RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Sorry FB----I already have first place in line---Dan promised, (but our planes will no doubt be shipped the same day):)

Bob--I especially like the picture of the swooping fin--it's one of the defining characteristics of the Perigee.

BTW---Bob I have not bugged you because I've been working as fast as I can on one of the three prototypes of the new King Altair kit from Jeff at Homeandhobbysolutions. Hopefully Jeff will have an announcement thread similar to yours on the Classic Pattern forum. The kit will be buildable in two ways--either stock per plans, or in a slightly modified SPA "competition" version. I'm building the competition version. I'd include a picture--but this is a Perigee thread.

Looking forward to the Perigee as a winter building project.

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Bob will there be an access hatch to the elevator linkage inside the fuse? Could it be installed upside down so it could be reached from the bottom if necessary?

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Good idea Duane. I will add a suggestion on the plans.

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

OK, I'll be second in line!:)

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Any new developments? I see another thread on this model now, but I would still lean towards the Early RC version.

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Well, I must say it is my fault. I've been traveling a lot with work and have not gotten back on the build. Good to see another build and it seems to be going well. I should finish up the wing in the next few weeks and will post pictures and final assembly pics also. Sorry for the delay just been quite busy down here!!!

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

I know how you feel--I just finished and test flew the first King Altair prototype this week, (hope you don't mind if I include the picture). I didn't always feel like working on it, but felt obligated to try to get it done as fast as possible.

Bob, you've got some folks out here all fired-up to build a Perigee. Hope the kit will be released for this winter's building season.

Before your shop was too hot---I hope you have a heater out there--it's been cold here the last few days.

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Duane, a beautiful bird as all your models are. How's the weight compared to your previous models? I am still trying to shoot for under 5 lbs with the Perigee.

Yep I plan to finish up the Perigee and start finishing her up very soon. I like your picture of the Perigee so much I have decided to paint her up the same way.

Just picked up some Usaki Gold silk and some dope. Have to try to match the paint scheme colors. Also been working on this K&B .45 Greenhead a bit. Yep the shop has cooled down and I do have a heater!!! So its time to make some balsa dust!!!

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Bob;

If you can be somewhere between 5 1/4 to 5 3/4 lbs you'll be fine. Under 5 lbs might be too light to handle the wind----just guessing.

Tom Brett's original Perigee color scheme is the only way to go IMO---a very classy, tasteful combination of colors. I have used the dark blue wing bottom and transparent yellow combination before, and if there is a "problem" with that color scheme, it is that it is sometimes, just for a moment, it's hard to tell up from down, in spite of the dark blue wing bottom. It's worth it though:)

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Duane,

That is one nice looking plane. I'm sure a lot of people will be interested (including me) in seeing it fly.

Dan

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Thanks. I love this plane and the way it flys. It was the first "2-meter pattern plane", designed around 1965, at the same time his friend Ed Kazmirski was building his Simla.

Now for the part you probably won't like--it's had a few modifications. The airfoil is the same, the fuse is the same. The fin has the same rough dimensions as the original, but has a near vertical rudder line, (the original didn't).

The King Alair kit can be built two ways--the original stock version with the 80" wingspan, diagonal rudder and inverted engine, or the "Competition version", with the clipped wing, (80-70 inches), barn-door ailerons, (or not), and the modified fin. One of my scratch-built Altairs was built nearly stock with the inverted engine and 80" wing--it is the "sister ship" to the one, (orange/red/white) in the second Model Aviation article in the July 2007 issue; (which is now literally lost somewhere in the heavy brush around my Asheville field after a dead stick--no pun intended;)--it was too far out to glide back). The sister ship has not been flown yet.

You can also get a look at what the original looked like along with Vic Husak, its designer in the same issue.

BTW--I had a back-and-forth correspondence by e-mail and phone with Vic Husak, (in his 80s), during the last year of his life while the original Altairs were being built, and I shared all the construction photos with him for comment. I am gratified that he approved of the modifications I made based on the need to perform Knife Edge etc, (which was not a consideration in the mid-60s). He said he wanted to inspect one of the first kits, but unfortunately didn't get the chance. He did live long enough to know that his plane was still being flown and appreciated by vintage pattern enthusiasts. Until I contacted him, he had basically forgotten about R/C, (which he left in the mid-80s).

I was glad I had the chance to "meet" him.

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

OK guys. Here we start the wing. I have taken some pictures for comparison of the original ribs and spars along with the new fitted 3/32 lite plywood spars. Like I said when I started this thread this Perigee will not be an exact duplicate of the original. Her lines will remain accurate and she will be eligible for the VRCS Concours event but items like the plywood spars and landing gear ribs have been changed to make them stronger than the original. Unfortunately many of Hal's designs using the balsa spars were prone to folding wings. Seeing how this model can be flown in the SPA and BPA we want to make sure she can handle the extra stresses with the hotter engines. With that said here we go on the wing:

The plywood spars fit snuggly into the rib slots. I elected to use the curved spar arrangement due to design and for appearance when using the transparent covering materials. Notice I used some finishing nails positioning the wing at its proper shape before gluing. Us the smaller nails and put them below the rib line so the top sheeting can be installed while the wing is still securally held in place.

As shown, the ribs and spars have building tabs to insure an accurate and flat wing panel. I suggest sanding the laser points just a bit to get the brown off for a better adhesion of your glues. I generally do this before assembly but I wanted to test the fit of the parts as they came from the laser remember this is the prototype build whereas when I find a mistake it can be corrected before the kit goes into production. I will disassemble, sand and final assemble the wing.

Next I will install the pre-shaped trailing and leading edges. Maybe tomorrow. I am waiting for my balsa order to arrive to sheet the wing. I am considering adding the wing sheeting in the kit already laser cut to these arches to speed up the process but will have to pass it by Dan as this is quite a bit of cutting which increases cost. What do you think?

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Bob--

In answer to your question, the sheeting cut outs in the wing are one of the design characteristics of the Perigee that adds to the "cool factor" of the plane, and gives it those sexy lines. My vote would be to have the sheeting pre-cut if it could be done accurately during the kitting process. It will make it a lot quicker to build, and if done right originally, allowing for curvature etc, it will probably give more accurate results than each individual could do by hand without a lot of trouble. That's one of the things about a kit that makes it better than scratch building---you don't HAVE to do these kinds of things.

If it costs a little more I feel it is worth it---if it costs a LOT MORE, then it is a decision he'll have to make, but I think it would be a big plus.

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

OK, just finished up the top sheeting and cap strips. I've been keeping up with Nic's build and was concerned about the wing bowing issue he mentioned after unpinning. Fortunately I did not have that problem. It may be because I ran the wing sheeting parallel to the trailing and leading edge. Or because I am using light ply spars instead of balsa. I am not sure. I may still add a laser cut jig to put in place while sheeting the bottom of the wing like Nic and Dave suggested. It may be difficult on the original design as the dihedral brace is already installed thus making it harder to lay the wing flat for a jig. This is one change I made in order that the dihedral brace will be the one of the last parts installed.

Duane, I drew up the wing sheeting and temporarily attached it to the sheeting to get the correct curve. I still think it is better to laser cut these so I plan to offer this sheeting in the kit as you suggested.

My original DeBolt kit really did not locate the wing taper as I would like so I added taps to the spars also to insure the correct taper along the centerline.

Anyway here is the wing with top sheeting and cap strips. I will add leading edge after the bottom sheeting has been installed. Still waiting for my balsa order from Lonestar. Its been over a week and they said it may ship today. Strange as they usually turn them around quite quickly.

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Very nice. Your sheeting follows the plan better than mine, because I just used a set of large french (ships) curves to get the approximate shape.

The comparison of the two different kits is very interesting to me. I don't intend to use the original nose configuration, since I don't see the need to push the nose wheel up, I'm just going to put it on the firewall. Also, I will be using a modern engine mount.

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Nick, I agree with the nose wheel and motor mount. Too much of a headache! Had to keep it as close to original as possible but usable. I think I am going to go with the bolt on wing like you. The holes are there for the dowels for the pure at heart but I hate the rubber bands!! I am not getting much success with the GreenHead .45 so I may put a Thunder Tiger .46 in her. Really want to make her a dependable regular flier. Still want to do the silk and dope finish though!!

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

For finish I'm using yellow super coverite on the wings and regular coverite on the body. Then dope in the original color scheme.

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Well, just placed an order for some balsa from Tower. Looks l won't be getting my Lonestar Balsa order in. They had a fire yesterday and it sound pretty bad. Man, they had some special sizes I can't get from anyone else. Hope all goes well for those guys!

So as soon as it gets in I will finish up the Perigee.

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

That is the worst news I've heard in a while. I hope no one was hurt. I really hope they will rebuild and open for business again. I was just getting ready to place an order.

http://www.lonestar-models.com/

David

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

HI Bob,

I was just reviewing this whole thread, and did I notice your Vertical stab is just 1/4 sheet? That is very tempting vs. building the ribs.

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Bob--Don't know if they have the ability to hand-select balsa. When I scratch-built my King Altairs I wasn't as informed as I am now, nor did I have a digital postal scale. I ordered much of the wood from Tower without any specifications. Going back now and weighing some of the left over wood compared to Jeff's kit wood from Balsa USA, some of it was nearly twice as heavy[X(][>:]--it all adds up.

Will they, (Tower) grade and send you selected wood--if not, I hope it is better than I received?

Duane

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Well, I could not fid any contest grade balsa from Tower. My order suppose to arrive tomorrow so I will check it when I get home. I also placed an order with National Balsa on many of the formed trailing edge parts but I received an e-mail stating due to the fire at Lonestar they have been slamed!! I have AK Models doing my laser cutting and Alex generally supplies good wood. He is a builder and kind of selects the weight and firmness quite well in past kits. We will see. Mine does not feel heavy and actually many of the parts are lighter that the originals in the DeBolt kit I have.

Nick, my original DeBolt kit which I based my version on has the all 1/4 balsa vertical. It is in 4 different pieces and the rudder is 2 separate pieces. I went with a 1 piece rudder and a 3 piece vertical all 1/4 inch wood. See picture. The magazine article version has the built up tail. I think using 1/4 balsa would OK. Hopefully if my order get in I can finish up the wing this weekend.

Bob Harris

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Has anyone tried Dynamic Balsa? 8178 used them (I believe) for much of his Blue Angel build and was quite happy with them. I know they will try to accomodate requests for light wood if they have stock available.

http://www.dbalsa.com/


Mark

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

There is also [link=http://www.solarbo.peachhost.com/ct_catalog.htm]Solarbo[/link], which I've never tried, but I think I read somewhere that they offer contest grade wood.

David

RE: PERIGEE Prototype Kit Build
 

Wow, I didn't realize the DeBolt kit was simplified. The PassTime has the original curved ribs. Since I have them, I will use them, but if it comes out warped, it is good to know the slab is original.