Club 40 Rules Enforcement
01-09-2011, 07:58 AM
#76
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: georgetown,
TX
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Mike31, I have dealt with that situation at one of our C40 races with regard to the baffle removed from the muffler. It was during the third round of racing. I DQ’ed the planes and gave the pilots ZERO for the day. End of story. I admit we did not have a good Tech inspection at the start of the day. This will change.
Bob
Bob
01-09-2011, 07:59 AM
#77
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas City,
TX
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: mike31
Ok, let me ask this please,.. should a pilot show up at one of your races in Texas
( or anywhere for that matter) and lets say he's ran in 2 or 3 of the heat races for that day already, then its discovered that he is running the 46 cyl and piston in the 40 size case. What is the next step for the race as well as this ''wonderful'' person who is found out not to be legal?
Comments on my comments are welcome.
Thanks,
John
Coment on your coment... Race goes on with a possible next guy in line who almost qualified to start from the scratch position gets to race. DQ sounds reasonable and maybe a 3 race suspension. That kind of stuff happens all over the place. May also prominately post pictures of this person with the caption below the picture '' Do you know this cheater''? Explain in fine print too. Might as well stop the problem before it gets way out of hand. Life is tough, It's even tougher if you're stupid. I think John Wayne said that. At least I saw it on a poster with the Duke and obama together.
Ok, let me ask this please,.. should a pilot show up at one of your races in Texas
( or anywhere for that matter) and lets say he's ran in 2 or 3 of the heat races for that day already, then its discovered that he is running the 46 cyl and piston in the 40 size case. What is the next step for the race as well as this ''wonderful'' person who is found out not to be legal?
Comments on my comments are welcome.
Thanks,
John
Coment on your coment... Race goes on with a possible next guy in line who almost qualified to start from the scratch position gets to race. DQ sounds reasonable and maybe a 3 race suspension. That kind of stuff happens all over the place. May also prominately post pictures of this person with the caption below the picture '' Do you know this cheater''? Explain in fine print too. Might as well stop the problem before it gets way out of hand. Life is tough, It's even tougher if you're stupid. I think John Wayne said that. At least I saw it on a poster with the Duke and obama together.
CD must furnish 12 guage shotgun and 2 boxes of shells. Upon being caught cheating, the plane will be fueled up and pilot must fly pylons. Beginning in the order of points for each pilot that has flown a heat with him, each pilot gets one shot at knocking his plane out of the air. First pilot that takes his plane down earns 2 bonus points. Offending pilot loses all points and is escorted to gate and asked not to return.
01-09-2011, 08:07 AM
#78
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Displaced Canadian in Central Texas TX
Posts: 2,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Hey Bob, hats off to you and the other CD's for 2011, you will certainly have your hands full trying to come up a solution to this mess, appreciate your efforts trying keep the class fair and even.
01-09-2011, 09:21 AM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis,
TX
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: squidman
I'm in favor of a go/no go gauge to speed up the tech inspection. All that would be required is to remove the head bolts. Simple enough !!
If you have to cheat to win, is it really winning? The main reason I race is to have fun, whether I win or lose. Also fueling and placing the
models in a 'ready'' station is a good idea. Maybe tech inspection will happen this year.
I'm in favor of a go/no go gauge to speed up the tech inspection. All that would be required is to remove the head bolts. Simple enough !!
If you have to cheat to win, is it really winning? The main reason I race is to have fun, whether I win or lose. Also fueling and placing the
models in a 'ready'' station is a good idea. Maybe tech inspection will happen this year.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Just kidding!
01-09-2011, 09:35 AM
#80
Senior Member
My Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: League City,
TX
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
As much as I would like to know who these violaters are who stole from me this past season, It's best I don't know. I'd probably march up to them and give them a swift kcik in the nads and then proceed toBREAK dance on their airplane. If I need to give up participating in a race to help with tech inspections, I can live with that. We have a good group of racers in Texas that get along and have fun. I hope this whole set of circumstances does not change the existing comaraderie we share.
01-09-2011, 09:44 AM
#81
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Where would I find the rules for the club 40 racing! We are starting from scratch here and sounds like it would be a great place to start! If we start where its already being done then those of us that want to go elsewhere can compete with others at events!
01-09-2011, 10:06 AM
#82
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Columbus,
IN
Posts: 703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Reploy is to all:
When you are asking how a person can live with knowing that they got their trophy by cheating, you are not recognizing the fact that that individual is proud of the accomplishment of cheating. I am trying to find my dictionary so I can find the word "psychopath". Just the word that comes to mind.
I had hoped this would not be the case, but it seems that our litle racing game might have about the same life cycle as "county fair dirt track jalopy racing". That was 5 or 6 years until the cheaters caused people not to want to play.
The suggestion to send the cheaters to 424 neglects the fact they are not wecome there. When caught they need to be punished. In order to be punished, they need to be caught. Barry recognized very early on the need for inspections. At this juncture, they are probably necessary in the areas where people have been doing this for 3 years or so. Our inspection sheet needs updating. Send suggestions to me, oldbob, Barry, Bruce Burgess or Terry (Still4given). You bet I am saddened that this is the case, but we surely feared that it would happen.
To encourage new people, after a couple of years, when you have all those who know they wanted to race, establish a viable Club 40 Sport class, It only takes 7 or more. Try to keep that "Bush League" class going. Work hard at it. Then work harder. Some will move up, some will stay the same, some will stop playing.
Ken Erickson
When you are asking how a person can live with knowing that they got their trophy by cheating, you are not recognizing the fact that that individual is proud of the accomplishment of cheating. I am trying to find my dictionary so I can find the word "psychopath". Just the word that comes to mind.
I had hoped this would not be the case, but it seems that our litle racing game might have about the same life cycle as "county fair dirt track jalopy racing". That was 5 or 6 years until the cheaters caused people not to want to play.
The suggestion to send the cheaters to 424 neglects the fact they are not wecome there. When caught they need to be punished. In order to be punished, they need to be caught. Barry recognized very early on the need for inspections. At this juncture, they are probably necessary in the areas where people have been doing this for 3 years or so. Our inspection sheet needs updating. Send suggestions to me, oldbob, Barry, Bruce Burgess or Terry (Still4given). You bet I am saddened that this is the case, but we surely feared that it would happen.
To encourage new people, after a couple of years, when you have all those who know they wanted to race, establish a viable Club 40 Sport class, It only takes 7 or more. Try to keep that "Bush League" class going. Work hard at it. Then work harder. Some will move up, some will stay the same, some will stop playing.
Ken Erickson
01-09-2011, 10:21 AM
#83
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas City,
TX
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Ted,
That's the spirit I want to hear. We have too much fun to let this break up our sport. We just need to proceed equipped to maintain equality with minimal disruption of our events. Pre race Tech needs to be as painless and non intrusive as possible while still being thorough. The post race Tech or Tear Down will not apply to all contestants and should not take that much time provided our tools are proper for the job. I am working on a few things myself to try to aid in speeding up pre and post race tech. While I still believe it was happening we are still reacting to supposition and accusation that has been totally unsubstantiated with any physical evidence. Currently no one has been caught cheating and we may be drawing conclusions in our own minds about pilots that are just not true. Don't let possibilities from the past discourage you from future participation. In my mind I can only hope that certain pilots were doing this. If that is the case, I will have a much better chance of winning in the future. If they were not, they will still beat us like a drum as they did in the past which I have no problem with.
Don
That's the spirit I want to hear. We have too much fun to let this break up our sport. We just need to proceed equipped to maintain equality with minimal disruption of our events. Pre race Tech needs to be as painless and non intrusive as possible while still being thorough. The post race Tech or Tear Down will not apply to all contestants and should not take that much time provided our tools are proper for the job. I am working on a few things myself to try to aid in speeding up pre and post race tech. While I still believe it was happening we are still reacting to supposition and accusation that has been totally unsubstantiated with any physical evidence. Currently no one has been caught cheating and we may be drawing conclusions in our own minds about pilots that are just not true. Don't let possibilities from the past discourage you from future participation. In my mind I can only hope that certain pilots were doing this. If that is the case, I will have a much better chance of winning in the future. If they were not, they will still beat us like a drum as they did in the past which I have no problem with.
Don
01-09-2011, 10:50 AM
#84
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Redmond,
OR
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Hello to all of my fellow racers.
Has cheating with the engine been a major problem in your area? I am not trying to stir the pot but are we making this into a major issue when it may not be?
Bruce
Has cheating with the engine been a major problem in your area? I am not trying to stir the pot but are we making this into a major issue when it may not be?
Bruce
01-09-2011, 11:28 AM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alabaster,
AL
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
I don't think cheated up engines is a major problem. As a general rule, there is usually 1 or maybe 2 at any given time that push the envelope. Check the bore, check the carburetor, watch over fueling, have fun! If someone wants to port & polish let 'em do it. It usually results in no advantage unless they bore the carburetor out. If everyone has the same "air hole" then there is no improvement in performance (think restrictor plate). Putting .46 parts in a .40 crankcase is a different story. Thats why the bore of the cylinder should be checked.
And, you do not have to check everything, all the time. Just knowing you might be inspected is a good deterrent to cheating. Just watch over fueling like a hawk!
And, you do not have to check everything, all the time. Just knowing you might be inspected is a good deterrent to cheating. Just watch over fueling like a hawk!
01-09-2011, 11:29 AM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis,
TX
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: Tx_RcFlyer
As much as I would like to know who these violaters are who stole from me this past season, It's best I don't know. I'd probably march up to them and give them a swift kcik in the nads and then proceed to BREAK dance on their airplane. If I need to give up participating in a race to help with tech inspections, I can live with that. We have a good group of racers in Texas that get along and have fun. I hope this whole set of circumstances does not change the existing comaraderie we share.
As much as I would like to know who these violaters are who stole from me this past season, It's best I don't know. I'd probably march up to them and give them a swift kcik in the nads and then proceed to BREAK dance on their airplane. If I need to give up participating in a race to help with tech inspections, I can live with that. We have a good group of racers in Texas that get along and have fun. I hope this whole set of circumstances does not change the existing comaraderie we share.
01-09-2011, 11:35 AM
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis,
TX
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
I still like the single prop rule. IF everyone has a .40, uses the same prop, same fuel, and there's one that just blow's our socks off, it would be a safe bet to pull the head and take a peek.
01-09-2011, 12:57 PM
#89
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trussville, AL
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: skull1971
I still like the single prop rule. IF everyone has a .40, uses the same prop, same fuel, and there's one that just blow's our socks off, it would be a safe bet to pull the head and take a peek.
I still like the single prop rule. IF everyone has a .40, uses the same prop, same fuel, and there's one that just blow's our socks off, it would be a safe bet to pull the head and take a peek.
At the last race I was in I went head to head with another guy who just blew me out of the water on the straight aways. He was just clearly going faster than me and if he had a stock .40 engine and running the same fuel, the only other thing he could have given him an advantage was maybe using a different prop than me. We use a specific prop for combat planes to help level the playing field, It might be a good idea to specify a prop for pylon racing as well.
01-09-2011, 03:22 PM
#92
Senior Member
My Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: League City,
TX
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: daven
Check the top three planes after every race...
It will police itself.
Check the top three planes after every race...
It will police itself.
01-09-2011, 03:35 PM
#94
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Displaced Canadian in Central Texas TX
Posts: 2,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Ted, well said, you should go into the race knowing that all is equal, not wait till the dust is settled an hour or 2 after the last race has been run, only to find out the top 3 or 5 finishers had cheated, and you missed the cut, you already have packed up and have put 30 miles on the road heading home; or what about one of the cheaters took you out in a bump during one of the priliminary races and he went on to finish in the top 5 or so and all you have to show is a busted plane, when in fact that guy shouldn't have raced at all; if we need to police it better, Pre Race Tech Inspections are probably unavoidable now; I wouldn't wait till the end to catch the cheaters, prevent them from even participating to start with.
01-09-2011, 03:53 PM
#95
Senior Member
My Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: League City,
TX
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Here's my recommendation for anyone caught cheating. We hang their plane from the nearest tree and beat it like a piniata until the fuel tank dislodges from the fuselage.
01-09-2011, 04:28 PM
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alabaster,
AL
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
01-09-2011, 05:02 PM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis,
TX
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: fcomer84
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
01-09-2011, 05:05 PM
#98
Senior Member
My Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: League City,
TX
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: fcomer84
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
No Thanks on no Pre race Inspection. Here's a very plausible scenerio.
Idrive to anevent 4 hours away and have to leave the night before because of the early start time, costing me $$$.Lets say this eventhas no pre race tech inspection. I run all the qualifying races and there is a racer who has a one point lead onme going into theC main. The guy with one point in front ofme advances into the C main andhas an engine that doesn't sound quite right and didn'tduring the practice or qualifying sessions. The suspected cheating racer then wins his way into the B main andinto theA main and wins the $10 trophy and bragging rights. Suspected racer is post raceinspected and his win is taken away. Thispost race verified cheater just stole fromme and other racersthe opportunity to winand I am out about $150+ in travel expenses. All so he can have bragging rights and a $10 Trophy.
Ifsomeone wants towin that bad to change an engine out all in the name of bragging rights, so be it.But quite honestly, I'm not a big individual by any means. But I guarantee, if this scenrio was to happen to me, thatcheater is going to betraveling home with a rekitted plane and if he is lucky, the radio system might be usable in the future, if he is lucky.
This might sound kind of harsh but during the race season, our group has weekly practice sessions and we put in a lot of time, effort and expenseto improve our chances of winning and winning legally. Quite possibly, this is why this whole alleged cheating thing ruffles my feathers to the degree it has.
01-09-2011, 05:21 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis,
TX
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
ORIGINAL: Tx_RcFlyer
No Thanks on no Pre race Inspection. Here's a very plausible scenerio.
I drive to an event 4 hours away and have to leave the night before because of the early start time, costing me $$$. Lets say this event has no pre race tech inspection. I run all the qualifying races and there is a racer who has a one point lead on me going into the C main. The guy with one point in front of me advances into the C main and has an engine that doesn't sound quite right and didn't during the practice or qualifying sessions. The suspected cheating racer then wins his way into the B main and into the A main and wins the $10 trophy and bragging rights. Suspected racer is post race inspected and his win is taken away. This post race verified cheater just stole from me and other racers the opportunity to win and I am out about $150+ in travel expenses. All so he can have bragging rights and a $10 Trophy.
If someone wants to win that bad to change an engine out all in the name of bragging rights, so be it. But quite honestly, I'm not a big individual by any means. But I guarantee, if this scenrio was to happen to me, that cheater is going to be traveling home with a rekitted plane and if he is lucky, the radio system might be usable in the future, if he is lucky.
This might sound kind of harsh but during the race season, our group has weekly practice sessions and we put in a lot of time, effort and expense to improve our chances of winning and winning legally. Quite possibly, this is why this whole alleged cheating thing ruffles my feathers to the degree it has.
ORIGINAL: fcomer84
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
Pre-Race inspection won't work. I can change an engine out in the early practice chaos and no one will notice. Post race the the top four planes, and maybe 1 other plane from random. If you know you get inspected for winning you are less likely to go against the rules. The check with go-no go gauges is indisputable.
You are not going to get hit by a cheater because they have left you far behind!
No Thanks on no Pre race Inspection. Here's a very plausible scenerio.
I drive to an event 4 hours away and have to leave the night before because of the early start time, costing me $$$. Lets say this event has no pre race tech inspection. I run all the qualifying races and there is a racer who has a one point lead on me going into the C main. The guy with one point in front of me advances into the C main and has an engine that doesn't sound quite right and didn't during the practice or qualifying sessions. The suspected cheating racer then wins his way into the B main and into the A main and wins the $10 trophy and bragging rights. Suspected racer is post race inspected and his win is taken away. This post race verified cheater just stole from me and other racers the opportunity to win and I am out about $150+ in travel expenses. All so he can have bragging rights and a $10 Trophy.
If someone wants to win that bad to change an engine out all in the name of bragging rights, so be it. But quite honestly, I'm not a big individual by any means. But I guarantee, if this scenrio was to happen to me, that cheater is going to be traveling home with a rekitted plane and if he is lucky, the radio system might be usable in the future, if he is lucky.
This might sound kind of harsh but during the race season, our group has weekly practice sessions and we put in a lot of time, effort and expense to improve our chances of winning and winning legally. Quite possibly, this is why this whole alleged cheating thing ruffles my feathers to the degree it has.
01-09-2011, 05:30 PM
#100
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waco,
TX
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Club 40 Rules Enforcement
Scully my engines can be checked at any time. If you tach one of mine I'm only turning @ 14,8 to15,5k
.
I would love to have more aggresive tech inspections to keep the field level.
Maybe then I could run as fast as the rest of you, just maybe
.I would love to have more aggresive tech inspections to keep the field level.
Maybe then I could run as fast as the rest of you, just maybe