Hi guys. I have built many planes from kits and short kits over the years and I have accumulated a large pile of scrap balsa and ply. Lots of big pieces. I was wondering if you guys might suggest a good design to pick for a totally scratch built ballistic pattern project. Doesn't have to be SPA legal... so 1970's or 80's are fine.

I would do it straight from plans (and maybe foam wing cores if the design calls for it). I have a Rossi .60 side exhaust with a pipe and a set of Spring Air's doing nothing but collecting dust. I have built the Eureka Troublemaker and had success with it... learned a lot about how these birds go together. So , I'm thinking I could do it.

I guess the plans would need to show templates for the bulkheads and ribs though... I'm not THAT good! hehe

Suggestions appreciated!

Dave

My first choice would be the Deception. A great flier and easy to scratch build.

Your Rossi 60SE with pipe would have been the motor of choice IMO

The Spring Air's would finish the plane off nicely “Gear up is a necessity for me� . Plans, cores, and canopies are readily available.

One of my Favorites of the era.

I opted for the Bridi designed Dirty Birdy 60, when in your position. Try to locate a "belly mount" style nose gear before commiting the model one way or the other. The firewall mount nose gear does not leave enough room in the fuel tank compartment, as far as I'm concerned. Even the big Bridi "Deception" was cramped when using the firewall mounted Rom-Air gear.

The Dirty Birdy 60 will absolutely wail with a Rossi 60 with pipe doing the propulsion chores.

Will it be any better than your Troublemaker? I don't know. While I do have the Troublemaker kit, I haven't assembled it as yet. My bet would be that the Troublemaker would fly a tad faster in level flight and rolling maneuvers, but would wander and plow a bit through the pitch maneuvers, because of the sweep of the wing. You probably need to fly both designs (if you haven't previously) to know which style suits your style best.

Show us how you're doing with some pics now and then. Good luck.


Ed Cregger

I definately like both!

What about the Eureka short kits? What's the best (in your opinion) ballistic ship they offer (pipe+retract capable)? Maybe the $100 or so would be worth saving some cutting.

How about a Wolfgang Matt Atlas? The Super Star / Atlas / Arrow series got Wolfgang Matt a place in the top three in the World Championship from 1973 to 1981. He was World Champion with the Atlas in 1975.

The Atlas is designed for retracts and a side exhaust 60 mounted sideways (Webra Speed 61 on Matt's plane - your Rossi should be just as good a fit and probably more powerful), and was flown without a pipe to a win in the '75 Worlds and with a pipe to a third place in the '77 worlds.

Leave the pipe off and the retracts down and it's SPA legal, and what's more it's the latest World Championship winner from the SPA-legal era. Put a pipe on it and retract the gear and it's BPA capable in the same trim as got Wolfgang Matt 3rd place in the Worlds in '77. And you can make it with a plug-in stab if you like and get adjustability for your stab incidence and ease of transport. The published plans for the Arrow show a plug-in stab, the ones for the Atlas show a fixed stab. They are otherwise very closely related, the Arrow was basically an Atlas with a rear exhaust setup (upright engine and fuse-top pipe) and a plug-in stab.

[link=http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/pattern/patterna.htm]Trenton RC Flyers Classic Pattern Image Database[/link] shows the Atlas with photos, images of the plans and links to where the plans can be bought, there are also images for the Arrow on the same page.

[link=http://www.mybloo.com/coosbay/laser/beaver.htm]Passtime Hobbies[/link] offers an Atlas short kit with built up wings at 86 dollars with plans redrawn by CAD. I have no idea how good these short kits and plans are, I only know of them from the Web, but the price is certainly attractive. There must be other forum members with direct experience of Passtime Hobbies products.

I think [link=http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/accessories/wing_kits.htm]Eureka Aircraft[/link] can supply a short kit for the Atlas. They only list foam wings for the Atlas on their website but [link=http://www.oldskoolairplanes.com/Pricing_and_info.html]Old Skool Airplanes[/link] sell ARC Atlases and Curares which, as far as I know, start life as Eureka short kits. So Eureka may well be able to supply an Atlas short kit. Old Skool offer a choice of built up or foam wings so Eureka may well offer the same choice. Asking Eureka can't hurt. Again I have no experience of Eureka's products but I am sure other forum members will be able to comment.

Best regards.

Wow, Atlas looks really cool, and the Rossi pipe would run nicely under the wing.

Have a look at the two plan sheets on the [link=http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/pattern/patterna.htm]Trenton Classic Pattern Image Base.[/link] They show outlines for all ribs and formers and come with a bill of materials. The construction is fairly simple for this type of ship.

If I were you I'd order the [link=https://secure.rcstore.com/pcd/eServCart?iServ=MDY3QUo0NjYzMSZpVHlwZT1QQVRURVJO]Plans for both the Arrow and Atlas.[/link] That would show you the evolution of the 1975 World Champs winner into the 1979 World Champs winner. I'd incorporate the plug in stab from the Arrow into the Atlas using some [link=http://www.centralhobbies.com/control_linkage/adjustable_stab/stable.html]modern adjustable stab hardware.[/link]

Best regards.

Dont for the Cosmos...
It is a ide exhaust, I think this builder may have modified his to rear exhaust making it an Aurora, but this is how it looks... just with a side mounted, side exhaust engine. Simular to the Atlas.
I would choose btwenn the Bridi UFO, Bridi Dirty Birdy, MK Cosmos, MK Atlas or the MK Curare. Too many beautiful plane to coose from.


DM

Actually either Atlas or the older Superstar 2 would be very suitable. The all wood versions shown are both under 7 lb and with the .60 two strokes are really not underpowered, not too fast, although they do eat up the sky, and are both very honest (neutral) aeroplanes. Both could be flown 'SPA' with wheels down and 'BPA' wheels up. These two are from English (RCM&E) drawings and are pretty simple builds.
Evan, WB #12.

Sorry, I guess you need pics too...
Evan.

Is that Your Atlas Even???
Gorgous!!



DM

Yes, I fly both in pattern competition, against the 2m stuff, in the beginner (Sportsman) class. But that's 'cause I'm not a particularly gifted pilot. They still don't like it when I get podium finishes...I just thought of another classic, what about a Sicroly 2? then you can have flap/airbrakes as well!
Evan.

Better get a piccy of that as well...
Evan.

I still have a new in box Bridi Dirty Birdy glass kit and wood kit if you are interested. Would let eitehr one go.

I have a new in box Bob Smith T-2A as well.

My vote:

1. Blue Angel
Short kit withfoam wings+stab,canopy and plan available from Dan Hines at Carolina Custom Aircraft.
No homepage, order via his e-mail.

2. Mach 1
Short kit available from <span class="emphasis">Don Turnock at Eureka Aircraft.</span>
http://www.eurekaaircraft.com

3. Curare
Short kit available from <span class="emphasis">Don Turnock at Eureka Aircraft.
http://www.eurekaaircraft.com

In the 1970th I built Mach 1 and Curare from plans and both fly very well. I had Rossi 60 with pipe in both planes.
I have now all 3 short kits above on orderbut I have not recieved them yet.

If You just want the plans you can get that also.

/Bo</span>

I have been staring at the Deception plans for about 30 minutes and this one looks pretty good... about my level of capabilities I mean. Looks like it builds upside down, flat on the table. Might be a better subject for success. I also like the upright engine and it can handle retracts. Foam wing available from Eureka, but Don doesn't list the stab (I sent him an email).

I was thinking Atlas until I read the construction article. It needs a jig, and I don't speak jig. hehe

Deception? What do you think? I could get the plans printed tomorrow. I've seen one fly and loved it.

Dave

For that matter the Tiporare looks doable as well

hahaha.... It can get a little overwhelming, cant it.
So many nice planes around again. The MK line really isn't a good first scratch build, heck I get confused with the kit! Anything Bridi is going to be Awesome too.


DM

Dave, built my Atlas without no jig. Does not need one.
Evan.

it helps if you have a good build thread to refer to. [8D]

UPDATE: Went to kinko's and had the Deception and Tiporare printed out. Got them both half price due to a wrinkle in a non critical area (but the clerk didn't need to know that, hehe).

So, now I will stare at these plans side by side and make my choice. Need to find a source for Deception stab cores. I know Don Turnock can do the Tipo stab and wings, but only lists the Deception wing... no stabs.

Looks like both are based on a flat topside making it easier to build for ham handers like me... but the Tipo's fin looks "fun".

I meant to say that making a choice on which plane to build can get overwhelming.
Sorry about the confussion, I was up pretty late moving when I made that reply.

DM

Dave you can do no wrong! Just wait when all my PM's start filling your inbox when I get stuck! hehe