I've been returning to the hobby over the last year and a half after a 14 year hiatus. After progressing back through a trainer, a super sportster, ultra stick, and somethin' extra, I want to break out the old DB and the like (before the "twitchy thumb" habit from these newer planes gets ingrained). I have several of these older models, but apparently "back in the day" I tended to build heavy, and as best as I remember, those planes tended to be a bit quicker than I am currently used to (older eyes and reflexes). However, I truly miss those old designs that flew like they were on rails, and plan on breaking them out of storage in the near future. Can anyone recommend a plane that handles like the old DB, but is perhaps more sedate, or should I just get one of the new kits and strive to build it light? Basically looking for a slower transition plane back into the old classic pattern birds. I'm NOT interested in 3-D, and not especially interested in ARF's.

TIA

Bob

I believe the Ultra Sport kits are still available from Tower if you wanna build a kit:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ583&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ584&P=7

-OR-

The Tower Kaos 40 comes to mind as an ARF:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXZT80&P=ML


I would think your in pretty good shape given the list of planes you have progressed through thusfar and the Dirty Birdy should actually fly better...The ole Ultra Sport would however get you closer in the speed spectrum and offer the "flying on rails" attributes of your Dirty Birdy...

Oh BTW:
The Dirty Birdy should also be available from Blue Jay Models too (forgot about that)...I can't get their website to work at the moment but they still sell allot of the Bridi kits to include the Dirty Birdy...Hopefully they are just working on the website??

Welcome back!!

Chuck

I'm for buying a currently made Dirty Birdy (Bluejay Models) and building it light. Resist the urge to paint the danged thing and cover it with plastic. Forget the retracts and the tuned pipe for now. Besides, some of these new performance mufflers make it so it isn't worth the time and effort to set up a real tuned pipe from the days of yore. It's always an option later on.

I'm thinking about fitting my Dirty Birdy with an OS .55AX. No, I don't think it will be quite as fast as the full size .61 engines with full tuned pipes, but I doubt that we would miss that little bit of power anyway.


Ed Cregger

The Dirty Birdy is a very easy airplane to fly. With the planes you list, you're absolutely ready for one.

As Ed suggests, forget about paint, retracts, pipes and the like. Build one, cover it with film, put a modern .60 class sport engine in it and you'll have a great flying airplane.

Dave

Great honest advice!

Easy, I'd agree sorta' point-and-shoot (what makes them so great). I guess it may be a confidence thing. BUT what I remember best about the DB I have (and it's been around 14-15 years since I've flown it) was that it had 3 speeds. Slow high alpha at landing, a somewhat miserable mid-range speed where it felt like it was underpowered, and then, when the pipe got spooled up a holy ***t speed. Back then, I tended to build heavy, and the 3 old-style pattern birds I still have were all on the heavy side. The DB is an old wood Bridi kit, the fuse has been glassed and painted, and the (built-up) wing was sheeted with 64th Obeechi. In the early-mid 80's I had a phenomenally cheap source for Obeechi, and most of my wings got sheeted with that yeah, now I realize that wasn't the smartest thing to do. My biggest fear at this point relates to my vision. I'm worried about the speed and older reflexes letting it get far enough out that I loose orientation with AARP level vision. You'll note that with the possible exception of the sportster, the planes I've used "coming back" have been slower models that are easy to keep in close. I still seem to remember the DB trying to go cross country on me, rolling all the way <g>.
I have an old ultrasport 40 from the first time the US's were kitted still in the box. Based on the advice given so far, I think that may be the best idea, built light with no frills. It'll give me a reason to get the GP Giles presently on the building board either finished or temporarily back in the box for awhile.
Opinions on putting flaps on the US? Are they worthwhile? What, 25 - 30% of the aileron span converted to flap? How much, if any, would the initial recommended aileron throws need to be changed for the loss in aileron span?

Oh yeah, I know about BlueJay, and want a couple of several of their kits!

Thanks for the advice and support.

Bob

I have an "old faithful" Ultra Sport 40 which I built 25+ years ago...I covered her in the charcoal gray with silver stripes scheme as shown on the box (hard to see)...It has retracts and a SuperTigre G51 with no tuned pipe...She still has the original duct tape I put on after the second canopy cracked (they use to make good duct tape back then)....There is a ding in the right hand wing from getting too low on final (at dusk) and running through some small pine trees on approach to land...I forget how may sets of tires I've put on her but these are bald too...This was the first plane I flew on my return to R/C a few years ago (it was the only thing I had running)...In hind sight I probably should have started with a trainer but we survived...

I also have a Dirty Birdy 60 which I purchased last year from a fellow in Las Vegas...It's a beautiful airplane and is slated to be my SPA plane for this year...My scale is broken so I haven't weighed it but I think this one is pretty heavy too...I know it has allot of lead on the tail and still needs more because it's very nose heavy...It has a glassed and painted fuse with covered wings...It also has fixed gear and an OS 61 FSR for power...She originally had a tuned pipe on her but I've removed the pipe and put on a stock muffler for SPA purposes...I have some trimming work to do plus I wanna tear into it and see if I can work on the C.G. issue without adding more tail weight...

The reason I bring these planes up is I don't really see the Dirty Birdy being that much faster than the Ultra Sport...To me they "feel" very similar...I don't have a ton of flights on the Dirty Birdy yet and I'm still sorta getting use to it but I've never felt uncomfortable or like it was too much to handle...Of course I was very nervous on the first flight and it took forever for my thumbs to quit shaking...But I get that way with any new plane...lol...The Dirty Birdy may be fast?? It doesn't feel overwhelming by any means...

I know the Ultra Sport would be a great primer aircraft for the DB...I do however wonder if your ready now since you are comfortable with the Sporster...I appreciate the "confidence in yourself" aspect of things...To this day I still get nervous flying a new model or if I haven't flown in a while...I expect my first contest to be pretty much the same way...So don't worry...I think it happens to everyone...

So I was thinking of this:

Do you have anyone at your club that you would trust to fly your Dirty Birdy?? A seasoned pattern pilot ect..?? How about getting them on a buddy box with you for the first couple of flights?? Some guys may view the buddy box as a big strike to their ego but I don't see it that way...It's a good tool and may be perfect for this sort of situation...I was an instructor at one of my old clubs and thank goodness for the buddy box...

Well...Just some food for thought...

Edit: Sorry but I'm a picture kinda guy... Here's a pic of my US-40 and Dirty Birdy...I also just maidened my new trainer on New Years day...I wanted something in the stable to help knock off the first flight jitters after some time off...Plus you gotta admit it's just plain fun to do touch-n-go's on a nice calm day with a good flyin' trainer.... [8D]

Good Luck...

Chuck

Hey Atlanta, if you're looking for a new scale, check out the link below.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9338094/tm.htm

FB

Thanks for the link FB but that scale only goes up to 10lbs.... (lol...JK...But my plane does feel pretty heavy)

i've seen Chuck fly that dirty birdy, it flies very similar to my ultra sport 60 (also a little heavy).

Atlanta60, here is a link that you could buy a "new" canopy and reduce the drag of that duct tape http://www.greatplanes.com/parts/gpma0390pl.html

That would be ideal. You don't know how much I'd enjoy being on the box with another pilot, and the old ego wouldn't have any problems at all. Only problem is that the nearest active club is about 95 miles away (as is the nearest LHS). The only RC pilot I'm aware of within 40 miles only flies small foamies, and we do get together from time to time, but he doesn't have any experience with anything other than 24-30 inch foamies, and won't go near a larger bird (or a slimer). I have tried to affiliate with the club 95 miles from here, to the point of going to their meetings, meeting some of the guys, and attempting to go out to their field. There are some good guys at that club, but they are mostly inactive and seem to do most of their "flying" at the LHS, while the club and field seem to be controlled by a younger set that don't appear to want new members unless they are a part of their clique (certainly NOT what the AMA advertises). Not even interested in a dues-paying member unless said member is a part of their "group", as well as being available to show up at any club work days, which is impractical for me. They quickly make any "outsiders" at their field feel unwelcome, even spectators.

Fact is, during the time I've flown RC, I've never lived near a club, and had to do my learning the hard (bad) way, which probably accounts for some of my lack of confidence. The first time around, I experienced a fairly steep learning curve, especially when I transitioned to the classic pattern birds (read lots of dumb thumb moves, and lots of models re-kitted). I seem to have an unreasonable attachment to the old classic pattern models that I still have, while I have no qualms about re-kitting a new build, so the old US kit may be a good idea for me.

OTOH, maybe I can try to find the proper inducement to get one of the old hands from the long-distance club to come down to my "flying field". Although I have a grass alternative, I normally fly off a mostly abandoned local airport, which is fine with the couple of local full scale pilots and the local community, so long as I have a spotter for the FS planes so I can clear the airspace should a FS plane appear. Can't beat a 3500' runway, although I mostly fly off the parking apron since it's almost never used.

Nahh, it's the rubber knees that get me!<g>

Bob

Man that's got to be a real pain about the club situation you have there. I know where you live in the state and only go through your town on way to Colorado for summer vacations. I would imagine that you have a problem with wind in your area. Altus OK looks fairly close to you. Is the military base still there? I would think that there should be some RCers there. I lived in Wichita Falls, for 20 years and we had a fairly active club, but that's a long way from you. If your ever in the Georgetown, TX area look up our club (GAMA) web site and find our field. We would be very happy to have you come by. I hate clubs like the one you talked about who think their sh*t is to good and resistant to new members. You know that one club (country clubers I call them) usually go away as people move and members pass on. We have some members like that here in our area, but I'm on a personnel campaign to turn that type of thinking around.

If you've lived in Wichita Falls, you know what I'm talking about in terms of distance between things out here. Yes, wind is a problem, but you get used to flying in it to a degree. I'm used to flying in "wind" that cause lots of club fields to close down. One of the reasons I'm interested in getting back into the classic pattern ships IIRC, they seemed to handle wind lots better than many others.

Yes, the base at Altus is still active, but less so than in the 70's. Altus is about 75 miles away, and I've tried to connect via their LHS with little luck. Most of the enlisted that are active in RC seem to be into cars (nitro and lekkys), and the LHS even has a formal track for them. However, other than the consignment planes hanging from the LHS ceiling, the shop owner couldn't help me much regarding the air guys (no plane kits in the shop). LHS guy explained to me that the economic downturn has really hit the area hard and most locals that were involved with RC planes are older and have mostly gone inactive. The younger crowd with disposable income (mostly enlisted from the base) are mostly into cars/trucks, plus the RC guys tend to be very transient. In addition to the economy, having the air base practically in downtown Altus apparently makes finding flying sites difficult. From what the LHS guy told me, unlike some bases that provide flying space, Altus restricts RC from anywhere near their flight space something about Altus still being a part of StratCom, I think. We're located near one of the nap-of-earth training sortie routes that Altus uses, and it's quite a thrill if you happen to be out fllying RC and a flight of BUFFs comes cruising over about co-altitude with your RC model.

The WF club is reportedly still fairly active, but that's about 150 miles from me.

"Country clubbers" describes the situation pretty well, unfortunately.

Bob

Sedate Dirty Birdy...

May I suggest a $220 solution- The World Models Intruder with an O.S. 61 XF and an APC 12" x 9" prop. An incredible value!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

I have an OS Wankel .30 and I'd like to use it to power a Tower Kaos .46. Will that engine provide enough power to the plane? What type of scews and other hardware do you recommend for mouning the engine mount to fire wall? My muffler does not have a nipple for pressure, do I need to pressurize the fuel tank like with a regular 2 stroke engine? If so what do I do and if not what do i do about vent line to fuel tank? ALso what Prop is best for this engine? Mabe a 10x6?

after reading this thread it makes me gratefull for the area that I live as far as rc goes there are 4 flying fields within 20 minutes of my house 2 are 5 minutes from were I work all with a great bunch of guys. My learming curve was also step never had been on a buddy box first plane was a tower hobbies trainer I got at a pawn shop I flew this for about 3 months then got a hanger 9 p51 mustang that first flight of the mustang lasted about 6 minutes and then it went home in a trash bag but now they seem to last longer. I say the dirty birdie flys beter than anything you can try to practice with of corse this is just an opinion but if you flew it in the past once it leaves the ground it will be just like old times again. most of the planes I fly now are as old or older than me they just fly and are built better anyway ill stop rambling. If you ever in the gadsden alabama area look up any of the flying sites they will me more than happy to fly and share stories.