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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Gents,
There arrive new data, thanks Ray! I will give it some attention. (Hope you don't mind I use a page from post 963 page 39!) The reporter of American Modeler does write in the article about the Internationals, August 1963, Genk, Belgium the Oldest Taurus on Earth should have been more than two years old and winner of the Lufthansa awarded trophy for Concours d'Elegance. I think the reporter notes in his article Ed also did fly with the Oldest Contest Taurus, but we know he only did use the wings of the original oldest one. He did write:“The familiar red white and blue finish seemed >>>>>>>>>” Is this again a incorrect notation “The familiar red white and blue finish” and does have finish has to be “finished” to be the substantive for the old contest plane? “Blue” is an indication that the reporter didn’t could take a close look to the plane (I THINK) because the bottom is black. The color scheme of Ed’s both planes was exactly the same and I think that had a reason!(Who knows this reason?) Most important for us is of course the “was built more than two years ago ”!! Now a second date we can calculate and note in the “Taurus construction and flying schedule” (TCFS) and makes with the other dates the “possible first flight period” . The new first flight date still fits with the Invitational of Detroit of course. I did take a look for the weather conditions in the weekend of 8 and 9 July, just for fun because somewhere between the weekends of 8 - 9 April and 8 - 9 July probably the first flight take place. Saturday 8 April 1961, 21 degrees C, 70 degrees F, Wind speed 13 mph, 21 km/h, Wind direction N. Sunday 9 April 1961, 21 – 27 degrees C, 70 – 80 degrees F, Wind speed 5 mph and after 4 o’clock pm 10 mph, Wind direction NW. So temperature higher than Saturday but less wind speed. Sunday much better test weather. Covering of the wings takes a week more time because of some “ventilation organization restrictions” because we all try to keep the atmosphere in a good condition! LOL!! Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer He did write:“The familiar red white and blue finish seemed >>>>>>>>>” Is this again a incorrect notation “The familiar red white and blue finish” and does have finish has to be “finished” to be the substantive for the old contest plane? “Blue” is an indication that the reporter didn’t could take a close look to the plane (I THINK) because the bottom is black. The color scheme of Ed’s both planes was exactly the same and I think that had a reason!(Who knows this reason?) Most important for us is of course the “was built more than two years ago ”!! Cees Under certain lighting and sky conditions, (such as a clear blue sky) the Aerogloss Black Ed uses has a decided bluish look as the blue in the sky is reflected in the black paint. I had a black sports car once that was the same way...it's a weird characteristic of shiny black paint. However there is no way the bluish tint could be considered a dark blue, so the reporter obviously got it wrong. There is a danger in taking some comments too literally, however since the reporter says it's blue...it must be. The pictures below show both of Ed's planes under a blue sky. Duane |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Gents,
(Duane read first before answer, of course I know what finish means!) We did write about the fuel tank before and here they are! Howard Bonner and the Smog Hog and Daniel Bernoulli the Dutchman the “Golden Team”. See picture 1 and 2: The air inlet tube on the same level as the spray bar gives you a constant fuel pressure in normal horizontal flight as long as the level is above the air inlet in the tank! On the Smog Hog you even could rotate the tank to adjust!! The lower air pressure above the fuel level is the same as the hydrostatic (fuelstatic?) pressure of the fuel, so compensation!! Look to the control liners but the RC-pilots also knew in the past. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Gents, because I have some time to spend, Friday I can continue covering the wings, I did create some
[size=3]“Education information”.[/size] We did talk sometimes about the Award the Concourse d’Elegance Ed did win with his Faithfull Old Taurus in 1963 during the Internationals in Belgium Genk. Concourse d’Elegance, after we see the Award from Lufthansa in 1963 in Genk Belgium. Would we find this kind of award also in another country somewhere on the world?? It is important for us, modelers to see if the Internationals are important for worldwide promotion of our hobby. Here we have something to prove and I have done an independent, completely neutral research. TEST I did blindfold myself with a big map of the whole world punched on the wall in front of me. With a needle I did make a punch in the map (Dutch: steekproef) to give me a random location, maybe township, in a random country somewere on our globe. Result: “Mount Darwin” a township in “Rhodesia”! Never heard about that place: “Mount Darwin”! Where for the hell could be that country?”Rhodesia”! After some research I did find an example that people also there, in the middle of nowhere, Africa!, did know about a concourse d’ elegance for model airplanes: READ ORIGINAL: Extracted from the May 1970 Ndege which was made available by Johnny Ness. Aeromodelling Success • April 1970 It is inevitable that some of those who spend their days flying or servicing aero planes should often spend their evenings tinkering with aircraft models. It is doubtful whether 'tinkering" is quite the right word to use when describing the hobby of Senior Technician Eric Bell, but there is no doubt that amongst aeromodelling enthusiasts, he's one of the keenest. Eric has been at the glue and the balsa wood since he was nine years old, but it is only during the past year that he has branched out into the field of radio-controlled models. However, he developed his building and flying skills to a sufficiently high pitch to qualify for the National Team. Together with three colleagues from the Mashonaland Model Club, he represented Rhodesia at the South African Radio-Controlled Model Championships which were held in Pretoria at Easter. Flying his $600 models at speeds of up to 100 mph, Eric scored outright victories in two individual events, gained a third placing in the 'Concours d'Elegance', and was adjudged 4th over all in the National Champion¬ships. The secret of his success? "I owe it all to Flight Lieutenant Rich Brand", he said, "He has taught me all I know about radio control, and most of my aero planes are built from his designs. He was also non-competing Manager of our team at Pretoria, and he gave us a lot of coaching." Flight Lieutenant Brand is, of course, an ex-South African Champion in the event-nice to see the ‘Old Hand’ still in there, helping along the younger generation. Thanks Johnny It is nice to see again that already in 1970, 7 years after Belgium, all modelers were connected. But we already did know that, read the post 301 Page 13, Ed Kazmirski's Taurus. I think he would prefer Zimbabwean (although perhaps not these days) That's a bit like calling a Canadian an American - they don't like that at all !!! Yes, the Panzer of course was designed by Rich Brand who was a pilot in the Rhodesian Air Force before he emigrated to the US. Ray Ohh, and then again things becomes clear: Calling a Zimbabwean a Rhodesian, that's a bit like calling a Canadian an American?? Canadians and Americans I did read about them also before, 20 of them in Detroit. The Detroit Invitational. Did Rich Brand ever win the Detroit Invitational’s? More to come, especially questions!! One thing we already know, first places only for Taurusses!! Second point never change the sequence of facts. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
Did that posting have a point? I'm trying to decipher what you were thinking when you wrote it, and I'm coming up empty.
BTW, there is no "E" on the end of Concours. Andy |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Beats me Andy [:o] I'll use it as an excuse to post a nice shot of Eric Bell's Belaire, presumably taken in Zimbabwe (Rhodesia)
Rather derivative of Rich Brands' designs, and now you know why. Ray |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
Yes, Andy
Now it is good I did learn you the Andy Kunz cross!! A "concourse" from “concur” and means a place where people (or nice animals) come together. I like it this way, just like ATITUDE with capitals. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ATITUDE Ray |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
Ray, it is just as with Andy, keep on fighting
ORIGINAL: AndyKunz Message shortened by Taurus Flyer I have really gotten a lot of laughs from this thread as you tell us what us was thinking. My wife tries to do that, but she's nearly always wrong. And we've been married 23 years! ROFL! Andy So! No Ray, it is Brazilian, “ATITUDE”, but it has more to do with the shape of the word, the topside, when you use capitals, like the top surface of an aircraft cariere (Oh sorry “carrier”) What ATITUDE means , I don’t know! Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
This is getting really wiered!
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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
"Weird" may be correct, but "eccentric" for sure. The best post lately was the young woman holding the plane;)
Duane |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer Ray, it is just as with Andy, keep on fighting Who am I fighting with? Not you, I hope. I didn't think I was fighting with anybody. I'm just trying to figure out what you're trying to say. I think Batman and Robin would be baffled by your riddles, too. Andy |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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ORIGINAL: AndyKunz ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer Ray, it is just as with Andy, keep on fighting Who am I fighting with? Not you, I hope. I didn't think I was fighting with anybody. I'm just trying to figure out what you're trying to say. I think Batman and Robin would be baffled by your riddles, too. Andy I was kidding, playinf around a bit. My point was you started with: “I'm coming up empty.” That was also the first situation about the story ; Mr. K goes to Africa. Everybody who reads my posts is coming up “more or less” empty, result, I manipulate the situation so I am right especially when we speaking about characters in a word of name. There are a lot more more important facts! All the background information is “with a smile!” I show you what I mean?: What is the “Meyer drawing” or “Meyers plan”? I only know: Lt. Cmdr. Frank Myers, someone from the “Dark corners of Chicago”, alias Frank With The Beard. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer ORIGINAL: AndyKunz ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer Ray, it is just as with Andy, keep on fighting Who am I fighting with? Not you, I hope. I didn't think I was fighting with anybody. I'm just trying to figure out what you're trying to say. I think Batman and Robin would be baffled by your riddles, too. Andy I show you what I mean?: What is the “Meyer drawing” or “Meyers plan”? I only know: Lt. Cmdr. Frank Myers, someone from the “Dark corners of Chicago”, alias Frank With The Beard. Cees Just the same, I guess I must be careful in the future what I post, since I now know you will use these thing for your own "evil purposes" Duane |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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ORIGINAL: kingaltair CeesThat is MY Taurus you took that pilot from. That is my Dad's very own hair on the "beard". Actually it doesn't look too bad...very much like a 3-D version of the pilot from the Myer plan. Just the same, I guess I must be careful in the future what I post, since I now know you will use these thing for your own "evil purposes" Duane The right one is your plane, they left one is only looking the same Duane. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Gents,
In post 17 and 19, page 1, I already did show a fast goniometric check to see if the fuselage in the crate can be the plane we see on the Top Flite/MAN drawing. The picture is of the fuselage of Oldest Taurus on Earth, on the right side in the crate. All the lines must be (nearly) parallel and cross each other in the “Point of view”, the position of the photo camera on the moment the photo was made. The picture is rotated because the position has to be square on/related to, the lines to "Point of view". It is not possible to find an angle of view, or positions, in which this is possible to draw all the lines nearly parallel. The max is 3 lines (nearly) parallel, look to the blue lines, they are not “in line”. The first picture is the same as of post 19 on page 1. Second picture shows us that I can use the same lines for the Frank Myers plans, I did use for the Top Flite/MAN Taurus The positions of the remarkable points of the Frank Myers plans are all exactly the same. So the fuselage on the right side in the crate cannot be made with the MAN/Top Flite plans neither the Frank Myers plans. For the wings I do use other methods and proves. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
Cees,
One of the beauties of photography is lenses. You also NEED to know the lens geometry and the position of the lens relative to the subject in order to do what you're trying. For instance, if I use a lot of light, I get a very large depth of field (area in which my subject is in focus). I get a very sharp image. Unfortunately, that can distort the subject, especially as the subject and camera are closer. You can easily end up with a tapered wing where the tip close to you measures the same (or even WIDER) than the root, while the other wing panel looks like it has extreme taper. I do close-up photography all the time, and it's something you ALWAYS need to consider when composing a photograph. The photo of the fuse in the box was not well-composed, especially not for what you're trying to do. You can get decent measurements if your subject is far away and only a small portion of the FOV. Again, you CANNOT do what you attempted without knowing ALL the geometry: lens diameter, focal length, distance to subject, and angles of lens to subject. I wish you could. Andy |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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Andy, I read:
ORIGINAL: AndyKunz Cees, One of the beauties of photography is lenses. You also NEED to know the lens geometry and the position of the lens relative to the subject in order to do what you're trying. For instance, if I use a lot of light, I get a very large depth of field (area in which my subject is in focus). I get a very sharp image. Unfortunately, that can distort the subject, especially as the subject and camera are closer. You can easily end up with a tapered wing where the tip close to you measures the same (or even WIDER) than the root, while the other wing panel looks like it has extreme taper. I do close-up photography all the time, and it's something you ALWAYS need to consider when composing a photograph. The photo of the fuse in the box was not well-composed, especially not for what you're trying to do. You can get decent measurements if your subject is far away and only a small portion of the FOV. Again, you CANNOT do what you attempted without knowing ALL the geometry: lens diameter, focal length, distance to subject, and angles of lens to subject. I wish you could. Andy I understand you are worried. But be not afraid not only Daniel Bernoulli and Anthony Fokker are helping me. Also Gemma Fricius the Dutchman, I will show you in this post, see picture 1 Explanation About the picture 1. In the past I did get the very important high resolution picture of the “Box of Pandora” the crate of Africa. The picture is made by Ed Kazmirski. I cannot find any distortion of the straight lines of the crate and they are all over the picture! So there is no measurable pincushion distortion or barrel distortion. It is just like the picture is made with a Camera Obscura. No wide angle or telephoto lense is used. Camera Obscura1 Gemma Fricius, Dutchman 1508 – 1555 did make the first drawings of the Camera Obscura. The result of a picture with the camera obscura is an exact copy of the example. Characteristic of these pictures is there is no distorsion, bended lines are bended lines, straight lines are straight lines. No lenses are used in this camera (like the pinhole camera). About the picture 2 The picture of the crate is taken on a very sunny moment of the day so with a little diaphragm hole, the result is, the picture is sharp in any detail. Also the distances all are within a ratio of about 1:2 so little difference in depth. I did show the hinges of the ailerons in the past! Because I do not see any corner shading or flare, we see the camera and lens must have been of very high quality and we all know that from Ed Kazmirski. Inverted Camera Obscure 2 To reconstruct the drawing I did use the inverted method of the Camera Obscura. The result of a picture with the camera obscura is an exact copy of the example. When I use the inverted method the result will be the same, no distorsion. I do not use one hole between the example and the copy but a mask with a lot of holes between the laser and the copy drawing. I can do this because a laser beam is never bended. The laser is on the place of the pinhole of the camera obscura and the mask between the laser and the copy drawing. The mask does not have to be a mirror image for this reason! See the beaming on first posts of the thread. Rest the accuracy? As accurate I can make the mask with an industrial high resolution plotter and the position of all the parts! Check? If I want I make a high quality picture of a second crate with my planes I can check with the master picture by photo shopping. If I invert my method again I have again the Camera Obscura and I can make from the crate a new mask, just change the laser in a hole and make a mask behind the hole!! If I want a second plane, after making a crate picture and corrections (in mm’s!), it is possible! Conclusion! I do not have to and will not stop until I have my Wester Taurus, even if you say: “Again, you CANNOT do what you attempted without knowing ALL the geometry: lens diameter, focal length, distance to subject, and angles of lens to subject. I wish you could” Because I know I can and because all I do is the best for YOU. The picture 2 I show, is the result of the test I did for you, a fast check to find the right positions and angle so I have 5 parallel lines. More to follow. Cees, |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
Cees, maybe you could persuade Andy by explaining why you show lines that are parallel and not focused to the point-of-view. After all he pointed out that distances nearer to the pov look bigger than those farther away. So in the crate picture the fuselage nose appears to be short and the tail long, and it seems you didn't take that into account.
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RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
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ORIGINAL: UStik Cees, maybe you could persuade Andy by explaining why you show lines that are parallel and not focused to the point-of-view. After all he pointed out that distances nearer to the pov look bigger than those farther away. So in the crate picture the fuselage nose appears to be short and the tail long, and it seems you didn't take that into account. You are right UStik, I did use this method for a "fast check" not to copy the Frank Myers plans. " parallel and not focused to the point-of-view." When parallel this is theoretical with the point of few "between the stars". When there is a difference in plan and reality at least one of the lines crosses somewere another on a other place than in the point of few, where ever that point of few is. You allways find positions and an angle so there are three lines parallel. You must do this check with at least 4 lines! So where ever you make the point of view you can do the check. To copy the reality the distance to the point of view is most important. The picture of the crate is realy a "Box of Pandora" because the crate is on the picture there are references all around the fuselages to calculate everything because all the lines are straight. Even when you know the POV there is a lot to calculate. Example: we do not look exactly on the top of the fuselage! there are a few degrees so I can reconstruct the fin. The picture of the crate the most important Snap Shot? No Ed could not have made this picture better!!!! To give some extra information A picture shows us more than hundred words! Picture 1, Camera Obscura also inverted Picture 2 point of few the fuselage in the crate. Picture 3 Old as the way to Rome, without lenses Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
And where is the translation of the Latin text? :D
(Maybe the impression would be better without the ornamental accessories.) |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: UStik And where is the translation of the Latin text? :D (Maybe the impression would be better without the ornamental accessories.) Maybe the impression would be better without the ornamental accessories? Look to the impact (impression?) when this kind of objects within all these ornamental accessories hits the ground after a "Deadstick" UStik. Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer A picture shows us more than hundred words! The readers (including me) would be impressed even more if you'd omit the ornamental accessories (or at least translate the Latin ;) ). I find the first picture most impressive and suggestive (Gemma aside). Isn't geometry amazing (as well as photography)? :D |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: UStik The readers (including me) would be impressed even more if you'd omit the ornamental accessories (or at least translate the Latin ;) ). My thread is only to show you how I duplicate the Taurus in the Crate, not to impres (impress?). ORIGINAL: UStik Isn't geometry amazing (as well as photography)? Cees |
RE: Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer My thread is only to show you how I duplicate the Taurus in the Crate, not to impres (impress?). |
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