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Best performance classic pattern plane

Old 02-20-2008, 11:16 PM
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alcarafa
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Default Best performance classic pattern plane

I'd like to know your opinion on this subject :

In your perception from all classic pattern planes wich ones are the 3 with best aerobatic performance? I grew up flying Kaos, Mach 1 and some others.

After all these years In my opinion this are the 3 I liked best : CURARE, BLUE ANGEL & MAGIC.

Since daggets here at the forum send me a free copy of the curare plans, I decided to build one, already got the balsa and some hardware, last night I cut the wings out of foam and hope to see the plane flying soon.

So lets see your preferences.

Good landings 2 all U.

Rafa
Old 02-21-2008, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

put me down for the Superstar Mk 3.

beautiful, graceful, smooth.
Old 02-21-2008, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

My (2) favorites are the Mach 1 and the Dirty Birdy.
Old 02-21-2008, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Atlanta, Tipo 750, EU1-A
Old 02-21-2008, 08:05 AM
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tommy s
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

A really trimmed out Tipo with a strong engine would be hard to beat.

tommy s
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:17 AM
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RFJ
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

put me down for the Superstar Mk 3.
Obviously a gentleman of discernment! I agree completely. The Superstar is a most underated design but was the best of it's era (IMHO)

Ray
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:38 AM
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propbuster
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane


ORIGINAL: RFJ

put me down for the Superstar Mk 3.
Obviously a gentleman of discernment! I agree completely. The Superstar is a most underated design but was the best of it's era (IMHO)

Ray
Okay, where can one get the plans for this Beauty you guys have been hiding on the other side of the pond for so long?
Old 02-21-2008, 11:53 AM
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BTerry
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

That Superstar is a Matt design, isn't it?
Old 02-21-2008, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

To enter this discussion is to pull into the fast lane to political suicide but IMHO
1. Tiger Tail by Ron Chidgey
2. Mach 1 by Norm Page
3. Dirty Birdy by Joe Bridi

I would be a purist and use a Webra 61BH in any of these but an OS 55AX should be awesome.

Oh well another election lost!!!!!

Peace

Mark O
Old 02-21-2008, 03:27 PM
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RFJ
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

The only source I know for the plan is [link]http://www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/[/link] but, be warned, they have a reputation for being real slow in fulfilling orders. Plan number is RC 1056.

Yes, Superstar was designed by Wolfgang Matt and that is him in the photograph.

Ray
Old 02-21-2008, 04:42 PM
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nxtdoor
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

My dad built and flew a Superstar from plans back then. It has always been a beautiful design.

In the 70's, World Engines sold a plastic Lanier type SuperStar which both of us flew for awhile. Too heavy for the engines of the time though.

My pick is the Curare. Maybe because my best results came using it is why. Almost finished with my new on

Jeff
Old 02-21-2008, 05:16 PM
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flywilly
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

OK,
first, define 'classic'.
Since you did request best performance then aesthetic appeal should be secondary .
From the '60' I'll go with the Taurus and the Kwik-Fli, based mostly on their popularity as I never flew either design.
Joe Bridi's Kaos was sort of a landmark design and resulted in several more excellent Bridi designs (I think the Kaos appeared around 1971??).
Jim Kirkland's Intruder design flew well, but it was his 2-part article in MAN which included detailed information about flight trimming that really makes it notable.
The legendary 'Tipo' may have been the most popular design ever (at least here in the USA).
The EU-1A had a substantial following, especially in the Northeast where I can remember seeing 10 or more show up at local contests (I think it was Jeff Urcan, Lance Murphy and Art Fressola who got the 'movement' started, the the RI contingent had some <Dick Dupres, maybe others>; Don Krafft had one, the Canadians who came down from Nova Scotia <Dave Smith for sure> and some I can't remember). The EU-1A presented really well (geez, it was huge at the time), but hot and/or windy weather was the major achilles heel as they tended to be heavy (10+ lbs) and as a result suffered a bit in the power department (but, those Rossis really worked hard). Hence the nickname EU-ton.

I'm going to define 'best performance' as longevity with the original designer and a high level of success, for the sake of arguement and so I can justify my list
Arrow - Matt liked it enough to fly the prototype in 2 World Championships and whatever competitions in between (more than 2,000 flights on it at the '83 WC)
Silent ST - Naruke flew the same design (I don't think it was the same airplane) from '87 to '89 or '90 (again, in 2 WC)
Mistress - Dave von Linsowe flew his .60 powered design for 3-4 years in the mid '80s with consistent success (top 10 finishes at the Nats)
Malibu - Bill Cunningham campaigned his design for several years as well

This is not necessarily my list of personal favorites, either!

-Will Bartlett
Old 02-21-2008, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Will,

I used to fly with Jeff, Art & Lance - at the meadows in Rocky Hill - early to mid-80's. Yes, they flew the EU1-A's, Rossi's screaming to get just enough performance. Wow, memories. Were you there back then? Remember Bill Commerford?

Jeff went on to do a business of custom Rotor blades for choppers, then moved down south and I lost track of him. Art & Lance now do large 3-D, and just joined the R/C Propbusters in Salem, CT, where I belong.

Nic
Old 02-21-2008, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Nic:
Didn't Bill Comerford have a Dirty Birdy 40 with a 60 up front. I thought he had a little extra performance. Then remember when the "Cricket phase" hit the meadows. We all had those little helis for a while. Fred Schnieder had an EU-1A also but I think he used an OS VF for a while with an Ace Silver Seven as opposed to the Rocky Hill standard JR Unlimited 8 radios. I still can see those "Mile Out" turnarounds to get the speed for the next manuver.

Peace

Mark O
Old 02-22-2008, 02:33 AM
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alcarafa
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Will I refered to best aerobatic performance, there are many pattern planes ( so called ) that are a pain in the neck to fly with " x " problems on their design and dont perform so well during "x" maneuvers, sometimes you have to leave the looks aside and focus on performance.

For example the Kaos is not at all a beautiful design with intrincated shapes, but oh boy it flies so well, tiporare on the other side is a plane plane whose design with more stylized lines has a performance comparable to Kaos in acrobatic performance, both fly almost perfect.

This is not a thread about the best looking plane, Im trying to find out your opinion on wich 3 have fewer defects during flight, due to say not so good design.

I have it clear that any plane, depending on the weather conditions needs corrections during flight, especially flying a predetermined pattern.

But that is not the point, what is involved is to know your opinion on which three have better acrobatic performance.

Regards.
Rafa
Old 02-22-2008, 02:38 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Proflip, Where you get plans for Superstar 3? RCM&E have SS1 (Illustrated) and SS2 plans, but although I have photos of the 3 I haven't seen plans or an explanation of the mods to turn a 2 to a 3. (SS1 non retract, SS2 has retracts). But you are right, a most capable design. I have a 2 which I use for pattern, and it's still competitive. For those still trying to make up their minds might I suggest the RCM&E (all wood) 'Atlas'? Comes in about 7lb and is a slight improvement on Superstar, nothing I can put my finger on, just seems to do things a wee bit smoother. And it even seems to be nicer to fly than my Curare, so there you are. Blue Angel too is a spectacular model in the air, but I find it slightly more difficult to fly in competition due to the swept wing. Nothing to do with what it does, but I find it not so easy to tell when I am 'wings level' when lining up that next centre maneuver.
Evan. WB #12.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:09 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

My three Superstars were all glass and foam versions with a Webra 61 up front.
They were all owned in the 70s long before I started in F3A. I still regard them as some of the most beautiful models I ever flew.

btw,,,,,,,,,I'm glad that I made the comment now in order to put this amazing looking (and flying) model in the spotlight.
I only wish that vintage aerobatics were still flown in the U.K. I know that it was done in the 90s but seems to have died a death.
Old 02-22-2008, 04:14 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane


ORIGINAL: piroflip2
I only wish that vintage aerobatics were still flown in the U.K. I know that it was done in the 90s but seems to have died a death.
Put yourself another Superstar together...Take it out to the field and "Remind Them" how cool it is...I'd imagine a super slow roll with the Webra61 on the pipe about 8' off the deck will help "encourage" others to go down to the basement and dust off their vintage ships...

People just forget...

Chuck
Old 02-22-2008, 04:43 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane


ORIGINAL: navav2002


ORIGINAL: piroflip2
I only wish that vintage aerobatics were still flown in the U.K. I know that it was done in the 90s but seems to have died a death.
Put yourself another Superstar together...Take it out to the field and "Remind Them" how cool it is...I'd imagine a super slow roll with the Webra61 on the pipe about 8' off the deck will help "encourage" others to go down to the basement and dust off their vintage ships...

People just forget...

Chuck
Hi Chuck

Nothing would give me greater pleasure. Unfortunately, whilst I had oodles of spare time in those days I haven’t anymore. I’m reduced to flying ARTFs in modern comps.
Maybe next year I should freak out the opposition by turning up with a Superstar though I doubt if anyone does the time saving glass and foam bits these days.

Regards piroflip
Old 02-22-2008, 06:04 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Piroflip, probably not, but the SS2 in the pic next to the Atlas only took around 4 weeks, it's a pretty simple build. Took me almost as long to get the gear in as it took to build, and if you get the SS1 plan without retracts, it might be even quicker. As to the first question, which of the listed models is the all round best, I would have to rank them Blue Angel, Curare and a distant 3rd, Magic. Just from the models of them I have flown, you understand.
Evan.
Old 02-22-2008, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Hi Nic,
Yes, I remember Bill Comerford. Wasn't he Jeff's flying partner and 'right hand man'? As I recall Jeff injured his back and had a lot of time to fly, but needed assistance lifting stuff which was Bill's job .
I flew with the SNHRC group (Bob Brodeur, Irv Searle, Drew Davenport, etc.) from about 1976 until I moved to upstate NY in 1984. I competed for another 5 years in the Northeast before moving to Wilmington, NC in August of '89.
I remember you flew a demonstration flight at the '83 contest at the Sikorsky airport in Stratford, CT. of the 'new' turnaround pattern. You were flying a 'Patty (of course ). I recall one of the maneuvers was knife edge flight and seeing the very visible color scheme on the bottom of your plane (black leading edge with alternating black and white bars behind). Some guys were excited about the change others were obviously not. It seemed quite a few of the top fliers in the northeast quit as a result of turnaround pattern.
Glad to hear Lance and Art are still flying, I recall they quit pattern to fly helicopters competitively.
-Will BArtlett
Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane


ORIGINAL: flywilly

<snip>This is not necessarily my list of personal favorites, either!<snip>

-Will Bartlett
So Will...How about your list...

I don't feel I have the "Right" to comment in this thread because I have not flown any of these guys...I'm glad to see my precious Atlanta was at the top of Nic's list!! (Now where is my Aurora?? [X(] )

Good Stuff...

Chuck
Old 02-22-2008, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Will, Mark,

Yes Jeff Urcan has a work injury that put him on permanent disability. We all started with Crickets, then Art & Lance went gung-ho. Bill suffered a stroke that left him quite incapacitated. I don't remember Bill's overpowered DB, however.
Old 02-22-2008, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Me & my cricket - 1985, Durham fairgrounds.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: Best performance classic pattern plane

Bill Commerford with a MasterKit .60 Pattie - F'glass fuselage.
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