RE: Banshee
 

I used Nelson paint on my Blue Angel. Good paint, easy to use but you need some humidity to keep the paint flowing once it's on your plane. I did some late fall painting and the paint dried before it could flow out smooth.

Of course getting the paint can be a real adventure. I never received my last order from Jerry, no communication or product ever. I finally canceled the order and got a refund from my cc.

RE: Banshee
 

Doug I tried really hard to paint with my Badger airbrush. I just wasn't able to get enough volume with it. I borrowed a regular spray gun and compressor from a friend last year and that obviously the way I had to go. I now own my own spray gun and compressor.

ChiefK

RE: Banshee
 

Thanks for repeating that process Matt. I'm still trying to improve the look of my finishing.

ChiefK

RE: Banshee
 

I sent an Email to Auto-Air Colors regarding my plans for finishing off the Banshee. Perhaps I wasn’t clear regarding my reference to a “2 part Urethane Clear Coat” (I was trying to describe SprayMax Clear in a spray can), but my inquiry has been answered in full. Below is our correspondence.

Hello,

Can you tell me if there will be any issues (adherence, reaction, blistering when exposed to UV, etc.) in applying Auto-Air 4200 Series Semi-Opaque paints over a "two part, water-borne linear polyurethane enamel" epoxy primer? Or less specifically, System Three Yatch Primer?

http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrar...Literature.pdf

I wish to use your product for a Radio Controlled Airplane, that has be given an Epoxy Finishing Resin and Fiberglass finish, then apply the System Three Primer to fill any minor imperfections, apply appropriate Auto-Air Primer, provide the color scheme with Auto-Air 4200, and finish coat with a 2 part Urethane Clear Coat to fuel proof.

Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Doug


Hello Doug:

Thank you for contacting Auto Air Colors. Please find attached our application guide. We’ve revised its technical sheet linked below and believe the System 3 resins and clears should work very well with Auto Air Colors. Scuff the primer with 600 - 800 grit sandpaper, clean then apply Auto Air 4000 Series Sealer, http://autoaircolors.com/products/pa...00_frames.html. Then apply graphic colors. Allow colors to thoroughly air dry before top-coating with the clear. While we most often recommend top-coating with solvent-based, urethane clears, the 2-part water-borne polyurethane enamel should work well. However, we highly recommend a test panel prior to clearing the actual project to determine any application or technical issues before hand so you get the best possible finish on your RC airplane. If we may be of any further service, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Auto Air Colors
Technical Support


I’ve finished glassing the fuselage, and have applied the first coat of resin. So far, so good. I’ll get some thoughts and photos up in a bit.

And my thanks to Auto-Air Colors for taking the time and effort in providing a personal response to my questions.

Doug

RE: Banshee
 

The glassing is nearly completed, and after a push in the right direction from MattK, I found a process that works for me.

After applying the glass with thinned resin to the fuselage, a fairly thin coat of un-thinned resin was applied with a plastic squeegee. Not a lot of pressure was used, but it was spread thin enough so that the weave of the fiberglass could still be seen (first photo, above the wing saddle), then a light sanding with a sanding bar on the flat surfaces to remove the high spots. This is where I was going wrong with the wing, as I was sanding anything that was glossy, and really didn’t know how deep I was sanding on subsequent coats of resin.

After a light sanding, a second coat of un-thinned resin was applied in sections with a foam brush. I only worked in sections that I could complete with about a half ounce of resin, and applied in about 5 minutes. Application was much like regular painting; dip the brush into the resin and spread it. The foam brush really eliminated any of the tears and divots I was experiencing with the wing. Brushing on the bias seems to pull the resins together, and you can work the material for a good 15 minutes. And again, the tape left a ridge to identify the depth of the resin (second photo).

The third and fourth photo shows the stab after the second coat of resin partially sanded with a bar, and the final result.

The last photo is of the finished product.

The total weight gain of the fuselage (after sanding) of the un-thinned resin applied after adhering the fiberglass is 30 grams. Total weight of the plane at this point (less control horns, servo and motor screws, clevis, wing fillets) is exactly 7 pounds. Don’t know if I’ll hit the 7 ½ pounds, but it oughta be close.

System 3 primer has been received, and I’ll start playing around with that this week.

I’m afraid that now I’ve got to start seriously thinking about a paint scheme….. Oh, the horror.

DougC

RE: Banshee
 

Doug,

The methods we've been discussing are timeless and really work well. But never one to rest on old habits, I will be doing my wing and stab of my new airplane a bit differently this coming spring.

Wings are foam, balsa sheeted and bagged, as are stab halves. Have not decided if I'll use glass, carbon veil or silkspan yet. The method requires a top and bottom mylar sheet cut to fit the panels exactly. The inside of the sheet will be painted first and after the paint dries, the cover material will be tacked on. Finishing resin will then be applied and excess blotted off. The mylar will then be fitted on the wing and the whole thing bagged. Should be able to bypass most of the sanding steps until the very end.

This is sort of a lazy man's way to a composite, painted in the mold wing. I am very curious if I can make a wing lighter with this method. I will be outlining the method (photos and text) in my Derivative thread in the other pattern forum

RE: Banshee
 

Now we’re starting to have some fun!

The System 3 Primer seems to work well. Mixed 4 to 1, it is nearly odorless, applies nicely unthinned with a 1 ½" China Bristle brush, and covers a variety of sins. Sanding is easy, and 320 grit is almost too aggressive, especially on the curved areas. My workshop in the basement is, even in winter, about 55% humidity, an average temperature of about 62°, and the primer has to have a good 24 to 36 hours prior to sanding. I’d guess that there is a fair amount of water in it, as the fuselage gained 51 grams when weighed right after application (remain calm, this will end well), but was down to 19 grams after 24 hours of drying, and 11 grams after sanding (last photo).

Perhaps a small thing, but washing out my good paint brushes was easy. The primer doesn’t build up that ridge on the brush like latex paint, and 60 seconds under hot water, dry, and the brush is literally as new.

For the (hopefully) last coat of primer, I will try an Air Brush, and sanding with 400 grit. If the tip size of the Air Brush is determined by hole size of the tip, I have a 1.3mm tip, so I suspect that it will work.

Doug

RE: Banshee
 

Nice work Doug!

How's the Auto Air working out?

David

RE: Banshee
 

Well David, I can tell ya that a Mini HVLP "Euro-Pro Astro" Spray gun has been ordered, along with .8, 1.0, and 1.3mm tips, and a 2hp compressor is sitting in the garage.

However, I’d like your input regarding which Auto-Air to use; Transparent or Opaque? If left to my own devices, I’d go with the Opaque, but I’m finding the actual color of the final product difficult to discern, as different Retailers show different colors on their Web pages. I think I trust the Auto-Air .pdf the most, but since I believe that you’ve seen Auto-Air paints, I ask.

Also, any thoughts on weight gain from the paint. Not sweating the weight (sitting at about 7# 2oz AUW right now), but my ignorance is bliss.

Been doodling, and need to consider how the colors will flow into the wing and stab, but I seem to keep coming up with the same thing. So a couple of pictures/ideas………

RE: Banshee
 

Doug,

Like the first rendering.....nice work, looking great.

Mike

RE: Banshee
 

Nice job. I always appreciate a color scheme that flows from body to wing to tail pieces, looks unified.

RE: Banshee
 

My eyes really like the color white in the sky. Most everything else seems to simply turn into a contrasting outline to the white on the plane; other colors are just black to me.

The mid-wing design of the Banshee seems to make it difficult to run a line down the side of the fuselage, and the fuselage at the tail is very slender, with the flat side just before the stab of only 2”.

I’ve got to take a ¾ top view photo of the assembled plane and see how these side views work into the wing and stab. Although the first rendering looks the best to my eye, I think it gets a little “busy” at the rear of the fuselage (tail heavy if you will), and also has the least amount of white on the side and top of the fuselage; but it’s the only one of the three that has the same transition of color for the wing and stab.

Based on a single line to delineate the white, I guess it’s a choice of whether or not to run that line above or below the stab. I’ll do some more work on that ¾ view.

Thanks for the kind words.

Doug

...Bump...

Has the Banshee been finished, did it fly?

Dominik

Hey Dominik,

The short answer is no. I got a bit more done on it, tried to post some photos awhile back, and found this forum a bit problematic. However, it has since been sitting on a shelf awaiting final painting, as my air-compressor broke ("The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a cheap price is forgotten"). But a replacement has been obtained this past year, a good HVLP gun is in my possession. Not sure that I'll get to completion this summer, but she is sitting front and center in the shop, and waiting patiently.

Thanks for your interest.

Doug

Hope you will be coming back to work on this beautiful bird again, just let us know.

Dominik

I have an old J&J Banshee kit from years ago. Always liked the lines of the plane except for that pointed vertical fin/rudder. Actually....the more I look at it ,,,the more I think it fits the rest of the fuselage. Was thinking of changing the vertical fin/rudder to a slight airfoil shape and adding a little length to the top of the fin/rudder to give it a more conventional look.

My question is, was it done for a reason? Would changing it detract from the knife edge charachteristics. Would be interesting to get a response from the designer himself to see if there was a reason for the unusual shape.

Hello FSFLYER,
If you are going to change anything, it is the tail length. The tail moment in the J&J kit was shortened to make the fuse sides fit into a smaller, cheaper to ship, box. This led to tail-wiggles on many examples built from the kit. The correct tail length is on the plans still available from Flying Models. That came from Jimmy himself.
I'll try to remember to measure the plans I have and give you the measurement. Meanwhile, do measure the length from wing TE at root to the rudder tailpost.
Regards,
Dean Pappas

Good info Dean. Here's the article with plans. You can use the scale on the plans to get a length for the fuse.

I have both sets of plans, and for what it might be worth, an original J&J box. My measurements show the following:



Flying Models Plans ---- J&J Plans
From Wing TE to Fin/Rudder Joint
25.5” ------------------------ 25.25”

From Wing TE to Nose Ring
20.75” -----------------------21.75”

OAL Nose Ring to Fin/Rudder Joint
46.25” ------------------------ 47”

I do not profess to have much understanding of aircraft design, and offer my opinions as just that; opinions.

That being said, the increase in the nose of the fuselage seems to be there to allow people like myself to more easily fit a 12oz fuel tank and retracting nose wheel in front. However, the increased distance to the prop/prop wash might contribute to different flight characteristics? or perhaps just some floppy pushrod installations?


I was aware of the difference in the fuselage when I started this build, but opted to have a simpler tank/nosewheel installation. Two things I did adopt from the FM plans was the airfoil (build article says that the selected airfoil was based on a Hal DeBolt design, and that was good enough for me), and I went with the barn door ailerons, rather than the strip (my only logic there was if Mr. Martin liked ‘em, then I like ‘em (plus they look cool)).


Should anyone like some more dimensions, I’d be please to provide.

DougC

Many many moons ago I built a Hal DeBolt Solution. The wing planform and airfoil that Jim used in Banshee looks very similar if not identical to that used by DeBolt. The Solution came a few years after Banshee but as I recall, DeBolt had stated that his wing design was taken from an earlier original work whose name I don't recall. It is probably somewhere in the Classic pages

The Solution flew very well. It was lost (crunched) in an early move around 1980...a shame. The foil will work fine in anything we fly today

Oh it just came to me...Interceptor.

Hi All,
I stand corrected: marginally shorter tail and noticeably longer nose ... Still, this explains the tail wiggles that folks complained about with kit version!
As you may know, the propellor is a destabilizing device (both in yaw and pitch) and giving it a longer nose moment arm makes things worse.
Regards, Dean Pappas.

Can anyone tell me where I can order a set of plans for Jim Martin's Banshee CF236?
Thanks,
George Asteris

http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/eac_kits/banshee.htm
Eureka also sells a kit (re-release of the original J&J kit), if you want to save some time.

My electric Banshee, completely scratch built.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2188451http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2188452http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2188453

Banshee at rest with UC electric Cobra by Steve Wooley.