I've never been to a pattern contest. But I'm sport flyer who has always loved the look and presentation of the older high powered pattern birds, and I'm toying with the idea of competing "someday" in SPA.

I'm pleased about recent classic pattern activity, but a little concerned with a trend towards (more) noise and what it could mean for contests and other gatherings held in the name of vintage pattern. I know there is a big difference between "perceived" noise vs an actual dB reading in a given environment. I applaud the SPA philosophy of keeping things easier and more fun, but I'm curious how the SPA views the noise topic overall.

I'd like to attend a local SPA contest just to see what the flavor of events like this is like, but I wonder if it would really be representative of SPA contests around the country-- especially when considering equipment, flying styles and opinions on "the best" way to proceed in the future. In doing web searches, I couldn't find much info on SPA rules for noise. I found only one newsletter which warned about a noise limit for a local contest:

http://www.seniorpattern.com/newsletter/marapr2C.pdf

Here's a simple question: Is SPA at all concerned about noise?

I see no mention of noise restrictions or noise tests in the SPA rules:
http://www.seniorpattern.com/rules.asp

I see tuned muffler accessories (ie Jett, Ultrathrust) ARE allowed and this surprises me as it opens the door for more noise and complexity which I thought the SPA was trying to avoid. I know modern pattern has made great strides toward developing high performance AND quiet systems with which people can practice at their home fields without annoying the neighbors. (Modern) Pattern competition has always led the way in this tecnnology, right? However, I gather modern planes and styles have migrated from where the average sport flyer's interests and budgets lie-- and many former participants?

I see this opinion on "Grumpy's pattern page" and wonder how universaly shared it is : "The noise rule is unfair"
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/35...rnPolitics.htm

I agree with Grumpy's observation that other corners of R/C don't seem to care as much about noise. We've always seen pylon races to be noisy events-- we expect it. However, a Q40 or Q500 flyer doesn't need to practice to the degree a pattern flyer does. Many many hours are required. On the other hand, a 3D or IMAC flyer now continually practices with far noisier equipment than a modern pattern flyer, correct? I may be behind the times, but I assume modern pattern is still the quietest form of powered aerobatic competition in existence, as mandated by noise measurements at each and every contest? Does it still need to be that way? Maybe I'll ask this someday in a different forum.

I'm sure you've seen this before:
A vintage plane flyer starts up a screaming piped 11x7 swinging motor in the pits. He faces the runway and his prop blast reaches 20 feet behind him as he carefully tunes his screaming marvel. Families having lunch nearby observe: napkins go flying, babies start to cry and mothers scurry to gather their kids a safe distance. However, almost to a man, pilots look and admire as everyone on the field knows an exciting flight is about to begin. This spectacle-- so common in yesteryear, is reminiscent of any jet age airshow. The adrenaline builds and expectations soar high. As these planes fly their patterns with blistering speed AND noise, their presentation is like no other ever seen in model aviation. That's the rush which a BPA flyer craves. I'm wondering how much a "typical SPA flyer" tolerates this and I can't seem to find the spirit in the law anywhere. I'm not trying to insinuate that the "typical SPA flyer" is a dried up old codger who can't have fun anymore-- far from it. I just want to know what is enjoyed, expected and tolerated.

Here's another simple question: It seems most SPA flyers are now flying old designs with new 4 stroke engines, correct?

I can understand this. If my primary goal is to actually WIN such a contest, I'd probably choose a 4 stroke too. I love 4 strokes for many reasons and own several of them for 3D flying, and I see how they would make my life easier both at contests and when practicing pattern. However, the allure just isn't the same. The (loud high pitch) sound is part of the fun (which I miss in other R/C venues). I think most BPA flyers agree:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_65..._3/key_/tm.htm
"BPA and Noise -- Guilty as Charged" - M Hester

Now, to bring this to a sharpened point: I think I can still build a plane that is a supremely noisy screamer and fly within SPA rules, correct?

Take a Jim Martin Banshee, and put a Jett 60 LX in the nose. Also install retracts for good measure, but realize they won't be used at SPA contests. Is this ok? Is it in the "spirit" of what SPA allows and encourages?

I really don't know if a Banshee with this motor could be competitive in the right hands, but for the moment, I don't care-- the very idea excites me. I know it would also excite a lot of people at my club. I'm fortunate to fly at several sites locally that don't have noise restrictions or neighbors. I'm wondering how welcome I'd be at SPA contests if I decided to compete more widely? I'm also wondering if it is simply "understood" that SPA contests will be held at fields similar to mine-- having virtually no noise restrictions?

I'm also wondering how this factors in SPA and BPA concerns with attracting "new blood"? I'd wager fast (BPA style) screaming planes will have more recruiting power to novices and sport flyers who aspire to command such beasts. They're the stuff of legends. However, this is double edged sword which I'm sure I don't need to preach here. Is there wisdom within SPA to addresses this? I can't seem to find it online, but maybe that's because I'm not looking in the right places. Pardon my ignorance if so and please enlighten me.

It seems that current SPA members and BPA "members" are at an "agree to disagree" point in their evolutions. BPA is relatively new. From what I can see, it is a fledgling group of individuals who meet mostly online or in Huntsville or Florida. SPA is a fully mature organization which has done a great job to revive the old arts and bring them back to a higher degree of popularity. However, BPA enthusiasts feel left out. If both groups aspire to grow and coexist, I think it would be good to clearly define the relationship. I know you're struggling to do just that and keep it fun at the same time. I hope my questions help in this regard.

thanks,
Joe Chovan

Hi Joe,

We're going to have several SPA events in the NorthEast this year. Saten Island, CT, Northern NJ. It's a bit of a drive from Syracuse, but not impossible.

Nic

PS - join us at the WRAMS Show Saturday, 2.00 pm in the model display room. Organizational SPA meeting.

Excellent WEDJ. I will look for and attend these if possible. I've marked my calendar for Saturday 2 PM.

I realize my questions may require a paragraph or two to fully address, however, I'm surprised there is no mention of sound, noise, or the justification of some tuned exhaust systems (to the exlusion of longer tuned pipe systems) anywhere in official posted SPA rules or philosophy web pages.

Just a layman's response to the noise issue. Having attended several events(Hunstsville, Orlando) where both the SPA and BPA planes flew together, I did not notice any real difference in the noise level of either type.

In partial answer to your questions:

SPA and BPA, unlike the AMA, NSRCA, & FAI are only "grass roots" organizations, and do not have to comply with national standards imposed by current national rules.

Contests are promoted by the local sponsoring club, and noise regulations, if any, are the club's responsibilitiy to enforce.

Back in the 70"s, there were no noise regulations in the AMA rule book. Since SPA follows those rules, it makes sense that the issue of noise is not a national regulation issue in SPA, but a local one.

Does that help? Anyone else want to chime in? I can't even say for sure if my opinions (above) are correct with SPA management. But they are logical.

Having flown pattern at the height of the flow-thru muffler and tuned pipe era, I can say that my DA100 with stock mufflers and a 28-10 on it makes as much or more noise at full tilt. Yes, it sounds different, but still is not quiet.

SPA rules don't really follow the actual trends of the time for the planes that are on there approved list.

Jeff

Wind Junkie, just wondering, why are you're getting all worked up about noise?[sm=72_72.gif]

I'm concerned with noise because I want to build a "screaming Banshee" that I can use in future SPA competition, if things work out that way. Not sure when I'll have time to build and compete, but I'd like to know how such a plane will be received.

What I'm hearing now is that noise is not really of global concern, which I like. This implies practitioners will act responsibly so as not to abuse this freedom.

I'm also trying to understand the difference between BPA and SPA having a perspective of a total outsider. It seems that the infrastructure and philosophy of the SPA are what I like, but I'm having a hard time understanding why SPA rules outlaw long pipes or rear exhaust pipes but not short ones. I guess the only other rules I see which are different between the groups is that the BPA allows bigger planes and engines than the SPA, and the list of acceptable planes may be different based on date of design.

It's obvious that SPA has "stuck to its guns" in regard to opening up it's rules to be more inclusive, and I'd simply like to understand the reasons behind this decision.

When my father told me not do do something, I was the pesky child who always had to ask, "But why Daddy?" I guess I never grew up.

SPA focuses on air craft 1975 and older no tuned pipe or retracts.

BPA wing limit of 72in (or so) motors to 1.2, pipes and retracts allowed.


same style of flying, non turnaround patterns.

In my opinion pipes are not as loud as 4c on standard exhaust.

simple but distinct differances


gary

This may not be politcally correct, but my take on the SPA is it was setup by a few people who like to use 4-strokes and didn't like messing with retracts. That is why they allow alterations to the planes to use the 4-strokes. It has nothing to do with noise. It is still mostly a southeast region series. It's spreading a little but would really spread if they allowed the proper equipment of the time to be utilized. This is obviously my opinion and others will agree to disagree and that's okay. No malice meant by it. I like that something akin to the old pattern is taking hold in some form.

Jeff