Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Let's start a new thread on available engines for CPA. And keep the pattern kits a different issue. All these engines are getting interesting.



Frank

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Please delete this post with my apologies.

Brian

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

countilaw

Let's start a new thread on available engines for CPA. And keep the pattern kits a different issue. All these engines are getting interesting.

What are some of the interesting engines ??Crank

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Let's start with engines that we are using now, and what we think about them. Their good points and their bad points. What kind of engine would we like to have. A where we have been able to find them.

Personally there were two engines I preferred, The K & B 61 and the Picco 60. The K & B 61 was a great engine for sport flying. It was inexpensive and parts were plentiful. They still are today. It came with a Perry Carb and was the best of the day. Even though it's not a power house, it would pull a Kaos with plenty of zip.

The Picco was a powerful engine and pulled the heavier pattern planes with some gusto. The inflight fuel mixture control was a big help for tweeking a mixture right before take off. It came in both configurations as rear exhaust and side exhaust.
Others were using the Rossi, Webra and Super Tigre. All great engines.

The worst engine was the Fox Eagle 60. With the bolt on carb you were limited to just the Fox carb that came on the engine. They were big and heavy. That's my opinion. There were some guys that swore by them. Oh, and they were cheap.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I have a Veco .61 that came on a Das Ugly Stick in the early 70's I learned to fly RC with. Don't have the Ugly Stick anymore, but still have the Veco. I had it rebuilt and modified some years ago by a machinest who worked at K&B. He replaced the Perry with a K&B carb. Runs very good and strong and is now on a 30+ year old Sig Kwik-Built Super Chipmunk that I still fly once in a while.

Also, about the same vintage, I have a Super Tigre .60 laying around somewhere. It was piped and used on a Dirty Birdy 60 in regional AMA contests by my instructor before he gave it to me (worn out) and replaced it with a Rossi or OPS.

SpadCat<br type="_moz" />

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

For the slower lightweight classics like a Kwik Fli, etc. the Enya 60, Veco/K&B 61 and Webra Blackhead. If you want a slower classic go fast and you have retracts the RJL 61 (the old Kraft engine) and the Irvine 61 (Irvine loves a pipe). For classics that preform best at high speed like the Tiporare, Blue Angel and Speeda my choice is the piped OS 61SF-P ABC powerhouse. The Veco/K&B 61 (Twister version) and RJL 61 are available new from http://www.mecoa.com/. All the others are in good supply NIB from that site where you bid on stuff or the RCU Market Place. Used engines that have been run even slightly and then sit for years may need new bearings so keep that in mind. I’ve bought a few used but they did require a bit of work even though they were very clean looking.

Lots of engines available that are period correct and that is one of the cool things about the classics.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

The Veco 61, a real work horse and a very dependable engine. It was always a good engine for sport flying. It was never a power engine unless you knew how to work it. Ididn't know they were still available. That's one of the goals of this thread. I remember the RJL, but never had one.

My first engine. McCoy 35 red head bought new for my Sterling Ringmaster.

Frank

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

After having flown various models of the K&B .61/Veco .61, and enjoyed them too, I might add, various OS & Enya 10cc pattern engines and myriad others, my favorite is my Super Tigre G-60 ABC/Ring engine from the late 70's/early 80's. It howls and it just keeps on a howlin'. What a sweet piece of Italian machine work. Sure wish I could find another one NIB.


Ed Cregger

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Along with the K&B and Veco, my favorite is the HB .61 PDP...

Then SuperTigre X and Rossi for the more ballistic ships.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

An available engine is the Evolution .61NX. It is very light for the power it makes. Don't run anything more then 15% nitro unless you add a head shim or two. Even 15% could use an extra head shim. Mine on the recommended header, pipe and an 11x7 APC turns 13,800 to 14,000. I don't believe anything that is as light will turn as high.

As to old engines not available anymore, my favorite was the O.S. .61F-SR ABC with the exhaust port raised. Great power for the time. But I have to agree, the Tigre G.60 ABC was a great motor. Glad a have a new one!

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

That is one sweet looking engine. And MSRP for only $159.00 but sales for about $119.00.

Frank

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Back on the K&B 61 for a sec....
I have 6 of them....not the Twister model...5 of them were run out and locked up....I bought them over several years averaging $3 each and sent them to Clarence Lee for rebuild and for the PDP mod.
I got a couple of Perry carbs and tossed the K&B carbs.
Right now I have one on a radio test airplane and trainer for friends.
I bought a VECO 61 back in 65' (engine in the pix) when they first came out and I wore it out so many times that I took it to K&B and had a 'max' repair...which was a new engine for $45.
I bought another VECO in 67' and it is still NIB.
A couple of them have the Perry backplate pump with the Perry pump carb and PDP mod. They are pretty strong considering everything.
They run great on 15% nitro and 18% straight castor.
They dont like straight synthetic oil.
Anyway..the rebuild cost averages about $40....git it while you can....I have still another one a guy gave me I need to send in.

I still have the wing from this Kaos and the plans too....it is the original Bridi version I built in 69'....gotta build another fuse and stab.

But....while these engines are plentiful...they probably are a bit too old for our intended use on CPA airplanes.
I'm still for the Rossi/AXI and NovaRossi.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

There you go. I have a few of those in my collection and I don't know how I could have forgotten them. They (HB) are sweet running engines.


Ed Cregger

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I keep seeing the K&amp;B/Veco 61's beingmentioned. Clarence Lee still puts together his version of the ckassic K&amp;B .61 with PDP porting. I obtained seveeral of them last year and picked up several used versions by auction. One was an old Veco with his stamp on it that was of the earliest design with the smaller bypass. The best one, which was a more recent Veco with Perry pump carb, turns an APC 11x7 at 13,300 with one of his modified mufflers. His new engines are hand fitted from Mecoa parts and include the new twister style muffler that has an internal baffle. Quiet, butrestrictive. I found the baffle to reduce the rpm on one of the engines by about 500 rpm. The increase in noise when removing the baffle is noticeable, but not too loud.

On the ore ballistic planes, I favor the Rossi. Ialso had luck with the OS VF, but was not as powerful as the Rossi. Interesting thread.

Danny

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Great thing about some of these (Rossi's, YS's, OS FSR) was the fact that you could run them either fast and in-your-face loud or slow and ez on the ears. Just change the pipe length and prop accordingly.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

A good friend of mine bought a Phoenix 8 at our LHS and is letting me get it ready for spring flying. It came with a pumped Enya 60X with a Hatori pipe (I think) setup. Since it was seized up, the LHS owner said to throw that thing away and put an OS, YS or Webra on it. I rebuilt it giving it the crockpot/antifreeze treatment and it came out like new. On the first bench run I achieved 14,200rpm with an 11x7 APC prop and 5% sig fuel. The header appears uncut so I hope to get near 15k rpm when it's tuned. I never thought much of Enya's but after seeing this one run I'm more of a fan.

Other good engines would be the OS FSR series, Webra Speed 60, YS 60 IMO.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I have a NIB G.60R, but I ain't letting go of it :D. I'm waiting for the muse to strike and I'll build a plane just for that engine.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I have always thought the Enya X-series were fantastic engines.

turbo

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

This is a good thread subject.

Iam new to classic pattern so my opinions are not formed by as much experience. That being said I love my OS 61 VF, and Ihad that engine on a Calypso and it went like stink! Unfortunately, the plane was lost, but the engine remains and will find a new home in my T2A MKII. Ialso have a Hanno Special that Irun in my Conquest VI, and that is the best flying airplane Ihave and that includes my 2M ship. I have an NIBOS 61 SF-P ABC that Iam looking forward to putting in the Tipo 750 that Icame into recently.

Josh

P.S. If anyone one knows where Ican get some cores for the Tipo 750, I would appreciate the tip.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I loved the Webra 61 racing rear exhaust with the dynamix carb....I still have one somewhere along with some NIB OS Hanno S , NIB OS 61 SF RF-P , NIB OS 60 FSR ABC , NIB 61 SF side exhaust and others.... great engines !

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

i love my rossi's all of them the 60.61, and 3+2 long strokes, but i have to say the os sx-wh 61 has some serious grunt as well probably as strong as they come, and easy to buy parts for still, picco's run hard as well not so easy to find or get parts for anymore some ops parts interchange as well sleeves and pistons rods , cranks etc

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

It is good to see the names of engines other than OS and Rossi mentioned in this thread.

The friend from whom I obtained my Super Tigre G60 ABC?Ring (Jim Emmons), also flew a good variety of engines in pattern. The one that impressed me the most was an OPS Long Stroke. Really serious grunt on low or no nitro fuel and perfect tractability.

I still have two NIB MDS rear exhaust pattern engines to play with, or trade-off. Whatcha got to trade? I only want to trade one of them, if someone is interested. Kits, tools, other engines, all sizes, etc...


Ed Cregger

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

MVVS 61 also a good candidate though not exactly freely available these days, they can readliy be had. I have one NIB with an aftermarket YS carb and regulator originally marketed for the Webra Speed - remember those?

I also have matching pipe, curved and straight headers, plus enough spares to rebuild if I wear it out or rotate the exhaust.

DF

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Thanks for the reminder. I too have one NIB, along with the factory Diesel head and the tuned pipe and header. Never got around to flying it before my health went South, so to speak.

Mine has a squarish cylinder jug and is a beautifully made engine. I can't remember where I bought it. It might have been Dar Zeelon or Pe Reivers.


Ed Cregger

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

How about some pictures of engines and/or engine and airplane setups? I'd like to see some of these.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Quikturn,


MVVS 10 CCM (061) in the replica Top Flite Taurus.


Cees

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Are there any RE engines that are still made? Looked at the Rossi web site and none were listed. I have a friend that is interested in building a EU-1A but is concerned about finding a motor for it.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Apart from the more exotic engines i only know about the MVVS that has a rotatable cilinder so side or rear exhaust all up to you it`s even kinda cheap attleast here in holland it is seems like availabilty in the US is a bit more difficult though

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Wouldn't a Jett .90 FIRE be a good match for this plane?

RE: [Awaiting Approval]
 

Yes.
Chris...<br type="_moz"/>

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

A lot of this information is already on the thread: "If you had to choose any 3" but a lot of people are missing it so here we go again.

First, a lot of the old favorites are gone now but there are still plenty of good engines being made today, including rear exhaust. You have to decide application before you choose an engine. If you want to fly in SPA events you have to use a side exhaust engine .61 or smaller, no pipe (I think the novice class is exempt from this rule. In one of those decisions no one understands, tuned mufflers like the Ultra Thrust (Nelson) and the Jett are allowed in SPA. Be aware, these mufflers are tuned for an RPM range, get the one for the range you plan to operate your engine in, they are worth the money and you will notice the difference. Nelson is no longer making the Ultra Thrust so the Jett is the choice. Don't bother trying to fight the SPA rules, they have a good event with good turnouts and they're not going to change. If you must have a pipe/rear exhaust/retracts, set up your plane for BPA/CPA events. If you have no plans to compete, do whatever you want engine wise.

The engines: a lot have already been listed and if you want a period correct engine, try Mecoa. If money were no object, I would choose the Jett almost every time. The only problem is Dub does not make a big case 60 size motor. He has a .76, .90, and a 1.00 available in side or rear exhaust and in the cast or machined case (BSE) versions. They are not cheap but if you want ballistic performance, they pretty much have no equal. Dub has a small case .60 ( I think .56 now) which will work for smaller, light airplanes but it is a high RPM engine. I asked Dub about one of these for a Tiger Tail and he told me with an 11x8, I would probably break the crank. His recommendation was the OS 55 AX with his Jett Stream torque muffler. Dub not only knows more about 2 stroke engines than almost anyone on the planet, he's a straight shooter and won't sell you something he doesn't think will work.

OS has discontinued the .61 but the .55 AX is a strong engine for its size, I would get the Jett or Mac's one piece muffler to replace the stock one. The .75 AX and .95 AX look like nice engines for non SPA but I have never run either.

My current choice as best buy is the NovaRossi. Several years ago they began calling all the aircraft engines Rex but they are still made by NovaRossi. They have 2 lines now in aircraft engines, the original Novarossi/Rex with blue heads and the new CR (Cesare Rossi signature) series with purple heads. The blue head engines are available in side exhaust .60 and rear exhaust .61. The side exhaust has a unique 3 bolt muffler pattern but the US importer, Planet Hobby has an adapter which allows the use of an OS .61 bolt spacing muffler. These blue head engines were an incredible deal when I first bought them 5 or 6 years ago for a little over $100 with no muffler. Prices have gone up but still very reasonable considering the quality. About 2 years ago after many requests for an engine made for normal mufflers, Cesare Rossi developed the CR purple head motors. There are a .46 and .57 in small cases and .60 and .91 in what we would consider the big case or 60 size motor, all CRs are side exhaust and include a polished, tuned muffler. The blue head engines come with an inflight adjustable carb, the CRs with a non inflight remote needle carb. On my .57 I found you can switch the plug in the carb with the remote needle and have a standard type carb if you prefer. The throttle arm on the carb is extended for helicopters, I was able to flip it 180 degrees and get it where I wanted it, close to the engine. My .57 will turn an 11x7 at 13,000 RPM on 15% fuel using the included muffler. It will turn a 10x6 at 16,500 with the same muffler so it has a pretty wide range (all props APC). The CRs are more expensive but they are beautiful engines and in my opinion, the next best thing to a Jett. I should have a .60 CR when I get home in a few weeks and I'll try and get some run time on it.

With the exception of Thunder Tiger, I don't buy Chinese engines but if you're on a budget, I think the TT .61 Pro is a pretty good choice, especially if you catch it on sale and have the discount code. I don't have a problem with the machine work on these engines, it's the quality of the metal I find lacking or inconsistent. That may change in the future and others have had good luck with some like the Magnum. I have not and for now I'll stay with US or Italian made (the German Webra is gone).

None of these engines are pumped and if you must put your tank on the CG, you're going to have to go aftermarket with something like a Perry pump or the Cline regulator, both still available. I don't like the added complexity and still put my tanks right behind the firewall. Besides, my flying is not good enough for anyone to notice me trimming the elevator as I burn fuel. If you can get by with 12oz. of fuel, I really like the Jett bladder tanks but 12 is the largest. I don't know where to get Tettra tanks, they may have something bigger.

Last, use the best fuel you can get. NovaRossi recommends a 50/50 castor/synthetic blend with total oil at 20%. If you're not sure, buy a quart of good castor and put a few ounces in every gallon of fuel, cheap insurance. Glow plugs do make a difference, I bought some Merlin plugs last year and really like them. Get a couple of each heat range and experiment on a practice day at your home field.

George T

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Nice post George. A lot of good information there. I'll have to look into NovaRossi in the future.

There is also the second hand market. I recently purchased a NIB OS FSR 61 ring and a NIB 61 SF-P abc engine at very reasonable prices. Both of them steals IMO. I think as more people are going electric more of the classic engines are showing up for sale.

Nice pic Taurus Flyer. Is that a regulator of some sort you have there?

Joe

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Yes Joe, a fuel pressure regulator.

Reference pressure is taken from a sensor tube near the air inlet of the carburetor to create a setpoint for the fuel pressure regulator at the same value as the air inlet pressure of the carburetor.

It's a method to eliminate the influence of the hydrostatic pressure differences and G-load caused by attitude of the plane and location of the tank. Only difference now is the distance between the centre of the regulator and the spraybar of the carburetor.

Picture made from another position does show the reference tube.
Temperature measurement of the glowplug base is done with a thermocouple and the cold junction is mounted on the regulator. This has advantages for the cold junction temperature compensation.



Cees

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Thanks guys....all plugs are gone


Odds of me ever running a classic 60 2C piped setup are slim to none......

I do have a small pile of glowplugs.....any interest (send a PM)?

6 K&B 1L
3 Rossi 5
3 Rossi 4
2 Rossi 3
3 Rossi 2
2 Rossi 1

Regards,
-

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

My first pattern engine was an OS 61 FSR ABC with a Macs header and an OPStunded pipe in something called a "Superfection" - circa the late 70s-early 80s. Next it pulled my side exhaust EU-1A for a couple of years. I followed that up with an OS 61VF ABC in the Deception I flew for a couple years. I ran that engine for many years through the 80s in several Tipo 750s with the pipe straight down the side of the fuselage. Man was that a slick setup. My LA-1 called for a pumped engine due to the inverted installation, so I went with an OS 61RF ABC. I flew that engine until times demanded a 120 sized plane. I had a YS 61R long stroke in there somewhere but we didn't get along very well and I sold it.

WARNING - slightly off "classic" topic but it's a piped 2-stroke. I had a variety of YSs (SF, AC, NC) for my 2-meter birds but finally settled on a Bully (nee Webra) 1.20 LS 2-cycle with a Bolly tuned pipe in a plane my friend Orland McKee built called an OMS. The picture below is yours truly at the Omaha, NE contest in August, 2000. It's the last contest I flew in.

I was looking through my collection of engines the other day. The list goes like this - as you can probably tell, I'm very fond of OS engines. They treat me very well for many years.

OS 60 FSR
OS 61VF
OS 61FSR ABC
OS 61SF ABC
OS 61SF-P ABC
OS 61RF-P ABC
YS 61AR
Bully 145

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Jim,

Nice looking plane ....

Scott

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Thanks Scott. That's the OMS I mentioned above. I wish I'd never sold that plane - it flew great!

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

Jim,

Are you going to come out this year and join the fun in and fly some classic pattern events her in the SE ?


s.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_013.htm webra racing 61f

my old but unused
os.61rf and not so old webra racing with pump and dynamix carb.

RE: Classic Pattern Engines Available
 

I'm hoping to be able to. It depends on how long it takes to get my old Escape flying and get in some practice. It hasn't been off the rack since 2000 and will probably need some rehab, especially the engine. The picture above from August, 2000 is the LAST TIME I flew any kind of RC, so I'm gonna be very rusty.

Heck, I don't even know which class I'd be able to fly and not completely embarass myself!!! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ssed_smile.gif

Jim