RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

What do you think, is it important to have the most important vanishing point of the plane within the outside borders of the logo?
It can prevent it looks like we are in a mailbox, looking to a pattern contest.

It is of course whatever you are planning to do with the area above the plane just something to think about.

I did enlarge tie picture to show that point.

(Of course you never could remove that wingtip!)

Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Cees,

This work is intended to be a logo, not an artistic scene. You may imagine that there is an implied border, but I purposely did not include a border. If the logo is applied to a wing as a decal, then the wing finish will be it's background. If it's applied as an embroidered logo on a shirt or hat, then the material these are made from will be the background. I don't believe the vanishing point matters for these uses. It could also be embossed as part of a contest plaque or trophy. Again, it is only one element in the overall design of whatever object it is applied to. It is not intended to stand alone. If I were to produce something to stand alone, I would produce something like the attached.... one of my favorite images (I use a larger version as "wallpaper" on my PC).

I agree, the left wing tip is necessary.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

I was thinking about this because we only see the plane in this close position when on the ground so any change of color (to the color of the air (blue)) is normally expected, so possible, on level of the vanishing point. (I think)


Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

The airplane was on the ground when this photo was taken. A logo is a simple design. subtle changes of color are not usually seen and embroidery simplifies the detail even more. I don't disagree with your statement, but I just don't think it is important in this kind of image. The image was extracted from the attached file.. I actually wanted an image that would primarily show the aircraft profile. This is as close as I was able to find (credit to Matt Kimbro for the great looking airplane - I hope it flys as good as it looks).

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

Last input,
It has to do with the balance of the picture, to give our eyes rest and still let the (3D!) plame the most important part of the logo. There was no reason to reduce the heigh.

Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Cees,

I'm sorry... I don't know what you mean by "... reduce the heigh".

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

It was just an idea.

Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Cees,

I appreciate your input. You clearly have an excellent knowledge of image composition, particularly from a technical perspective. I just don't know the word you used, "heigh", what it means.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

Sorry, wrong translation "vertical dimension", will be better.
We use height for that (not heigh!)
Because the logo is combined with a 3D picture there are some details we can think about.

Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

OK, now I understand. I actually considered converting the airplane photo into a two dimensional airplane in silouette, but the other feedback for the logo has been quite positive, so I'll leave it as is, at least for now.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

It is whatever you (all) want, an example, with that vanishing point,
On one moment you have to make the official outside dimensions

Succes Cees

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

You are right. CPA members will have the final say.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

How about using a real classic airplane?(not that the one shown isn't)
i have been flying an original Phoenix8 latelly that belonged to my brother inlaw Brian Defrance, he recently passed away and my sister graciously gave me his old Phoenix to put back together.this actuall airplane competed in expert (i think we called it "D" class back then) back in the late 70's here in northern and southern california. Brian reportedly won the district champs back in 79 or so.
I am still fying it regularly and i'm sure we could take some great pictures of it in the air or on the ground.
it is definitelly a classic survivor
Dave Shirley jr.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

I have to comment here!

“That is one gorgeous Phoenix 8 !!”

Now back to the discussion at hand.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Your Phoenix is certainly a beautiful airplane. While I have no personal connection to the Birdie Deception I used, I have to tell you that your Phoenix colors are not as good a match as the current model. I would have to basically remake the logo for your colors. Red, white, and blue are the definition of "classic" for many of us, but I'm willing to listen to the thoughts of the group.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

I have to admit my planes from back then were mostly red ,white and black and there were a lot donein that same scheme of colors
I cant take credit for the Phoenix paint sceme it is the same sceme that Brian painted it in the late 70's, it is red (with a slight purple tint), white,and blue fading to the yellow.
as with alot of the planes back then it is spectacular!
here is another picture of my sister and I recently when i took it out to fly at Brians old home field in santa clara
Dave.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Mmm...

first a brief comment about the discussion between Cees and Greg. I think there's some misunderstanding in that Cees assumes an implicit background as part of the logo. As Greg mentioned though, that is not necessarily the case. The background can be thought of being "transparent" with only the color elements in the logo delineating the border. In other words, anything white, that is not within the borders of the airplane would be colorless.

This actually poses a slight problem though. The the logo will stand out on just about any background that is of a different color than the blue and red in the elements (even yellow wouldn't be a problem despite the text). However, for anything that is white as a background the "definition" of the white elements will be harder to see. This is why I think we're struggling a bit with things like the wing tip and such. It's actually hard to make out what that is on the left side of the model (the wing tip). The white lower part of the rear fuse and the flying surfaces contain a lot of white and I think it will read with difficulty on white paper (letterhead and such) and as a decal on something like white model covering. One way to prevent this would be to produce a "context background" of some shape and color (could be an oval as proposed by Cees) in which the logo would sit.

So if the consensus is to use Matt's DB (it is a modified DB more closely than a modified Deception I believe), it might be necessary to produce a version with the background so that the logo "reads" on white backgrounds. Gray seems like the natural choice but black could be used too.

The other option would be to use a high visibility color in the model base that would read on just about any background color - the yellow to green spectrum happen to be those colours (eyes are most color sensitive to ~ 570 nm wavelengths). This is why I was suggesting folding in some yellow into the logo. This could be doctored in photoshop (swap color with a magic wand) on the DB or another model could be used.

Anyway, my intent is not really to get overly scientific about this but it turns out that it affects our perception of things like logos.

I'll try to address your posts Greg in the next note (have to re-read them).

David.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Greg,

when you are selecting the color in the palette, just choose one that is richer/warmer than the current. More sunset like if you will. Compare the before and after color chips so that the chosen color is less white and more orange.

I don't have a specific color in mind but try RGB 239/206/12. If it doesn't look much different from the current, add R and remove G&B until it appears more golden. I guess it's really a matter of seeing how it blends and stands out with the other colors as well as the white background. I assume you eye dropped the red and blue from the model? (If not they are pretty dang close!)

David.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Sure, I understand and agree.

The idea behind the suggestion was to actually remove dominance from the star. The presence of it at the moment is strong because of the high sat colors in it one beside the other. The white, as in the model, would give it (I feel) a little color break and result in a more elegant star - one that doesn't "weigh" as much - kind of like a pause in music.

However, based on some comments I made above, I'm not sure white is what we should be using, especially if Scott sees this logo as needing to appear on many a white background. Yellow (for "cheerful") or green (for "calming") might be better suited as base colors as well as color "breaks". In that case, they would be better as lower sat colors compared to the yellow I'm suggesting for the font.

Anyway, just ideas which could be fun to fool around with but I realize you don't have all day to work on this.

David.

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

I though a shield would be cool around a logo of some sort.

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RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

so i see we have more creative people.....

like the idea... of the middle but get rid of the cartoon letters ( font ), use the letters ( font )in the triangle and how is that color warm enough ?

so again we have added more idea's to the original post was to pick form the submissions and come up with 3 that will be put to the next round and as pointed out to a vote by the CPA paid members...

remember you can join the cpa mail list for free and the membership is $ 10.00 per year .. all at www.classicpatternassociation.com

so what your all think of the new design...

oh right now, the 3 that have the most votes are

star/plane
triangle
b&w line drawing with arresti

maybe that will change with the new idea's

remember we are looking for this on printers material, embroidered items and silk screened and vinyl decals...


ideas, comments , suggestions ??? anyone want to start a newsletter ??

scott

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

You're right David. I have to stop adjusting the logo until I return from Florida, but I'll be following the discussion (unless my Netbook has a problem of some kind). You were also correct about the transparent background. When I work with this in Photoshop, the background is transparent. It appears white when I save the file as a jpg so I can upload it to RCU. If it were going to be printed as a vinyl decal, I think the transparent nature of the background can be maintained.

As I continued to make adjustments, I began to think the "star" was too dominant. Maybe it should be smaller or thinner or both. Anyway, good luck making your final choice guys.

Greg

RE: Classic Pattern - pick logo
 

Have a safe trip.. I will send you a PM

scott