fcomer84

I have used "Go - No Go" gauges to check carburetors on race cars where modification was not allowed. If the gauge goes into the hole being measured, it is not legal. The beauty part is there are no numbers to read and nothing to look up. And everyone can see what is happening. Someone with a lathe and some aluminum round bar stock could easily make a bore gauge for the popular engines in the class. Remove the head, place the gauge in the cylinder and there it is!
Also, if I remember correctly, a 17/64ths drill bit is a good gauge for the TT 40 carb barrel.

BarryReade

My Feedback: (1)

You are right Frank but, I have machined a plug with a slot in it for the PRO 40 and it has a slot in it to pass around the idle bar and yes it is a go nogo gauge the size that the AMA uses for the 424 rules which uses the PRO 40 engine.  The point is there is a hundred ways to check the bores and not many or any are doing it.

skull1971

Brad, this is what some of us like so much about C40, "Not overloaded with rules."

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

We also have a rule. If you don't put your money up and protest, don't B@#$%. It's metioned at the begining of the race as a reminder.

skull1971

I like the single prop rule, but what prop?

I also like the idea of a $25 protest.

what else??

and as CD of the New Waverly events, I will add this,,, ANYONE CAUGHT WITH 46 PARTS IN A 40 WILL NOT BE WELCOME TO RACE IN NEW WAVERLY!!
I know this is harsh, and I think of ALL racers as my friends, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

fcomer84

Sadly, in ANY form of competition, there must be rules AND enforcement. Doped baseball players, traction control devices hidden inside tachometers, an extra Ace up the sleeve... somebody is gonna cheat!
Check the bore, check the carb, fuel up in an impounded area. That is about as simple as it gets.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

We use as much of AMA RCR-1 as possible. Same engine/prop rules as 424, APC 9x6.

Very similar for Q25. Any 424 legal airframe, os 25FX or AX and apc 8x6 and a weight concession of 3.25#. We are working on different engines for Q25 since the AX is so expensive.

That said I haven't seen anyone knowingly cheat around here yet. There have been the odd practice engines left on a plane and blush faced pilots but nothing I felt was malicious.

As far as prop tweakers go, if you are advanced enough to want to do this, a beginner class like C40 is not the place for you. Move on and play with the big boys in 426/428/422 and let the guys who are learning get the basics out of the way without the worry of getting beat in the pits. Having spec classes is all about removing the tweakers and all the pilots racing equal equipment.

stevelesl

I discussed this whole topic at our club in Alvin today, there were 4 of our 5 C40 racers there. Concensus is that we all knew some people were doing something to seriously enhance performance, just didnt know what. Now it's in the open, we feel pretty p***ed about it and as a result I cant see any of us travelling very far for race meetings this year.
We are looking at doing one race here in 2011 (date to be arranged) instead of our normal two.
By the way, speaking for Alvin club members (as the VP of the club and CD for C40 races here), there is another issue, our races have all been very well supported by non racing members, at least 8 members have always given up their time (and flying field) to work on timing, cut judges and cooking breakfast and lunch etc. Some of them were listening in today on the engine debate and I got the feeling that this is the sort of thing that will prevent us drumming up their assistance in future.
So, for you guys that felt it necessary to cheat (and by the way, we have our own views as to who they are, no proof of course) thanks for nothing, you have probably put a real dent in the sport in South texas, hope your happy with your little trophies and fastest time of the day bragging rights..........

skull1971

Steve, and to all. PLEASE let's not have a "Knee jerk" reaction to this and start not having races. I feel this should be an effort to enforce what we have and get rid of the "Bad apples."

stevelesl

This was a concensus, not just my view.

stevelesl

This may have been covered earlier or on another post but I just looked up the specs on the 2 engines on TT web site, I see that the 46 engine has a 1mm longer stroke as well as a larger bore, this of course means the 46 crank needs to be used also.
another full proof check would be a dial gauge through the glow plug hole to measure stroke, only takes a minute to do, or a machined T type guage that fits through the glow plug hole on the 40 and when the piston is at BDC the gauge is touching the piston, and the glow plug washer seat area, if a 46 crank is fitted, it will be obvious if the gauge doesnt contact the piston at BDC, just another thought.

Oldbob

Vicman, I disagree with you admonition of C-40 tweakers. 426,428 & 422 are three pole events, C40 is a two pole. What you are saying is that if you want to be a tweaker go spin your butt around pylons 2 & 3 like I use to do fifteen years ago. Many people, both young and old can not do that. So we opt for a two pole event where we can set on out butt and look at the race course 250 ft. away. Tweakers are fun people to be around; most will share their knowledge and you can learn a lot from them.

But we are getting off the subject, we are not talking about tweakers we are talking about cheaters.

Bob

skull1971

a "Go / No go" gauge was my thought. Working on it!!

Oldbob

Steve I can understand how you and your group feel. However I would hope that we would use this new information and tighten up our tech inspection and have better racing.

Georgetown still plans on hosting two races this year. Tech inspection will take a little longer and the top four engines will be inspected.

Bob

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

We are just getting into Pylon racing here, And the guys are all getting ready for it. We wil not have really heavy rules our first year it will be a learning year. But I raced RC cars for years and I was in the pro-stock class we had to run stock motors only! And I do remember some of the guys running stock with a modified 9 single turn armature. I really do not know how they planned on getting away with it when they would forget and full throttle from time to time. I raced full scale cars and yes allot of cheating went on there as well! I really do not know how they enjoy the trophy they win knowing they cheated I know I could not, But cheating is a big part to many of racing! Those called on it will go elsewhere. But it still has to be an even field and those caught should have to pay for it and be fined in the club! Money talks they do not pay they do not play! Catch them more then once ban them for the racing season! Cheaters is the reason I stopped racing full scale. Its just stopped being fun going to other tracks and hearing the racing cams open up in the pure stock class!

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Same thing with me Hairy.

Bob,
By your comments you are no longer a beginner at this point. Leave the newbies to learn and enjoy on an even playing field. Diversity is fine if everyone understands how to play, beginners don't. C40 is simply a beginner class same as 424.

Go/Nogo gages are a snap to make and have on hand and only take a second to use.

BarryReade

My Feedback: (1)

That is why there are two classes of Club 40.

Sport/Novice and Advanced.

No one I have found wants to run Sport.  They all want to start at Advanced.  Hello!!!  We tried in 09 to run Sport at the Lowe's Series and we had a heck of a time just getting four racers.  I even built a sport plane and a couple of other advanced guys did the same and we still couldn't get any interest in it.  So, if you don't want to start out in Sport/Novice then it isn't going to be as easy in Advanced.

A lot of accomplished 400 series racers have tried Club 40 and sometimes it is the only thing going because the two pole short course fits so many more clubs than the three pole course or the two pole long course.  It is really an interesting group that you see at a Club 40 Advanced race.

JPNYGAARD

My Feedback: (27)

IT'S AMAZING HOW ANY INDIVIDUAL CAN GET ANY SATISFACTION OR SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT OUT OF WINNING A RACE IN WHICH HE HAS CHEATED WITH HIS ENGINE !! I GUESS IT TAKES ALL KINDS.

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Yes to me cheating is stealing! Here why it is to me because the guy that cheats stole the race by cheating and he wins the purse that would not have went to him, Then he stold the money someone that had not cheated would have gotten! They are also liars because when asked if they have any cheater parts they always say no! So a cheater is far worse then just a cheater they are liars and thiefs as well! Someone that I know has been caught cheating was watched in the pits as a thief would have been watched I see no diffrence!

fcomer84

In most peoples minds, it's not cheating until you get caught! It is up to "the officials" to try and keep everything fair and square. In car racing, I never saw anyone object to inspection. They only got bent out of shape when they got caught. Then the excuses started to flow followed by I did not know what I was talking about!!! Funny thing, whatever it was got fixed by the next race!!

mroyer

My Feedback: (2)

It may be helpful if someone assembles data containing the dimensional specifications for the 40 size engines available. If we know bore, stroke, Carb throat diameter and (other?) We could share that information here. Then, anyone armed with an allen wrench and caliper could do tech inspection of any engine. Otherwise, cheaters may find better luck running a Supertigre 46 or some other wolf in sheeps clothing. I'd volunteer, but I'm not sure if I'll have the time. Maybe I should start now?

Mike

fcomer84

Tower Hobby has all the engine specifications.

mroyer

My Feedback: (2)

How's this? It is all that Tower hobbies lists right now.

Make Bore Stroke
Inches mm Inches mm
Thundertiger 40 0.8228 20.9 0.748 19
46 0.858 21.8 0.787 20
Supertigre GS-40 0.846 21.5 0.701 17.8
GS-45 0.86 21.85 0.787 20
GMS 40 20.5 19.6
47 22.4 19.6

squidman

My Feedback: (2)

I'm in favor of a go/no go gauge to speed up the tech inspection. All that would be required is to remove the head bolts. Simple enough !!
If you have to cheat to win, is it really winning? The main reason I race is to have fun, whether I win or lose. Also fueling and placing the
models in a 'ready" station is a good idea. Maybe tech inspection will happen this year.

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Competing is the cake all ready and I love that part, Its all about that and the people that you meet. Winning legal is a little icing on the cake now and then, But not needed to enjoy what you are doing! If you have to win everytime then you are really not enjoying the best part of what you are doing anyway!