crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

KLX - You want me to check out my Vertigo wing cores ? Trailing edge ?

Crank

KLXMASTER14

Crank,
Measure the thickness of the T.E. at the root. I will compare this dimension with the cores that I have on hand.

Robert

KLXMASTER14

BTW- the P-6 is looking mighty nice.

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

KLX - TE on Vertigo Core's : 1/2" thick TE. Piece of newspaper in Skyglas box, dated November 10, 1975. The other Vertigo fuselage I have, you could put them together, exactly alike.

Crank

KLXMASTER14

Crank,

I will check the TE dimensions tonight. I suspect that you have the "good" cores. This is based upon the fact that they are white gel-coated. Please hang on to that piece of newspaper. It is the closest thing to real documentation regarding SPA legality. I would like to get this airplane documented as SPA legal. It would give SPA flyers another option for a great flying airplane, as well as a future market for same.

The fuselage I am buuilding up is not gel-coated, and shows signs of really worn out tooling. The integral mount is crooked (left thrust), and the fuse is twisted or warped in the wing saddle section. I will have to jig it straight, and lay in a layer of 6 oz. glass to straighten it up. The Skyglas quality was marginal anyway.

Also, I am in process of aquiring a Rossi .61 w/pipe for this bird. My fortunes are slowly changing for the better these days. I will have to remove the existing firewall/engine mount and install a new firewall so I can get the thrust line straight. I will probably add some glass reinforcement as necessary. That old brittle glass holding back that Rossi is a little scary.

I am also contemplating whether to wrap the sheeting around the wing leading edge, or face it off and use a balsa sick there and round it off. Pros and cons to both.

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

KLX - I always wrapped them, and will wrap on next project's. I learned from D. Brown, lot of time in his basement in the old days, cutting cores, building Phoenix', drinking beer, doing a lot of bench flying. He weighed every piece that went in his planes. Use 6" X 36" matched sheets, 1/16" thick. After butt glue the skins, and sanding, readied cores, used Sorghum on core and sheet. Sand core's where needed, put TE vertical down, mark skin's L & R, for center, follow grain for set on LE. Get secured, then wrap the rest. I believe we would wet the sheets from there, to wrap with no splitting the skin. I am just going from memory here, and everyone has their own method. Some guy's use wax paper, then pull it out. I was never good at that. These cores in this Vertigo, very straight.
Crank

KLXMASTER14

The part I like about the wrap method is that the LE radius is preformed, and accurate. At least as accurate as the cores are cut. And lightweight. The downside is the thin LE skin is easily dinged. I use epoxy for skinning, and this presents a challenge for the wrapped skins. I don't think that is a show stopper by any means. The demise of my old Vertigo II was not crash damage, but skin separation, and the brittleness of the polyester resin of the fuselage. That is why I now use epoxy. For longevity of the airframe.

Both you and I were very fortunate to have worked with/for some of the masters of the day. I am grateful to them, and for these forums where we can share and pass this stuff onto others. What we may have taken for granted back in the day seems to be scarce knowledge today.

RFJ

The Vertigo II was reviewed in the December 1976 issue of RCM and SPA legal is December 1975 or earlier. Reviews usually happen shortly after a kit is released but, going by Cranks piece of newspaper, perhaps not this one.

This is the earliest ad I could find for the kit. It is from the March 1976 issue of RCM. Nearly there !!!

Ray

KLXMASTER14

Ray,
Thank you for that information. Here is the text of an e-mail that I sent to RCM:

"Hello,

I am a "classic pattern" enthusiast, and I am seeking documentation showing that the pattern airplane known as the "Vertigo II", kitted by Skyglas Fabricators during the mid 1970's was designed prior to December of 1975. This date is the cutoff date for an airplane design to be eligible for competition in the "Senior Pattrn Association", a special interest group that promotes pre-turnaround style R/C pattern competition.

My own involvement with this airplane occurred back in the mid 1970's, where as a teenage boy, (and RCM subscriber) I built and flew several of these airplanes. I originally learned of this airplane through an ad in RCM. Ihave also been informed that RCM did a review of this kit in the December 1976 issue. I am now resurrecting this classic design as are other builders, and it would be very positive if it can be approved for SPA competition.

I would like to know if you have any of these back issues, either in print, or in electronic format, and their availability for purchase. At a minumum, a photocopy of an advertisement from a back issue (December 1975 or prior) on the same of the December 1976 review would be sufficient to show that the design meets the SPA eligibility criteria. My goal here is to aquire this documentation for submission to the SPA.

Any help that you can provide would be deeply appreciated by myself, and the classic pattern community. Of course, I will be more than happy to cover the costs of any material that you can provide.

Best regards,
Robert Fish"

Hopefully, they will be able to help out. If so, I will send the documents to Mickey at SPA and get this airplane on the approved list.

Thanks again,
Robert

KLXMASTER14

Ray,

You are the man!!! That is the ad that got this whole thing started for me back when I was just a lad. Now, if we could only get them for $69.95.....

Thanks,
Robert

WEDJ

If RCM ran an ad in March 76, then the ad would have to have been finished and artwork submitted at least 3 months earlier, if not 4. No computer shortcuts back then. That means the plane had to be designed, built, flown, photographed AND KITTED long before Dec 75.

KLXMASTER14

That is absolutely correct!!!! If RCM can't help, I think I will take all of this info and submit it to Mickey at SPA. Information for many of these airlpanes is sketchy or non-existant. Hopefully, He,they will accept what we have come up with. After all, we are not in court!!!

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

More Info - The #1 Vertigo I have, is in the original box. There is no shipping date on this box, only info from the guy that sent it to me. The second picture, shows the box spec's, and name of the company that made it. No mfg. date. I have had some older Skyglas shipping boxe's, with same company label as on this one, and they were wider, same length and depth. This is the box that has the Nov. 1975 newspaper in it.

Crank

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

As far as the Vertigo for SPA, I thought it was a no-brainer. For SPA Novice, almost anything goes. Wasn't there an original Vertigo, then a Vertigo II ? As far as I know, these Vertigo's I have are II's. Here is more input.

The guy I got the Bluehead's and the Vertigo fuselage from, bought it in 1974. Sam year he bought the Bluehead's and the 1974 vintage OS Blackhead I have.

Crank

KLXMASTER14

Crank,

Here is what I know of the lineage of the Vertigo II:

1. First picture of the square boxy thing is a British design called "Vertigo" that is in no way related. Photo courtesy of Classic Pattern Image site.

2. Second picture (incorrectly) labeled Vertigo II. This may be Vertigo I. coutesy of the Classic Pattern Image site.

3. Third picture: One of my beautiful Vertigo II's.

Indeed anything goes for SPA novice, but I would like to see it be approved for the upper classes as well. The troops should be able to choose such an excellent performer for SPA competition, IMHO.

Robert

RFJ

Looks more like a Blue Angel to me.

Robert,

I checked back in my old RCMs but unfortunatly can't find any mention of the Vertigo II earlier than the March 76 ad I posted. If RCM can't help I can send you a scan of the December 76 review. There is also an interesting article in the August 74 issue about a visit to the Skyglass facility showing how the kits were made.
Need your e mail adress to send these as pdfs if you are interested.

Ray

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Pulled this from another post. Compare fuselage's.

Crank

KLXMASTER14

Crank, looks mighty close. The nose looks a little longer and the wing a little lower on the one in the ad, but who knows?

RFJ- I PM'd you with th my e-mail address.


Regards,
Robert

KLXMASTER14

The quest for the Vertigo II to be SPA legal has been accomplished, thanks to the assistance of Crankpin, RFJ, KingAltair, and WEDJ. Sadly, LaCerne informs us of the recent passing of Mr. Bob Reuther, who along with Tom Moore designed our beloved Vertigo II. I am dedicating this build thead to his memory.

Here is the wing section, in AutoCad, for importation in Alibre. I will use this for the new plans, templates, etc. I will post periodic updates as this phase of the project progresses. It is fun and interesting to introduce technologies that did not exist back when this aircraft was originally conceived.

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Hello everyone;

I just spoke with Tom Moore by phone.....designer of the Vertigo II. We spent a great hour discussing the background of the plane, and vintage pattern in general. I'm trying to get Tom to tune into this forum for his own commentary.

Researching these vintage planes is a real "blast" for me

The Vertigo II was based on the Phoenix VI...you can think of it as a possibly "improved" or refined VI with some "Intruder" influences. Tom still has the original drawings. The plane was designed in the fall of 1975, and was marketed in the early part of 1976.

Tom...thanks for your time and for sharing your knowledge with me. I think I'd like to do a write-up for the SPA newsletter with my new-found information.

Duane

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Good going Duane. Thanks for the time and effort.

Crank

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Thank Dave Burton of the (future) Carolina Chapter of SPA....who gave me Tom's e-mail address. Tom prefererd the phone, and I was glad about that...you can cover a lot more ground that way

I gave Tom the link to the Classic Pattern forum. I hope Tom gets addicted to this forum like the rest of us[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Duane

8178

My Feedback: (17)

"2. Second picture (incorrectly) labeled Vertigo II. This may be Vertigo I. coutesy of the Classic Pattern Image site."





Looks like an early Blue Angel before they modified the tail.

TFF

I just walked into my local hobby shop at lunch today; looked up on the shelf to find what? A Vertigo II fuse and plans! I grabbed it fast, wandered around a second and went to the counter and asked what they wanted for it. Walked out with it for $10! It's the one in white gel coat; no cracks, not cut into. I always wanted one as a kid; I guess I need to find some cores or make some.

KLXMASTER14

I thought so- the Vertigo was based on the P-6. Put the two sideby-side and it is obvious. Vertigo mania is catching on! I hope that Tom Moore does get involved here. That would be cool.

-Robert