GerKonig

This is just attacking ARFs, Young People and 3D.(Trolling much lately?)

Yes, this old timer needs a new hobby...

Gerry

tryingagain

For me 3D flying is like opera. While I admire the talent and gifting it takes to perform it well, that does not mean I have to like it.
As for ARFs I do not agree they have made the hobby better. They have only made the hobby different. Many of us who started in the age of, if you don't build you don't fly, can have our judgement coloured by the seeming ease of getting into the air now. So what. There is nothing wrong with just wanting to fly. ARFs have opened the door for those with eyes that don't focus well up close any more. For those whose hands do not have the dexterity they once did and a host of other issues that made building from kits or plans difficult or impossible. ARFs, in my opinion have also been responsible for keeping equipment costs down. I remember the days of paying 350+ dollars for a basic 5 channel radio. However with all that said, there has been a down side. It has created a small group of people (young and old) who have no respect for what they are flying and are blissfully unaware of the hazards. I came across 3 young men flying (or at least attempting to) a 46 sized ARF trainer in a school soccer field. Houses on three sides and the school on the other. That would have been bad enough but at the end of the soccer field was a play structure with all kinds of little kids on it. This was all compounded by the group of 10 or so pre teens standing around the guys because the noise had attracted them. I tried to tell him he needed a lot more room but to no avail. I hate to sound mean but it was a blessing in disguise when in attempting to crank the bird back around to the field after take off the pilot put the plane through the chain link backstop of the neighboring baseball diamond at full throttle. Like flour through a seive. The biggest piece was about 6 inches of empinage that did not quite make it through the fence. The impact even broke the muffler and tore off the carbuerator smashing the front housing. Luckily no one was hurt. I offered the pilot our club website, tried hard not to say I told you so, and left.
I am not holding ARFs responsible for this but they have made it easier. Maybe the other thing missing now is along with every trainer sold 20 years ago came a card with the contact number for the local club and advice from the shop to get involved with an instructor.

Wow! Now it sounds like I am whining.

Cheers

Gord

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

Oh woe is me, sniffle, whine, *****, complain. How about going to another forum like those opposed to tennis shoe reform? Hate the weather, or is it whether you are going to remain in the sport? Do us all a favor and take up basket knitting.

ARF is alive and well. It is as much part of r/c as is building. If you cannot differentiate the two, then see a shrink.

Dick

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

I've noticed that with out the barrier to entry that building used to present, many folks are in the hobby that wouldn't have been in the past. Unfortunately, without some greater investment in time and commitment that building used to represent, many of our new "hobbyist" crash 5 to 10 ARF's, deem this a stupid hobby, and stop coming out. In the past, the 3 or 4 month building process was something of a test of will (as well as skill) and filtered most of the "wannabees" out before they got to the field.

For the above reasons, I don't buddy box ARF's any more. I've spent too many 100 deg Mississippi days in the sun with a dude that got a tax refund check and bought an ARF Alpha trainer. We seem 'em for about a year and 5 ARF's and they're gone leaving me feeling very used and sunburned by someone that probably shouldn't have been at the field and in the hobby in the first place.

I would NEVER say ARF's have ruined the hobby for me but I will admit that it has changed the way I hobby.

Finally, I know I'm speaking in broad generalities. There are still many wonderful people joining this hobby every day that will be life long skilled modelers. I will help them to the limits of my abilities.

Cheers,

Bill

jessiej

ARFs didn't ruin the hobby, activity, or whatever one wishes to call it. ARFs did change the activity. For better or worse depends on the point of view.

I always enjoyed looking at the product of another modeler's workmanship. I wouldn't cross the street to see an ARF. Purely Personal taste.

I have always thought of building as a hobby, flying as an activity. I consider fishing an activity, hand tying trout flies a hobby. I consider a very over powered bass boat I once had an exercise in madness. All related to fish as Arfs and scratch builts are to flying, but totally different too.

Are Builders deserving of more or less respect than ARFers? If both fly with equal grace, finesse, and precision, they are due equal respect as fliers. The builder has obviously demonstrated a greater number of skills related to the end performance.

jess

chase67

My Feedback: (35)

As one who is a builder and a hobbystore owner let me share one thing with you.....when the youngsters crash their ARF's they look for the reset button....they neither have the patience or the skill to repair....not true of all of course but most.

GerKonig

Very creative the covering job. About a week ago somebody mentioned that he was going to cover a sing 1/4 scale cub wit transparent yellow so his friends could see the woodwork underneath. I thought that it was decidedly not scale, but a lot of fun to see.

As a builder, I can tell you the big downside (dark side of ARFS). I used to build 2/3 models every year. When I was tired, i would sell the model, and make good money off it. It allowed me to build another one... Now, things have changed with the ARFs in the market:-)

Gerry

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Brilliantly said but I wouldn't limit it to youngsters. While adults might not look for the reset button, adults often do the equivalent and look for another ARF they don't care about.


Hmmm... Maybe. But - Would you further say that the simulator pilot demonstrating "equal grace, finesse, and precision" is due equal respect as the ARF pilot? My experience (and opinion) would be NO. Without the time, monetary and emotional investment of a "real" airplane, everyone is a god on the simulator.

Bill

DustBen

My Feedback: (3)

I enjoy creating, building, and finishing as much as flying.
It's MY hobby and nobody dictates how I do it.

Having said that... I enjoy that I can buy an ARF, use it and abuse it without emotional investment nor time expenditure. I tend to buy the "whole hog" deals... get equipment plus a  plane with the intent of using it all on my next project.

To the original post... it's sad to see you let others ruin your life when you have the complete option of managing your affairs. Sucks to see a lack of personal responsibility and autonomy. You have free will and the choice to utilize it... until you blame others for your failure to exercise such freedoms.

As I type this, I am awaiting a laminated chunk of aluminum and plywood to cure. From that, I am making a rib template to build an improvement on a long standing design. Whether it flies as well as I want remains to be seen (Actually, the rib template resembles Al Rabe's Nats winning, Sea Fury CL Stunt champion).

Part of the trend I see in society is the misuse of two words; "can't" and "won't".
I can, and I will... live life on my own terms and RC models are a fun outlet to do so!

brycesteenburg

My Feedback: (40)

To the OP. Just a victim of your own shortcomings and don't like it. Trolling for others just like you to join in your pity party to make you feel better. Now you know how others see you too. Put your big boy pants on and quit sniveling.

Jetdktr

My Feedback: (21)

As 378 said in post #18- quote: "....They let people get into the air quickly and easily....." That is very true, but it has its drawbacks too. The problem is that when they have a crash or hard landing, the people dont know how to repair it. They buy another and so on, get frustrated due to cost, and leave the hobby.While working P/T in the LHS ,I would tell people getting into the hobby, get an ARF combo, get with an instructor at the local club , get some flight time, and build your second airplane over the winter

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Dam! That was harsh! Really? Do you speak to all your acquaintances that way? Or has the ARF/cyber-world brought a "new breed" of modeler to the table?

wjvail

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks! I love seeing my toys overhead with the sky coming through. You've seen a 100 ARF LT-40 but this one is hand/kit built and one of a kind .

Bill

blhollo2

My Feedback: (278)

welcome to the 21 century.

brycesteenburg

My Feedback: (40)

Calls 'em as I see's 'em! Ya your right it's the ARF and cyber world that has done this.

DustBen

My Feedback: (3)

What you call "harsh", most adults call "intolerance" for drama.

But, if you choose to support a sniveling whiney rant, it's your free choice to do so.

jessiej

Dam! That was harsh! Really? Do you speak to all your acquaintances that way? Or has the ARF/cyber-world brought a ''new breed'' of modeler to the table?
[/quote]

Many people seem to speak differently when they have no fear of a punch in the nose. Says much for the character and courage of current society.

jess

Antares100

My Feedback: (12)

    Part of the fun of the hobby for me is the building. Even if the plane isn't "perfect", it is something I built. I "crafted" the plane (with help from the kit manufacturer) and part of my pleasure is to see something of mine flying. Yes I have an ARF glider, but that was purchased last year to get me back in the air after 20+ years of inactivity (can I really be that old????). The ARF works for the reason it was purchased... to get me out and flying until I finish my present kit. I get much more satisfaction putting in the air something I built. KEEP TRYING!! It IS worth it!!

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Guys Guys take it easy now. I dont know why this one started this thread , to state how better arfs are or to let us know he has gotten lazy when it comes to building. He might just be trying to open up a can of worms between builders and arf guys,here is how i see it. I have been building and flying for 35 years ,why building ? Because back then there were no decent arfs and you built a plane or you had nothing to fly. Move ahead 30 years ,yea they make some decent arfs now but for every decent on there are 20 other arfs that suck and get the public to buy it then complain. I go to water funflys all summer and i see 20 or 30 arf cubs on floats and maybe some arf foamys . I like flying planes that are differant and no one else will have so i scratch build my own. I do fly a couple arfs during the week but i do this to help me save my good scratch built ones,i figure they are exspendable and would not hurt me to loose a couple goofing around . I dont know what this thread is realy about yet but i think it will drag on further and the arguing will begin.

brycesteenburg

My Feedback: (40)

Someone's just upset because the manuf. of ARF's and flying skill has progressed and that someone has not. Getting left behind or in denial for getting passed up makes some people feel inferior and victimized. That is that someone's personal issue to work out. Deal with it, mature and be happy! Or take the black cloud and find a new endevour. Is this that hard to figure out?

straitnickel

take some pride in what you do dirtybird. i wish i could build from scratch myself but i'll never get there.

Extra Aviator

Sounds like to your having a personal problem with your building and flying skills, or perhaps the lack of it? So let me make sure i am understanding you correctly. OK. Because someone else can build a better plane than you, your saying you cant have fun building yours anymore??? And because kids and others fly 3D at some or all the events you go to, you cannot enjoy flying anymore?? Im sorry but it sounds like your having a poor me moment. Perhaps your attitude is age appropriate, i dont know, i dont know how old you are, but you sound really really old, like F.O.G. old. Perhaps the clubs in your area just suck and you are right. Or perhaps you felt the need to put up a derogatory to rc flying poor old me thread because your bitter that the RC industry went in the direction it did. But if your upset that you cant show off your nice planes that you built, that no one else really cares about, that you really built for your own personally satisfaction, then who cares what other poeple think about it??? Dont give up. Dont suck the sack. Dont be a megasuarass. And definatly dont be intimidated by kids or anyone flying 3D. Have fun, be happy!!!! Do your thing. It has nothing to do with what others are doing. Real builders dont and shoudn't have a problem with 3D flying at events or arfs made in china. Sounds like you should look into acquiring a jig!!

DustBen

My Feedback: (3)

Why will you never get "there" ?
What limits your ability and potential?

Try some simple scratching. Take an existing wing and tail group... measure how far behind the wing it was on the previous rendition, then extend it... then build the nose a tad longer and see how the model behaves compared to the original incarnation. (Basic fuselages are essentially shoeboxes. They're not that difficult to cobble up. Or, just build on a boom and learn that method).

Build a copy of a wing you have but increase the aileron proportion...
Build a horizontal stabilizer just like one you have except make it an airfoil shape and see how it affects the pitch moment.

Little by little, you learn, develope a knowledge base, and can begin creating your own "look" and design planes.

Extra Aviator

Oh one more thing. ARF's are not built that well. They are not straight or perfect by any means, so you could easily build a plane just as nice, good, straight, or better. If you know what your doing. I assume you do.

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

ARFs brought me back into the hobby. Within a few months I have a whole room full with nicely looking airplanes despite having little time.
But you can still scratch build your planes if you want to. I think this thread wasn't meant to serious.
With the winter here there will be no flying and I will work on a ME 109 kit. I like to build, but in the summer I rather be at the field and when I crash, I just get an ARF and be back flying in no time.
There is a time and place for everything and there is nothing wrong with a good quality ARF. Also I appreciate the time and workmanship put in to a scratch build plane or kit.