Hi guy's

I was out flying my new Kwik Fli today, and I have a problem with the "knife edge" flying.
I'm not an experienced pattern pilot, but I'm learning.

So when I put it in KE I need to compensate with very much elevator, I fly with canopy agains me and it goes left.

Any tips or tricks.

Thanks.

You have a balance problem, if plane is nose or tail heavy it will tend to go right or left, read this triming document and you will find the solution for it, besides learning about pattern planes set up.
Hope it helps you.

Thanks Rafa, I printed it and will read it, maybe even try it out tomorrow.

Thanks

Send me your email I have another document, more extensive about how to trim the plane. Problem is forum does not support it to upload it here.

Pattern Aircraft Flight Trimming Chart

The following chart may be used to systematically set up and trim a model for straight flight and aerobatic maneuvers. Please note that for best results, trimming should be done in near-calm conditions. Before you decide to make a change, be sure to test the change several times before making adjustments. If any changes are made, go back through the previous steps and verify that they have not been affected. If they have, make further adjustments as necessary.

To test for Test Procedure Observations Adjustments
1.Control neutrals Fly the model straight and level Use the transmitter for hands off straight and level flight Change electronic sub-trims or adjust clevises to centre transmitter trims

2.Control throws Fly the model and apply full deflection of each control one at a time Check the response of each control
• Aileron high rate: 3 rolls in 4 secs; low-rate: 3 rolls in 6 secs
• Elevator high-rate: to give a smooth square corner; low-rate gives approx. 130 ft dia loop
• Rudder: high-rate 30-35o for stall turns; low-rate maintains knife edge


Change END POINT (for
high-rates), and Dual Rate settings (for low-rates) to achieve desired responses.
3. Decalage Power off vertical dive (crosswind if any). Release controls when model vertical (elevator trim must be neutral)

A. Model continues straight down
B. Model starts to pull out (nose up)?
C. Model starts to tuck in (nose down)?
A. No adjustment
B. Reduce incidence
C. Increase incidence
4. Centre of Gravity Method 1: Roll into near vertical-banked turn.

Method 2. Roll model inverted A1. Nose Drops
B1. Tail Drops
A2. Lots of forward stick (down elevator)
required to maintain level flight
B2. No forward stick (down elevator)
required to maintain level flight, or model
climbs

A. Add weight to tail
B. Add weight to nose
5. Tip weight (coarse adjustment) Fly model straight and level upright. Check aileron trim maintains level wings. Roll model inverted, wings level. Release aileron stick.

A. Model does not drop a wing
B. Left wing drops
C. Right wing drops
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to right tip
C. Add weight to left tip
6. Side thrust and warped wing Fly model away from you into any wind. Pull it into a vertical climb, watch for deviations as it slows down.
A. Model continues straight up
B. Model veers left
C. Model veers right
D. Model veers right
A. No adjustment
B. Add right thrust
C. Reduce right thrust
D. Put trim tab under left wing tip *
7. Up/down thrust Fly the model on normal path into any wind, parallel to strip at a distance of around 100m from you (elevator trim should be neutral as per Test 3). Pull it into a vertical climb and neutralise elevator.

A. Model continues straight up
B. Model pitches up (goes toward top of model)
C. Model pitches down (goes toward bottom of model)
A. No adjustment
B. Add down thrust
C. Reduce down thrust
8. Tip weight (fine adjustment) Method 1: fly the model as per
Test 6 and pull into a
reasonably small dia loop
(one loop only)
Method 2: fly the model as per
Test 6 and then push into
an outside loop (one only,
fairly tight)

A. Models comes out with wings level
B. Model comes out right wing low
C. Model comes out left wing low
A. No adjustment
B. Add weight to left tip
C. Add weight to right tip
Pattern Aircraft Flight Trimming Chart (continued)


To test for Test Procedure Observations Adjustments
9. Aileron differential Method 1: fly model toward you
and pull into a vertical climb
before it reaches you.
Neutralise controls, then
half-roll the model.


Method 2: fly the model on
normal pass and do three or
more rolls




Method 3: fly the model straight
and level and gently rock the
aileron stick back and forth
A. No heading changes
B. Heading change opposite to roll command (i.e. heading veers left after right roll)
C. Heading change in direction of roll command

A. Roll axis on model centreline
B. Roll axis off to same side of model as roll command (i.e. right roll, roll axis off right tip)
C. Roll axis off to opposite side of mdoel as roll command

A. Model flies straight ahead with yawing
B. Model yaws away from roll command (i.e. right roll, yaw left)
C. Model yaws towards roll command (i.e. right roll, yaw right)
A. Differential settings OK
B. Increase differential
C. Decrease differential



A. Differential settings OK
B. Increase differential
C. Decrease differential



A. Differential settings OK
B. Increase differential
C. Decrease differential
10. Dihedral Method 1: Fly the model on a
normal pass and roll into
knife-edge flight; maintain
flight with top rudder (do
this test in both left and right
knife-edge flight)

Method 2: Apply rudder in level
flight
A. Model has no tendency to roll
B. Model rolls in direction of applied rudder
C. Model rolls in opposite direction in both tests
A. Dihedral OK
B1. Reduce dihedral
B2. Use mixer to produce
aileron opposing
rudder travel (start
with 10%)
C1. Increase dihedral
C2. Mix ailerons with
rudder direction 10%
11. Elevator alignment (for models with independent elevator halves) Fly the model as in Test 6 and pull up into an outside loop. Roll it inverted and repeat the above by pushing up into an outside loop. A. No rolling tendency when elevator applied
B. Model rolls in same direction in both tests – halves misaligned
C. Model rolls opposite directions in both tests. One elevator half has more throw than the other (model rolls to side with most throw).
A. Elevators in correct alignment
B. Either raise one half or lower the other
C. Reduce throw on one side, or increase throw on other.
12. Pitching in knife-edge flight Fly the model as in Test 10 A. There is no pitch up or down
B. The nose pitches up (the model climbs laterally)
C. Nose pitches down (model dives laterally) A. No adjustment needed
B. Alternative cures:
1) move CG aft;
2) increase incidence;
3) droop ailerons;
4) mix down elevator with rudder
C. Reverse “B� above

* Trim tab is 3/16� x ¾� x 4� trailing edge stock, placed just in front of aileron bottom pointed end forward.

Martenson i've send the document to your e-mail.

alcarafa.

Just change the extension from whatever it is to .txt then upload it as a text file, Next mention in the thread to right click on the file and save it with the proper extension .doc .docx etc.

txs rogue will do it next time

Course, the other reason for this reaction to 'knife edge' flight is simply that when it was designed there was no KE in any pattern. The model is simply not designed to fly in this fashion. The apparent 'trim anomaly' you have is perfectly normal for a Kwik Fli. You can try to trim it out with all sorts of computer mixing, but in the end you just have to live with it. If you really want to fly 'KE' then any modern park fly or 3D type will be much better.
Evan, WB #12.

That plane was designed when multi channel radios were rare, so flying one back then was pioneering. If the plane falls off the wrong direction when the rudder is applied, the wing does not have enough dihedral built in because the rudder does not have enough force to yaw the plane with the flatter wing. If it pulls to the canopy or belly, the stab is too low or too high in relation to the wing. There is nothing wrong with your plane; I am building one, but a lot has been found out in the 40 years after it has been designed that make planes easer to fly. I think your plane looks great and I would be proud to own it. It is not as precise a pattern plane as we know today.