Ryan Smith

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Hello all,

I recently acquired an older pattern plane from a friend of mine. It has a 61 or so inch wingspan, fiberglass fuse, and I'm pretty sure epoxy was used for the layup. It has a belly pan that goes from the nose ring to the TE of the wing. The fuse has some a pretty distinct shape to it, the bottom of the fuse is grooved on either side from the belly pan to the fin post from air exits. It's a neat looking airplane. It has a Super Tigre .61 RE motor and what appears to be maybe a Macs pipe. The airplane is built straight, but needs some serious work before I fly it. I figure it'd be a fun change from 2 meter stuff, and the price was right.

If anybody has a clue what this is, and some history about the airplane, it'd be much appreciated! I apologize for the quality of the picture, it was taken on my phone. If more pictures are required, please let me know and I'll do my best to accomodate.

rabbid fly

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Could you take a side picture? I would say maybe a Summit or LA-1 . They are so much alike. Phil

Atlanta 60

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Yeah..A better picture would defiantly help...

I was going to say LA-1 but the "doo-dad" at the front of the canopy and the flat section also at the front of the canopy don't match my version of the LA-1...I'm pretty sure it not a Summit III either...The photo below shows the Summit III fuse in the foreground and an LA-1 fuse behind it...I can take some better photos if necessary...Those are both Aztec Air kits...

My LA-1 also doesn't have any cutouts or grooves on the bottom of the fuse as Ryan mentions...The stated wingspan for the LA-1 is 66"...

There is also the LA-2 which looks similar to the LA-1...It has plug-in wings rather than a one piece wing...It also has no dorsal fin in front of the rudder like the LA-1...and...I forget the rest...

A neat looking aircraft though!!

A modified LA-1 perhaps??

Ryan Smith

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I don't believe it to be an LA-1 or a Summit either. I hope this is a good enough side picture. My house is tiny and that's about all the room I had to get a picture of the side of the airplane!

Atlanta 60

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There was a sister ship to the Atlanta and I'm thinking might be what you have...The name escapes me at the moment...It's kinda hard to see the exact canopy lines with your plane because of the way it's painted...I'm thinkin' Omen but I'm not sure that's the right name...I'll see if I can find a photo...I'm pretty sure it still doesn't have "doo-dad" in front of the canopy though...

Ryan Smith

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I thought the Omen was a George Asteris design that was designed around 4-strokes. Was there another one? The canopy has a flat spot on the front, reminiscent of a fighter, and the red stripe on the top of the fuse is actually a ridge.

Ryan Smith

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Also, the wing appears to have a rather thick airfoil section if that helps anything. The TE is straight, sort of like an EU1A wing planform.

Atlanta 60

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Yeah..Omen isn't the right name of what I'm thinking...I noticed the flat spot and I know I've seen that before I just can't remember where....The "doo-dad" in front of the flat spot I don't remember seeing...

It's a one piece wing right??

Ryan Smith

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Yes sir.

JAS

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T2A Mk something (4, 5 or 7 maybe lol)... Bill Rutledge was flying one of those and beat me. I thought it was a perfect looking plane as far as moments and size ratios of everything. But that's just my eye. The top 'scoop' and flat canopy front sets it off. Oh yea... it flies amazing (well for the patterns back in the day). It would make a great AMA plane.

gltruett

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Jason has it, T2A Mk IV. Still available from Dan (Deadstik) at Carolina Custom Aircraft.

Atlanta 60

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Yeah I was thinking of the Omega but after finding some pictures that for sure wasn't it...

Soooo...T2A MK IV...Kewl...Good Stuff!! I remember seeing some photos in Dan's brochure and I really liked the looks of that one... [8D]

Awesome..Rare bird indeed!!

NM2K

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The Omen is a George Asteris design and it began its rather long evolutionary of life while being powered by inverted two-strokes and ending its life using OS .61RF engines with enclosed tuned pipes. This was just before the transition to YS 1.20 four-stroke engines.

His two-stroke Omen's pipe enclosure ended near the trailing edge of the wing and then radically went vertical into a much thinner rear fuselage. It always reminded me of the WW II TBF Avenger torpedo bomber in that regard. Nice airplane.

George gave me one of the last of his two-stroke Omens. Very, very nice model and terrific engineering.


Ed Cregger

Ryan Smith

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Thanks Uncle Jason!

I appreciate all of your detective work as well, Atlanta 60. It's good to know what I've got, I really like the looks of the airplane. Would this perhaps be BPA legal, or is it too new of a design? When was this kitted?

Ryan Smith

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Well I guess I should make this thing a nosedragger then? That would fix the problem of the thing apparently being tail heavy. It's got several ounces of weight glued to the nose, upon taking the motor out. Do the 60's need to be soft mounted, or can I hard mount it?

doxilia

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Ryan,

that depends on how much vibration you like!

I'd use a glass filled mount (e.g., DBr or GP) rather than an alum one. You can then back the mount with a thin piece of rubber (~1/16") all around it. The DBr mounts are circular so you just cut a ring.

Also, MK used to make some nice soft mounts for the YS's. Both the 45's and 61's fit in them. Basically there is a rubber dampener that mounts to hardwood beams for the engine and then, in turn, that is mounted between two steel plates that have screws passing through the assembly (see pics).

In a pinch, you can simply mount it directly with 4 x 6-32 bolts to the FW using the above glass mounts.

David.

P.S. Nice T2A! (small photo attached from Dan's brochure)

gltruett

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Ryan,

The Mk IV is an 80s design, among the last of the pre turnaround designs for inverted piped 61s like the YS. Tom Atkins kitted them from the time he designed it until the 90s. I took over in 99 and made them until 2003 when Dan at Carolina Custom took over. It is a fairly large plane so it takes a strong 61 to really get the most out of it. The engine compartment is pretty tight for a 4 stroke but some people who got Mk IVs from me were able to get 4 stroke 120s in them. I would like to try a Jett 90 or 100 in a Mk IV or one of the new YS 115s if it would fit. I have always preferred a solid mounted 2 stroke but Tom is a big advocate of softmounting and likes the Sullivan mount. Comes down to your choice and there are arguments for both methods. I'm pretty sure Tom intended it to be a taildragger but I haven't looked at the plans in a long time, Dan may be able to help. It was very easy to make these long tailed designs tail heavy if you weren't very careful mounting and finishing the stab. I'm not sure switching to tricycle gear would help. I did see some built as fixed gear taildraggers with wheelpants that looked nice but again, it's a personal preference.

As I said in an earlier post, it is still being produced so parts and plans are available as far as I know.

George Truett

JollyPopper

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Man, those are handsome airplanes.

Atlanta 60

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LOL!!! I like that...

BPA legal for sure!! Sounds like it will be an excellent aircraft!!

I like that Sullivan soft mount and that"s what I'm using or the MK beam mount when applicable...Soft mounting is my personal preference along with an articulated header...I would not say it's absolutely necessary to soft mount and consider it personal preference...

I'd be very interested to see how this puppy progresses during your restoration!! Would you please keep us updated with lots of kewl photos!!

Thanks...

Chuck

Ryan Smith

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I'll do it. I should have taken some before photos, but it was in less than stellar shape. It didn't take much force to pop the firewall out by hand, as well as the former that the wing pins plug in to. As of right now, the fuse is entirely gutted, and I think I may build a new set of wings so I can make it a nosewheel airplane.

On that note, the retracts in the wings seem to be very nice. I'll get a picture of them to see if they are identifiable, and if a nosewheel counterpart is available. The motor needs to be gone through, and I suspect needs new bearings. As stated previously, the firewall and former behind it came out with very little force, which concerns me a little, as it looked as they were glued in with epoxy. All indications lead me to believe that this is an epoxy and glass fuse, so I hope that the old glue just wasn't mixed right.

I have to say, I'm really excited about this airplane, as it's a big shift from what I'm used to. Classic pattern planes are sort of hit and miss with me, but this thing is drop dead sexy. I can't wait to get it done and tear the skies up with it! Thanks for all your help guys, especially Chuck.

Ryan Smith

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George,

I completely missed your post last night. Thank you so much for your detailed information. I just figured I'd make it into a nosewheel airplane since the only pictures that I've seen of it are Bradford Lang's and his had a nosewheel. I've always loved taildraggers, and this airplane does look good in that configuration.

It has some sort of soft mount in it, I'm not sure if it's homebrew or was a commercially available product. It has glass filled beams with four rubber isolators on the back side of them. I've never seen beams that look like these. Back when I was flying OS 1.40 RX's, the vibration in those was not bad at all, and I have a hard time believing that a .61 would need to be soft mounted. As tight as the nose is, it looks to be a bit of a pain in the you know what to try and get a nose ring in there. I want to take a good look at the stab and see how it's glued in and see if some weight can be saved there. The wings are heavy as lead, and regardless of its landing gear configuration, I will be replacing those.

As of right now, the fuse is gutted, minus the stab and fin post. It didn't take too much work to get it to this point, so all of the gobs of glue that were in the airplane didn't do much good for the strength and longitevity of the parts installed.

All in all, I'm looking forward to working on it. I think it's a good looking airplane, and the fuselage is very distinctive looking.

Stuart Chale

Just an addition to the Omen info. George did build several 4C 120 design Omens. (I still have one). He custom built them, cutting his own cores etc. Belly pans started out as solid blocks or built up blocks and then were carved to a light shell. Mine is hanging between the 60 sized Desire and the Atlanta on the back wall of my plane storage area.
Stuart C.

grcourtney

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Ryan

now you can come play in Huntsville in Aug. 2010.

gary

Ryan Smith

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That sounds like fun, Gary. I'd love to!

Deadstik

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Ryan,

Just sent you a PM on the parts. I've uploaded a tricycle MK IV so you can get an idea of who it looks. INHO its the most attractive of all of the Tom Atkins designs and a very smooth flying plane. This is not a small airplane and is a good 25% bigger than a normal .60 sized pattern ship. I'll see if I can't put a couple of fuselages side by side so you can see the difference. I'm going to put a Jett 1.2 re in mine for this next year.

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft