RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Whoa, Jason your memory is good and 100% spot on. My slight wasn't directed at you personally but as a counter to Ed who did put you up on a pedestal to make a point. I try not to use name dropping and consider the practice akin to the "power handshake" and other intimidatory techniques, but that's just me on my side of the pond and name dropping might be be the done thing where Ed comes from??

Out of this though, my personal perception of your rounds (that I saw) was based on how we have been/are judged in Australia and there was a thread floating around about judging at the world championships this year and it was interesting that an Aussie spectator noted similiar "errors" in the rounds of yours he watched at the worlds that I "thought" you were making in Coolum. I think we tend to score (at local level at least) a little more to the ideal of pattern rather than to the letter of the rules.

"A bit crooked" will cost you a point even if your well within the 15 degree margin of error :-) Another downgrade is if your half rolls and such on 45 lines don't "look" as nice as the last bloke's even though technically you can't fault it.

I only saw Onda fly in person once and the conditions were shocking, he was flying a Goodshot at that comp and he and his team mate flew rock solid and so smooth. Frazer flew well but either he or his model was very nervous in the air and in a couple of maneuvers you could see his plane struggling.

Anyway, Ed apologies if I was out of line.

Cheers
Brett

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

I think cost is the largest factor. If SPA bans retracts to keep costs down, then they certainly should ban electrics for the same reason. I think they included the .91 four stroke because very powerfull .61's that existed in 75 or 76 are rare and expensive. A Magnum .91 or even an OS or Saito .91 costs less than a Jett .61.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

It would also be easy to have a resistor or other device to limit power, then once airborn a flick of a switch gives you more illegal power. Hard to check for this.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Magnum .91 or even an OS or Saito .91 costs less than a Jett .61.

A Jett .61 ? I saw Dave Phillip's buddy, think his name is Mike (sorry for not remembering), fly his plane with a Jett .61. I use OS61SF's, and that Jett would chew up my tail and keep on going. As far as I know, they are made on custom order basis. That should mean some extra buck's.

What is the price difference here?

Vince

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

A Jett .60 is $325 - $350.
OS .91 Surpass (no pump) $300
OS .91 Surpass (w/ Pump) $370
Magnum .91 FS - $150 - $200

I recently bought an (AXE) Rossi .61 with pipe NIB for $200....

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Electric cost / year
==========
Scorpion 4020-12 = $90
Turnigy Plush 80 ESC = $55
8 cell Turnigy battery charger = $65
(2) 6S 3700 Zippy Rhino batteries = $120
200 flights / year (4 / wk) Total = $ 330

Glow cost / year
===========
same 200 flights @ 8 oz per flight = 12.5 gallons @ $18 / gallon (more if higher than 15% nitro) = $225
so ..... if you spend more than $105 on a glow engine .... you would actually save money going electric.

Those same 200 flights using an OS .91 4S ($300 ) on 30% heli fuel @$25 / gal ($312) = $612

Ed

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Ed - Never thought of it that way. I would like to inject a little humor here, no offense intended to anyone.

Would if the guy flying nitro's, drives a 40 mpg vehicle to the contest, and they guy flying electric's, drives a 20 mpg vehicle to the contest.

I would like to add, they both have a vehicle that can carry the same planes, enough room, etc. Then, the guy with the 20 mpg vehicle, stays in a $50.00 room hotel, eats hamburger's. The guy in the 40 mpg vehicle, stays in at $100.00 room hotel, eats steak.

Would all the expense's be a wash? Just a little brain tease, and I did not add the original vehicle cost.

Crank

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Posting mistake.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Vince,

Guess it would depend on the distance they had to drive ..... but I like your thinking :)

My estimate was for powering a .60 size (SPA type) pattern plane. The 2M size is definitely not as favorable. The killer (to me) about the 2M pattern conversions is the battery charging requirement.
Since a couple charges on a 10S setup is all your car battery is usually good for .... unless you have electricity available at your flying field, you need a portable generator. To me, there is something
that is just not right about having to use a gas powered generator to charge your batteries ..... so you can fly with electric powered airplane :)

Ed

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

I see a market for a glow engine powered battery charger... :D

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Let's suppose contestant "A" buys a $200,000 RV that gets 10mpg to drive to 12 contests a year at an average distance of 300 miles. Then it doesn't matter what airplane he buys-it's all a drop in the bucket.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

What a concept :D.

We could use a tuned pipe on it, and retracts would allow easy rolling in and out of your vehicle :D.

Ed

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

If you're going to break one SPA rule, you might as well break them all!

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Travel has always been the big expense in pattern!!!!! It really doesn't matter how the aircraft is constructed or powered. Limiting aircraft to this, that or the other to supposedly keep cost down is really a fantasy.

gary

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Gary, what you and grotto2 have said is so very true.

Ed

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

I think the "keep costs down" goal is aimed at preventing the SPA from turning into every other contest where multi-thousand dollar equipment is required to be competitive. Look what happened to Q500. It started as a club event with the idea of using a basic (read cheap) airframe and a simple .40 size glow engine. Now unless you have a composite airframe and a custom Nelson, you might as well stay home. Today's pattern and IMAC events have become a showcase for who can spend the most money. I thick Mr Walker and the SPA are trying to keep the "club level" feel to the competitions.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Jeff,

I think that you're "spot on", and I applaud the concept and SPA's effort. It's the primary reason that I won't be competing at AMA levels anymore.

Greg

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Thanks Ed. I itemeized that here several months ago but except for a few it fell on deaf ears.

The real kicker is that LiPo's are good for more than 200 cycles, so the second year you are flying for free.

I think guys are scared off by buying a two-year supply of fuel up front. At least you don't need a pallet to store it!

Andy

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Seriously though, if someone shows up at my contest with an electrified Kaos I'm not going to turn him away.

SPA points are a different matter....

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Ron,

When's the contest? The Kaos only needs the battery put back in it and it's ready to go. But I'm gonna have to fly Novice according to the SPA rules.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

Even Zippy Rhinos? They'll probably be down to about 90% of the previous year's capacity.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

JAS,

If you are available on Memorial Day weekend 2010, the locals will fund your trip and I'll scrape up a "caller" for the SPA Novice pattern...at the Chicago Classic Pattern Championships.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

February 6-7. Here's a link to the flier:
http://www.vintagercsociety.org/cms/...id=5&Itemid=77

The way things are going, I may have to fly your plane, too, Jason.

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

What are the chances of a Blue Angels being there to fly :D. That weekend is usually free.

No problem Ron. With the Lipo Rx battery (that's still legal right ;)) I still don't think with 3 of us flying it we will have a problem.

*Ron, just read the flyer. If ballistics are welcome, does that mean that if I brought my Omega I can fly Expert with it? Might have to get the header tank in there sooner than later. Also, do you have a vintage plane we can fly in the VRCS portion?

RE: Electric's Phased Out of SPA
 

One thing to caution electric flyers about is buying too much stuff. The technology is growing by the day. Better motors and higher capacity batteries. The prices drop quickly as the best improves and moves the old to good. It is extremely expensive to fly the best. Be prepared to loose batteries, speed controllers especially during the learning curve, and then over time. I have seen miss use/ abuse claim them. I ruined one pack early in my learning curve. You will loose cells periodically, but the technology is improving. My biggest expense with electrics occured during a serious illness. During the process, I was unable to keep up with everything and lost several hundred dollars in batteries. I got nowhere near 200 flights from any of them, some never even opened from package....even though I paid the money up front. Some still work, but at diminished capacity.

All of my glow stuff had fuel ran out and was after ran oiled after last use. They weathered the situation fine. I had a couple of gallons of fuel that still runs engine OK. I did loose my glow ignitor battery. I took the batteries out of my Radios and replaced when health allowed a return. I spent a bunch of electric dollars and got a really bad experience from the whole deal. With glow, you kind of pay as you go.

I will still have and fly both. I will only have one electric plane and my stable of glow powered stuff. I am not worried about the $ of one electric, and I can afford to upgrade every year or two doing it this way. There is room for both. I just hate to pay for everything up front. With electric you will pay this amount regardless of how much you fly. I have yet to wear out a glow engine in some 28 ++ years of flying.

I wish everyone good health so they don't have to go through what I have. I would probably not be as cautious with electrics IF this had not happened to me. I have never lost as much money in the hobby as that loss cost me....

Happy Landings,
turbo