Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
07-05-2011, 06:03 AM
#1
Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
I found a low cost way of doing lap counting and timing for our races. Accusplit makes a stopwatch (model AX625) that keeps track of laps as well as time with the push of a single button.
I ordered a set of four of these watches from stopwatchcentral.com and the total cost was $75.80. They have afive yearwarrantyand have replaceable batteries and cost only $18.95 each! Free shipping too!
While these are not as fancy as at remote display timing system, they should make the job of keeping timing and lap counts easier.
We will give them a try and our next race in Nashville and see how they work.
Tim
I ordered a set of four of these watches from stopwatchcentral.com and the total cost was $75.80. They have afive yearwarrantyand have replaceable batteries and cost only $18.95 each! Free shipping too!
While these are not as fancy as at remote display timing system, they should make the job of keeping timing and lap counts easier.
We will give them a try and our next race in Nashville and see how they work.
Tim
07-05-2011, 06:24 AM
#2
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
I forgot to mention that the display of this watch has the lap count in the upper left portion of the screen and the total race time next to it. The lower display is for the current lap time.
The left and right buttons are both interchangeable and operate exactly the same way.
Each watch will be labeled according to a lane (Low Red, Low Green........). The timer and or caller depending on how many workers you have will operate the watch like this;
Start horn (or flag), push either right or left button.
At the end of each lap press either button.
At the end of the tenth lap press either button.
The display will show the lap count and total time for that lane on the upper line of the display.
To reset the watch for the next heat, press and hold either button down for two seconds and the display resets. SIMPLE!
Tim
The left and right buttons are both interchangeable and operate exactly the same way.
Each watch will be labeled according to a lane (Low Red, Low Green........). The timer and or caller depending on how many workers you have will operate the watch like this;
Start horn (or flag), push either right or left button.
At the end of each lap press either button.
At the end of the tenth lap press either button.
The display will show the lap count and total time for that lane on the upper line of the display.
To reset the watch for the next heat, press and hold either button down for two seconds and the display resets. SIMPLE!
Tim
07-07-2011, 04:03 AM
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RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Those will be a big improvement over the regular stop watches!!!
The fact that the button is pushed on every lap will help get the end time right.
I still prefer the JudgeTimer program, but am used to hauling around my laptop, inverter and 12-volt car battery. That said, these watches are a real improvement.
Ken Erickson
The fact that the button is pushed on every lap will help get the end time right.
I still prefer the JudgeTimer program, but am used to hauling around my laptop, inverter and 12-volt car battery. That said, these watches are a real improvement.
Ken Erickson
07-07-2011, 05:34 AM
#5
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Terry,
We run our races with a minimum number of workers so the pilot's caller calls out the completed laps to the pilot while simply holding up a finger per lap completed. We will probably go to a single hand to show laps completed by repeating the count on one hand (after five laps are completed, lap six will be a single finger and so on). This should work ok and it has been done by the callers in other races. Face it, if you are five laps behind, you probably have crashed.......
By using a single hand to show laps completed will leave the other hand to operate the stop watch.
Wish us luck when we give this a try at the July 23rd race in Nashville.
Getting people to come out and work the races is getting harder and harder, but the race MUST GO ON!
Tim
We run our races with a minimum number of workers so the pilot's caller calls out the completed laps to the pilot while simply holding up a finger per lap completed. We will probably go to a single hand to show laps completed by repeating the count on one hand (after five laps are completed, lap six will be a single finger and so on). This should work ok and it has been done by the callers in other races. Face it, if you are five laps behind, you probably have crashed.......
By using a single hand to show laps completed will leave the other hand to operate the stop watch.
Wish us luck when we give this a try at the July 23rd race in Nashville.
Getting people to come out and work the races is getting harder and harder, but the race MUST GO ON!
Tim
07-07-2011, 06:39 AM
#6
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Yeah, I am familar with folks holding up a single finger at me. [&o]
Been that way most of my life, now why is that?
Tim,
how many guys you know of from your side of town are headed to Nashville to race ?
Been that way most of my life, now why is that?
Tim,
how many guys you know of from your side of town are headed to Nashville to race ?
ORIGINAL: Tbatt
Terry,
We run our races with a minimum number of workers so the pilot's caller calls out the completed laps to the pilot while simply holding up a finger per lap completed. We will probably go to a single hand to show laps completed by repeating the count on one hand (after five laps are completed, lap six will be a single finger and so on). This should work ok and it has been done by the callers in other races. Face it, if you are five laps behind, you probably have crashed.......
By using a single hand to show laps completed will leave the other hand to operate the stop watch.
Wish us luck when we give this a try at the July 23rd race in Nashville.
Getting people to come out and work the races is getting harder and harder, but the race MUST GO ON!
Tim
Terry,
We run our races with a minimum number of workers so the pilot's caller calls out the completed laps to the pilot while simply holding up a finger per lap completed. We will probably go to a single hand to show laps completed by repeating the count on one hand (after five laps are completed, lap six will be a single finger and so on). This should work ok and it has been done by the callers in other races. Face it, if you are five laps behind, you probably have crashed.......
By using a single hand to show laps completed will leave the other hand to operate the stop watch.
Wish us luck when we give this a try at the July 23rd race in Nashville.
Getting people to come out and work the races is getting harder and harder, but the race MUST GO ON!
Tim
07-25-2011, 04:57 AM
#10
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
We used the watches for the first time on Saturday at the Nashville race and they worked like a charm!
All very positive comments about how easy they are to use and how much better sorting out the results in close racing.
Before the race, I placed a small patch of the colored labels that we use for airplane identification at the bottom of the watch display and wrote the word high or low so that each watch was asigned a lane. The caller then made sure that the watch label matched the plane ID. The system worked better than I had hoped for!
During two heat races that were way to close to call, we had errors of two seconds between the watches that should have been in the hundredths of a second. After the race all watches were checked and they were within a couple of hundredths of a secnd of each other and that amount of error was most likely just my reflexes. So, even with the watches, timing errors can occur because of operator error. We tried to get everyone to use them the same way but either reaction times were way off or the watches were just not being started at the correct time. I think that if we had a dedicated group of lap counter / timers, they would become more consistant and the times would be more correct. The human factor will always remain wether you are using an $19 stopwatch or a $600 timing system. Someone eventually has to push a button. Starting all of the watches can be done electronically but the stopping will have to be done witha human operator, at least until I get a GPS based laser tracking finish order device designed and built...........
Tim
All very positive comments about how easy they are to use and how much better sorting out the results in close racing.
Before the race, I placed a small patch of the colored labels that we use for airplane identification at the bottom of the watch display and wrote the word high or low so that each watch was asigned a lane. The caller then made sure that the watch label matched the plane ID. The system worked better than I had hoped for!
During two heat races that were way to close to call, we had errors of two seconds between the watches that should have been in the hundredths of a second. After the race all watches were checked and they were within a couple of hundredths of a secnd of each other and that amount of error was most likely just my reflexes. So, even with the watches, timing errors can occur because of operator error. We tried to get everyone to use them the same way but either reaction times were way off or the watches were just not being started at the correct time. I think that if we had a dedicated group of lap counter / timers, they would become more consistant and the times would be more correct. The human factor will always remain wether you are using an $19 stopwatch or a $600 timing system. Someone eventually has to push a button. Starting all of the watches can be done electronically but the stopping will have to be done witha human operator, at least until I get a GPS based laser tracking finish order device designed and built...........
Tim
07-25-2011, 06:28 AM
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RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Well, here I am again, saying that the JudgeTimer program and a slightly modified Logitech PC Game Controller solves those "human error" problems. All the Lap Timing folks need to do is push the buttin on the hand-held signalling device when the airplane crosses center going in the proper direction (I have heard of some who turn right).
The program is a free download from www.nmpra.org. You can test it using your mouse device to see how it works before modifying a Logitech PC Game Controller. Somewhere on this forum there is a crude build that I posted a while ago.
Perhaps even that won't solve all the Human Error problems, but it sure helped us when I was in Texas. Here in Indiana, we still do not have enough people to try a stop watch. Come to think of it, I wouldn't use them even if we did.
Tim's watches are so very much better than the regular ones. With practice, that system will probably work. My experience causes me to go with the JudgeTimer program on a laptop.
Ken Erickson
The program is a free download from www.nmpra.org. You can test it using your mouse device to see how it works before modifying a Logitech PC Game Controller. Somewhere on this forum there is a crude build that I posted a while ago.
Perhaps even that won't solve all the Human Error problems, but it sure helped us when I was in Texas. Here in Indiana, we still do not have enough people to try a stop watch. Come to think of it, I wouldn't use them even if we did.
Tim's watches are so very much better than the regular ones. With practice, that system will probably work. My experience causes me to go with the JudgeTimer program on a laptop.
Ken Erickson
07-25-2011, 06:52 AM
#12
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Ken,
I think Tim has hit a home run Saturday with his new stopwatches. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I was in attendance at the Nashville race Saturday and even though I was one of the guys "who got caught up in the moment" and forgot to hit the button one lap being a spotter for my buddy Dave Phillips, Dave was ahead of everyone in that particular heat race so there was no objections or questions about my error on the stopwatch.
I was so excited watching Dave, aka D2 go around the poles and I was grabbing on his shoulders spotting for him [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]and I simply forgot to click the button for him.....DANG this Club40 racing is exciting!!!!!!!
Ken, now we just need to get you down here for a race before the season is out.... a weekend road trip maybe????
I think Tim has hit a home run Saturday with his new stopwatches. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I was in attendance at the Nashville race Saturday and even though I was one of the guys "who got caught up in the moment" and forgot to hit the button one lap being a spotter for my buddy Dave Phillips, Dave was ahead of everyone in that particular heat race so there was no objections or questions about my error on the stopwatch.
I was so excited watching Dave, aka D2 go around the poles and I was grabbing on his shoulders spotting for him [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]and I simply forgot to click the button for him.....DANG this Club40 racing is exciting!!!!!!!
Ken, now we just need to get you down here for a race before the season is out.... a weekend road trip maybe????
07-25-2011, 11:12 AM
#13
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Ken, our main problem was with the button pushers. No software or hardware will fix that problem.
Back when we were heavily involved with competition fun fly, we used three stopwatches per contestant. We would throw out the high and low time and keep the middle time. Whenever we only had two times we averaged them. Even with three people doing the timing we would have missed times due to someone not pushing the buttons correctly. They would forget to reset the watch or push the wrong button or just weird out.
I do think that once we get more time with the process we will get more bugs worked out. Until then........
Tim
Back when we were heavily involved with competition fun fly, we used three stopwatches per contestant. We would throw out the high and low time and keep the middle time. Whenever we only had two times we averaged them. Even with three people doing the timing we would have missed times due to someone not pushing the buttons correctly. They would forget to reset the watch or push the wrong button or just weird out.
I do think that once we get more time with the process we will get more bugs worked out. Until then........
Tim
07-25-2011, 03:46 PM
#14
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RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Tim, The watches work great, It's the guy pushing the button that has the problem !! Anyway we had a great time and can't wait to do er again !!
Dave P........
Dave P........
07-27-2011, 01:17 AM
#15
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Forget the times and don't record them at all. Put the stopwatches back in the box. We haven't used stop watches for over three seasons flying AMA 424, 428, and SkyRaiders. They were not missed.
We had a good starter who could count laps of the leader plane. Most callers could either keep track of their own lap numbers, and several of us flyers can keep track too! This is not the Nats so one caller could bellow out what lap he was on and who was ahead of him or behind him. After landing, we quickly reviewed everyone's views, and the CD would identify 1st, 2nd, etc. Rarely we had a problem. It was much easier than you would expect.
We don't use computers to generated a matrix - with a low turn out I can gin one up in less than 5 minutes. We don't put colorful stickers on the wings and we don't need a and b matrix.
And when we have a really low turn out of support people, we simply put one judge down at Pylon #1 with a radio, if we can find one, and pen and paper. His job is to id the planes and take notes. Watch the entire race and watch each plane turn around pylon #1. He does not signal the pilots to turn - too much work load for one person. But this one person can post cuts for all planes. If this person is overworked in this role, we have simply asked them to write down which planes (color descriptions) cut and show this list to the CD after the planes land and the pilots gather around. The CD would review the cuts and figure out who finished where.
Not ideal, but a way to make every pilot feel that they are in a real pylon race.
Kur-Duane Bozagall
We had a good starter who could count laps of the leader plane. Most callers could either keep track of their own lap numbers, and several of us flyers can keep track too! This is not the Nats so one caller could bellow out what lap he was on and who was ahead of him or behind him. After landing, we quickly reviewed everyone's views, and the CD would identify 1st, 2nd, etc. Rarely we had a problem. It was much easier than you would expect.
We don't use computers to generated a matrix - with a low turn out I can gin one up in less than 5 minutes. We don't put colorful stickers on the wings and we don't need a and b matrix.
And when we have a really low turn out of support people, we simply put one judge down at Pylon #1 with a radio, if we can find one, and pen and paper. His job is to id the planes and take notes. Watch the entire race and watch each plane turn around pylon #1. He does not signal the pilots to turn - too much work load for one person. But this one person can post cuts for all planes. If this person is overworked in this role, we have simply asked them to write down which planes (color descriptions) cut and show this list to the CD after the planes land and the pilots gather around. The CD would review the cuts and figure out who finished where.
Not ideal, but a way to make every pilot feel that they are in a real pylon race.
Kur-Duane Bozagall
07-27-2011, 05:57 AM
#16
RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Bozarth,
We started out just as you described and it worked well until the turn out got too large to run things "simple". We were having close to 30 entries per race. Airplane ID got to be a nightmare and we had to go to the stickers just to keep our santity. Every effort was made to keep the number of workers to a minimum and it almost worked. Because of heat result conflicts we started losing people. We had to get more organized.
We too have a great caller / starter that can keep up with the close racing we have. At the RCRC race, she wasn't there and it took three of us taking turns to try and do her job. It was almost a disaster!!!!
Kim, we miss you!!!!!!! Please come back!!!!
For a small turn out (less than 10) you can keep the event very simple and just have fun. We were looking at 40+ entries for this season and we had to do something better than what we were doing.
Unfortunately, due to the down turn in the economy, high gas prices and our mistakes we made last year, we are not getting the turn out that we had but we are still working very hard to fix our problems we had. The Alabama and Tennessee guys are the best! We work well together and have formed a close association that works well together to make this low cost racing as fun as possible.
Thanks for your input.
Tim
We started out just as you described and it worked well until the turn out got too large to run things "simple". We were having close to 30 entries per race. Airplane ID got to be a nightmare and we had to go to the stickers just to keep our santity. Every effort was made to keep the number of workers to a minimum and it almost worked. Because of heat result conflicts we started losing people. We had to get more organized.
We too have a great caller / starter that can keep up with the close racing we have. At the RCRC race, she wasn't there and it took three of us taking turns to try and do her job. It was almost a disaster!!!!
Kim, we miss you!!!!!!! Please come back!!!!
For a small turn out (less than 10) you can keep the event very simple and just have fun. We were looking at 40+ entries for this season and we had to do something better than what we were doing.
Unfortunately, due to the down turn in the economy, high gas prices and our mistakes we made last year, we are not getting the turn out that we had but we are still working very hard to fix our problems we had. The Alabama and Tennessee guys are the best! We work well together and have formed a close association that works well together to make this low cost racing as fun as possible.
Thanks for your input.
Tim
07-27-2011, 07:08 AM
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RE: Low Cost Lap counter and timer!
Guys,
Burn those last two post in your minds!!! Memorize them!!! One from a good guy long time expert and one from a good guy becoming an expert.
If someone posted before I do, It is Bozarth and Tbatt. Trying to avoid confusion.
There is a huge difference in being in phase one and phase three.
I consider it essential to racing to have a person at each pylon to call in cuts. We use Walkie-talkies. Our third race here, we had five pilots. We went for three-plane heats. We used the "Rolling Matrix", 123,451,234,512,345. The two other pilots and a volunteer (we were lucky enough to have one) stood behind the ones racing, with W-Ts to know about cuts, and yelled out the lap count, but one of them was the starter. A flag is a good thing. Then we write down the places and scores on paper.
That same primative system will be used here, until we have enough people to have Lap Counters sitting in chairs, not so influenced by the rush of being next to, perhaps calling for, the pilots. Usually, at that phase, we use the pilots from the previous heat as the lap counters. Probably use a variation of Mike Helsel's spreadsheets to keep score and have printed heat sheets. Could use a dry-erase board for effect. Could use paper.
In phase three, more racers, (perhaps three or four times the number of planes in a heat) I use JudgeTimer, for lap counting and Paul Herman's NMPRA program for keeping score and printing out the racers in order of points or times. Yes, it will generate a matrix as well. AMA number, name and channel into the program. Everything else on file cards. Prints out Heat Sheets, Heat Cards and Pilot Cards. Pilots usually write their heats on the wing tags.
Burn those last two post in your minds!!! Memorize them!!! One from a good guy long time expert and one from a good guy becoming an expert.
If someone posted before I do, It is Bozarth and Tbatt. Trying to avoid confusion.
There is a huge difference in being in phase one and phase three.
I consider it essential to racing to have a person at each pylon to call in cuts. We use Walkie-talkies. Our third race here, we had five pilots. We went for three-plane heats. We used the "Rolling Matrix", 123,451,234,512,345. The two other pilots and a volunteer (we were lucky enough to have one) stood behind the ones racing, with W-Ts to know about cuts, and yelled out the lap count, but one of them was the starter. A flag is a good thing. Then we write down the places and scores on paper.
That same primative system will be used here, until we have enough people to have Lap Counters sitting in chairs, not so influenced by the rush of being next to, perhaps calling for, the pilots. Usually, at that phase, we use the pilots from the previous heat as the lap counters. Probably use a variation of Mike Helsel's spreadsheets to keep score and have printed heat sheets. Could use a dry-erase board for effect. Could use paper.
In phase three, more racers, (perhaps three or four times the number of planes in a heat) I use JudgeTimer, for lap counting and Paul Herman's NMPRA program for keeping score and printing out the racers in order of points or times. Yes, it will generate a matrix as well. AMA number, name and channel into the program. Everything else on file cards. Prints out Heat Sheets, Heat Cards and Pilot Cards. Pilots usually write their heats on the wing tags.
