the trainer stage. My hanger is filled with 3d type planes which will have as much as 35 - 45 degrees at full deflection and about 10 - 20 degrees on low rate. I know this is a vintage pattern plane and the question is should I set this plane up the same way ? Does it need all that deflection? I expect a difffernt type of flying

Dave

rainedave

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Dave, you want to set this plane up the opposite of the way you set up 3D planes.

Connect the pushrods to the innermost holes on the servo arms and the outermost holes on the control horns.

The goal is to produce as much servo resolution as you can get. You want the controls to be smooth, not jerky or twitchy.

Start with the servos all set to 100% travel in your tx. You can then add in Expo if you want it. You can also increase travel above 100% if you need more throw.

Some here may disagree with me, but there is a huge, noticeable difference between jerky controls and smooth controls with a lot of resolution. It's all in the geometry.

David

RFJ

Dave,

The suggested throws are shown on the original 1969 MAN plan. They are -

Aileron - 1/4" to 3/8" up and down
Elevator - 1/2" to 5/8" up and down (measured at widest point of elevator)
Rudder - all you can get!

I would use the larger figures for hi-rate and the smaller for lo-rate. Forget expo - horrible stuff!

Ray

dszabo2

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Ray

Thank you!! That is the exact information I was looking for.

Dave

Paternguy

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You will find that it takes alot more effort to fly these planes and look good, than it does to thrash about with a 3D type. Things tend to happen a much faster rate with the speed and performance of these type aircraft. As Ed said do not use full deflection, especially at lower airspeeds, these types of models tend to snap roll right into the ground if you do that. You will find the perfect amount of finesse that is required in short order. I would be willing to bet that once you get aquainted to this style of flying/aircraft, that you won't enjoy the 3D stuff as much.

dszabo2

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Patternguy

Actually Ed said to set the deflection to full and then set my low rates to 50%. That would give me about 3/8" deflection on low rates and I my gut instinct figured it would be too much throw. The max theoretical surface throw is based on the gap and the inner angle on the control surface. I have seen some plane able deflect well over 45 degrees, mine is about 30. Therefore saying to go to max throw means nothing and could have been disastrous for me.

That is why I was looking for the recommendations provided by Ray.

Dave

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

-------------


My apologies. I wasn't implying that you were a beginner or a poor pilot. I was trying to make a point, show a certain mindset, but I failed. Sorry about that.

I prefer to work my way backwards, others may not. I've nearly lost other folks' models because they have lacked sufficient control authority. Never came close to losing one on a test flight because they had too much control authority.


Ed Cregger

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

I wouldn't worry too much about the Eyeball being jerky and snapping into
the ground. I had two of them back in "the day" and they were very smooth
and easy to fly. One of the easiest airplanes to land I ever flew even though
they were very fast.

tommy s

dszabo2

My Feedback: (1)

No problems Ed. I am more concerned about the throws on this plane because it is fast. This is the first kit plane and pattern plane for me and unlike ARFs they dont give you this kind of info.

Dave

rainedave

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This is why I recommended setting up the controls with maximum resolution. You want this plane to feel smooth in the air.

David

av8rsodt

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Where can you get the MAN Eureka plans? I do not think they are on the rcstore website for MAN.

Thanks,
Brian

patternwannabee

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Dave,

A word about the rudder.. The plane tends to have significant roll and pitch coupling with rudder. The more you apply rudder, the more severely it rolls and pitches. At first I set the rudder to maximum deflection on Hi rates, and about 75% for low. My first attempt at knife edge was uncontrolled. At full deflection it immediately rolled out of knife edge, and pitched severely. The low rates were much better, and more than sufficient for a rising knife edge. On my current Eyeball, I’ve mixed out most of the coupling, and it’s much easier to handle.

Although a pretty smooth flyer, it does snap abruptly and violently. I think the fuse was designed rather short to accommodate the snappy flight schedules from 1969. This was discussed by Art Schroeder somewhere in this forum. He also discussed the latter versions of the Eyeball in which he lengthened the fuse somewhat.

That being said, I built my first Eyeball per the 69 plans. When it started taking shape, I was surprised at how short the fuse was. Anyway, I was very pleased at how it flew. The recommended throws are good, except I really don’t think you need maximum rudder. Eventually though, I lost it in a high speed stall.. too much abrupt up elevator resulted in loss of control and not enough altitude to recover.

On my second Eyeball, I lengthened the fuse to be much closer to the wingspan thinking that this would smooth out the plane. I also widened the ailerons. Surprisingly, it flies much like the original version. Both planes landed very easily without a hint of tip stalling. You can easily slow down the plane nicely to grease it in.

All in all, I suggest you start with the recommended throws, but be ready to go into low rates on the first flight if you need to. Also, avoid abrupt elevator movements. Rudder rolls the plane in the same direction, and pitches towards the canopy. After your first flight, you’ll have a much better idea what you’ll need to tweak.

NJRCFLYER2

My Feedback: (42)

Dave:
I had an Eyeball back when, and it's not like it's a rocket ship or anything. Mine was fixed gear, with an HP .61 in it. It's a well mannered airplane, no really bad habits, other than the rudder coupling that was mentioned. It handles well at slow speeds. Enjoy it!

Ed

dszabo2

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Patternwannabee

Thanks for the advice. I actually have the mark IV which I believe has a longer tail moment but I quess I can expect the same couplings you talk about. This is my first pattern ship so I am anxious to finish and get into the air.

Dave

dszabo2

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Its been a couple of months since I started this post and I have finally been able to get my Eyball in the air. Nice flying plane, rock steady like its on rails, and it does have the rudder - roll coupling as mentioned.


My question is on the roll rate. With the Ailerons set to high rate, as noted by Ray, I have about 1 1/2 second roll rate. Is this typical for this class of plane? I was expecting a much faster roll.

Dave

Skylane

My Feedback: (3)

Hi,

The three horizontal rolls should take about 5 seconds for the type of pattern this plane was designed for. So, 1.5 sec per roll is just about right.

Jeff

WEDJ

Ditto

patternwannabee

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Dave,

My Eyeball rolls much faster.

You're not trying to roll at slow speed are you?

I can't tell from the picture, but you could also try to seal the aileron hinges if you haven't already done so.

I wasn't aware the wing planform for the MkIV was that different from my version. Mine has a straight TE and more sweep on the LE.

dszabo2

My Feedback: (1)

Patternwannabee

How much deflection do you have dialed in?

The aileron and elevator hinges are sealed on the bottom side and the roll rate I noted is at close to full speed.

The wing is built to plan, however I stated its a Mark IV and I now think its a Mark V. (its been a while since I looked at the box label) I dont know if it makes any difference.

Dave

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

The two Eyeballs I built in the 70's from the original J&J kits had straight trailing edges
with all the taper in the leading edge.

tommy s

patternwannabee

My Feedback: (1)

Dave,

I'm afraid I can't remember the throws I used for my first Eyeball (this was built per the 1969 Man Plans).

In the version I have now, I have elongated the fuse, and increased the depth of the ailerons so that they are 2" from front to TE.

I have for low rates: 3/8" up, 1/4" down

for high rates, 1/2" up, 3/8" down.

On high rates, the roll rate really is too fast for my taste. I estimate that if I were to give full aileron on low rates at close to full throttle, I would get 1-1/2 to 2 rolls per second.

I don't think it would harm anything to try more throw on your ailerons.

It is a little puzzling why yours is rolling slowly. My Eyeballs have been very responsive planes. Although your wing is different from mine, I don't think it would make that much difference.

Good luck.

bipeflr

My Feedback: (8)

Watch out for full power split S. My eyeball sheared the stab off on both sides at the fuse. My stab was 1/4" hard balsa sheet if yours is airfoiled that may be a fix on later versions. There were numerous failures like mine Art suggested it was caused by too much power.I had used a Webra Speed. Your engine appears to be an O.S. 60 if so it has more power than my Webra. Dont mean to scare you otherwise it was a great pattern plane. Good luck, Jim.

dszabo2

My Feedback: (1)

patternwannabee

My high rates are = to you low rates. I will increase my high rate throw to 1/2 inch like you have and see what happens.

bibflr

I have an Irvine 60 vintage 1995 installed. Not sure how that compares to a Webra but it moves it pretty good.

Dave