The solution to the problem is very simple.

HAVE 2 CLASSES, IC and Electric. They can even fly at the same time, just score separately. Another set of trophies does not cost that much and would be covered by the entry fees collected for the additional class.

I'll fly IC, but I can understand the anger the electric flyers feel about having their power system become illegal.

Ralph White, Neoga, IL

Here's just another proof that very little of a positive nature gets accomplished with discussion lists or email. People just react much more negatively on the internet. There's still nothing better then phone calls or face-to face discussions.

I believe this decision will adversely effect the growth of SPA in the long term. But then there really has not been much growth outside of the Southeast USA.

I am beginning to think there is an opening for an entirely new pattern class. Not necessarily just vintage models, but back to the old "one-maneuver-per-pass" style of flying. Keep the models low-key and the size of the .60 powered models we flew before all the growth with larger engines started. And if you fly vintage, keep the models true to the original outline!

I'm really glad I reread this post, Tom. I didn't get it the first time, for some reason.

You're right. People are trying to form the SPA into what they really want - a different F3A than what presently exists.


Ed Cregger

Tony,

it seems that some effort is going toward this idea - the Classic Pattern Association (CPA). See the following link:

http://www.classicpatternassociation.com/

Regards, David.

What I don't understand is why is everyone trying to start all these new organizations
with different rules etc? If everyone truly loves pattern the way it used to be why don't
we use the rules the way they were back then.....everyone, including the SPA ! I never
have understood the reasons for the SPA rules anyway. They say it's to save money
but I think everyone knows that's a lot of BS. The old rules are there, they worked back
then, why don't we use them ? Seems that's the only way for future growth.

tommy s

Tommy,
Go back and aquaint yourself with the bulk of the discussions regarding this very subject. Here's the deal in a nutshell: You are right on the money- The old rules worked well. But a bunch of folks thought that they had a better idea, and fast forward to today, you have what passes for pattern. The SPA came along to give people an alternative to "turnaround" style pattern, $4,000 airplanes, etc. But the SPA is very tightly defined by age of design and equipment limitations. And they have a very good program, the limited scope is the key to their program. Trying to redefine the SPA has been tried, rejected, and is a bad idea. And yes, I am an SPA member.
Now, more and more people want to go beyond 1976 airframes, run pipes, retracts, electic power, etc, and they need a new outlet. The Classic Patten Association is the means to that end.
The new associations are being formed because they are badly needed. I urge you to embrace the concept.

-Robert

the all inclusive classic pattern association makes a lot of sense.

Well, maybe there will be somewhere I can compete with my Electric King Altair after all. Is this going to be a SIG???, or a group that would be able to put on contests? If so I wonder how many would be interested??? I would be. Sounds good to me.

Keep building... Huntsville is one for sure. If you get it done in Feb you might be able to talk Ron into letting you fly it there. There's the Chicago contest and I'm sure a few more here and there just around the SE.

Thanks for the info Jason. Huntsville is only about 5 hours from where I live. I may try it out.

Click on below. Movement to get back to pattern of old.




http://www.classicpatternassociation.com/

http://www.classic-patternrc.com

The Huntsville contest definitely thrives on inclusiveness and so will the new"classic pattern assoc" getting hung up on ironclad specifics "Exclusivity" is not the way to go. I thought pattern was and still is about doing the best flying you can given a specific set of maneuvers. Isn't your biggest competitor yourself.

When I fly in a contest I don't even look at the scores because I was flying and I know how bad or good it was I don't need a score sheet to see how I did ( Most of the time it needs improvement).

Getting hung up on what equipment the other guy is flying is just a stop gap for your own laziness of not getting out and practicing and becoming a better pilot ( for those of us that are not born with a transmitter in our hand).

Its all about the loops, roles, and lines we are drawing nothing else.


gary

There will be some more news shortly... Let us get thru the holidays and build those classic planes !!!

The CPA Classic Pattern Association is on the way !!!


scott

No one is mentioning "the real problem". What passes for AMA and FAI pattern today is way too expensive for many of us to fly. Instead of models growing smaller as time progressed and electronics shrunk in size, the models went the other way. Folks wanted to go pro, you know. There simply aren't enough folks serious enough to spend the kind of money that is required to fly like a pro. It is time to put this charade to end and to reconfigure pattern into something that will generate interest and competition.


Ed Cregger

That is EXACTLY what is going on here. There is no problem. It is resurrecting the old to the present. For a lot of guy's, it never left their mind's, and now is the chance to do something about it, go around, one more time before meeting the pearly gate's, having a lot of fun doing it.

http://www.classicpatternassociation.com/

http://www.classic-patternrc.com

Crank, you gotta stop with those photos.... The F/O thinks I'm salivating over the dinner she just made..!
)
hook

Hey Hook. I have the other P-6 on the board, going to try a different paint job. This P-6 goes to maiden right after New Years. Dual aileron servos, all modern gear. Took the Focus out to maiden yesterday, did not get airborne, should get in air next Tuesday, had some YS issue's. Cold down here today, only made it to 78. Check out the jewel in my hand.
Crank

http://www.classicpatternassociation.com/

http://www.classic-patternrc.com

Vince,
Do you know if anyone ever got any models from the John guy from Oregon? My messages and calls went unanswered. I wanted the OS Curare.
Chris...

Chris, I got the green, orange, white and black Dirty Birdi. It is complete except for receiver. Still has original Kraft KPS15 servos in it. Pro-Line retracts, PDP'd ST 60 Bluehead w Perry Pump/Carb, OPS pipe, Kraft wheels. SWEET!!!!

Woodie

Chris - Sending you a PM.

Vince

Tommy S, have you actually attended a for real SPA event? I've been to a few and I fail to see why you say that the SPA models are so different than the originals that they resmble them in name only. The events that I've attended have made me feel quite 70'ish. Tiger Tails, Daddy rabbits, Kaos, Dirty Birdi, Phantoms, Deceptions, Intruders, etc. Yes, some of the models have slight modifications, but please don't pretend that folks didn't modify models during the 70's and 80's as well. Going from tricycle gear to tail dragger has always been common and in no way represents a departure from the way things were. Is the WM Intruder 91 a faithful reproduction of the original Intruder? No, but when you put them side by side you absolutely have no doubt what the new intruder was based on. If your opinon about the SPA models is based on planes that you've seen that fly in the novice class then you need to understand that Novice does not impose the same standard as the other classes. Novice class is intended to allow folks that are unsure about whether they want to fly pattern at all to fly what they have (although there is an engine size limitaion as well as a physical model size limitaion). So please don't base your opinions on picture you may have seen that were of aircraft flown in the SPA novice class.

Having flown in SPA, I have no problem with the no pipes or retracts. 91FS engines do seem a bit odd (many will agree on this) but that's what they decided on. I don't think any organization has ever imposed a rule of any sort that didn't have somebody that disagreed with it. Nobody forces anyone to fly the 91FS and trust me there are competetive planes and pilots flying the .61 two stroke.

If you actually belong to and participate in SPA events, then I would tend to give you more credit for your gripes and concerns. If like so many others you are simply a troll reading over forums and feeling the need to bless the world with your own personal opinions without having any real life participation to base them on, then I think maybe you have some other issues that might be a little more disturbing than the rules of the SPA. Maybe rather than bashing SPA, you should redirect your enthusiasm by supporting and actually participating in the Ballistic Pattern Association. I'm certain that they'd love to have another member and maybe you could be happy as a lark then. If you find that their organization doesn't live up to your self approved standards then now is a great time to get up from the keyboard and form your own organization and show us what a really good, well run organization is all about eh?

The original poster of this thread has been involved in SPA and I understand his concern regarding the recent electric ruling. There are others who have responded here that participate in the SPA and their voices and posts do matter because they did have a dog in the hunt. Did the SPA make a good decison? I don't know. I think their decision makes more sense than the one they started with. I know many of the SPA leadership well enough to know that they when they make a decision, they still continue to evaluate the issue to see if their decision was good for the organiztion or not. Time will tell and I'm certain that if evidence indicates their decision was a poor one that they will attempt to correct and overcome at some point in the future. For now, I can only hope that those few folks who actually participated in the SPA with electric models will continue to participate with a nitro bird of some sort in 2010. I had the opportunity to meet several of them in Chattanooga and Atlanta and really enjoyed their presence both on and off the flight line.

Cheers all, and Merry Christmas!

Cripes Crank, you gotta pot-o-gold on your pourch or somewhere? I haven't been able to snatch one of those yet. Gonna hate to stick an ASP in that plane

cmgtech1 ,

I actually have a second place trophy from a SPA event from 1995 and several from the
60's and 70's when we flew the real thing so I know what the real airplanes looked like.
I don't have a problem with modifying the airplanes, heck I wish the rules from the old
days were used so we could fly any airplane. It's your rules that say they want to stay
true to the old designs, then let them alter them so much they only resemble the original
airplanes, mostly in name only, then run big 4-strokes which weren't used back then that I have
a problem with. If you like the SPA rules as they are, fine, just don't claim you're staying
true to the old days of pattern because you're not. I've seen and flown with original
Daddy Rabbits and what you allow today aren't Daddy Rabbits. Same with a bunch of other designs.
If you think it's OK to have all these differences why not electric, what is the difference really ?

tommy s

Tommy S. Get into these site's below.



http://www.classicpatternassociation.com/

http://www.classic-patternrc.com

Tommy competed in The Fort Worth Thunderbird's 2007 contest, and happens to be a very competent pilot. I believe it was about a six hour drive and a hotel stay too, so there is a commitment to see this grow as well. Cmgtech1, maybe a pm would have been more appropriate.