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Standing position for take off

Old 04-04-2013, 01:24 AM
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Conrod
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Default Standing position for take off

Are pilots allowed to stand on the runway behind their plane for take off in your club.
Our club allows this, I myself think the practice is dangerous what do others think?
Old 04-04-2013, 01:54 AM
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bogbeagle
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Do whatever suits you.
Old 04-04-2013, 05:48 AM
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outdoorhunting
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Sounds kind of unsafe ! It's better than standing in front of the plane. I guess whatever floats your boat. My only question woiuld be, what other unsafe prctices are allowed in the club ? I would think the pilot that must do that couldn't be a very experienced one !!! After rereading what I've just put down, that would be an EXTREMELY unsafe practice & NOT BEALLOWED under ANY circumstance. Think about it: you get your plane in the air; now you have to get back to the flight line, you either TAKEYOUREYES off the plane to look where your going OR you walk BLINDLYto where you THINKthe flight line is !!!Does THATSOUNDSAFE TOYOU???? Oh yea, another small detail. what if there are other planes in the air??
Old 04-04-2013, 08:02 AM
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jester_s1
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Dumb. If can't handle a takeoff from the flightline you shouldn't be flying.
Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

It's only done for larger planes on their maiden flights where I fly. It's easier to react and faster to correct when standing behind rather than on the side. As soon as it's up and trimmed they move behind the fence.
Day-day takeoffs are behind the fence.
Old 04-04-2013, 12:57 PM
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SharpProp
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I wouldn't create a rule saying you couldn't stand behind the plane on takeoff, but if you can't takeoff from the flight line, how can you possibly land from the flight line. And walking back to the flight line could be problematic while you are flying. I would strongly encourage people to do it the right way, but if it helps shake some nerves on a maiden flight I guess I could understand that.
Old 04-04-2013, 01:35 PM
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DGrant
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Standing behind the plane when taking off is a definate crutch. Not condusive to learning at all. If someone is into crutches..so be it.. I don't think its a safe practice, and probably wouldn't go over well at my club.. and wouldn't go over at all on a busy Saturday.. The only time someone enters the runway is to retrieve a plane(for whatever reason)..and then its loudly announced several times "ON THE RUNWAY!!"..

If the person is that challenged to take-off that they have to stand behind it to keep orientation.. either the plane they're flying is beyond thier skills.. or most likely they need some more practice and instruction... as really there is no reason to have to stand behind the plane. None.

It takes time to develop skills of orientation.. some take more time then others.. some never get it.. Standing behind the plane does nothing for developing any skill.. other then from that perspective.. Problem is the plane, being a moving object, the perspective is always changing.

Dangerous? ... yes.. Necessary? apparently for some that are challenged.. but No. It wouldn't happen at our club.
Old 04-04-2013, 02:18 PM
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Rodney
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Absolutely no harm in standing behind an aircraft on take off as long as every one else involved is aware of it and there are no safety problems. On a new plane (maiden flight) it is often easier to handle that first take off when standing behind the plane, also the safest way. Of course, when others are flying and the field busy, this would not be a recommended procedure.
Old 04-04-2013, 03:29 PM
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Chad Veich
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Watch a few YouTube videos of model events overseas and you will quickly find this to be a very common practice outside the USA. As noted by Rodney it does not have to be an unsafe practice if the rules are designed to account for it. WhileI don't do it, and am not particularly in favor of it, I can see where it may actually be safer in some instances, such as test flights, where it is easier for the pilot to keep the airplane going down the runway instead of into the pit area.
Old 04-04-2013, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

As the Club Safety Officer, Idon't see a problem with it. I preach " Common sense". Usually when someone is conducting their maiden flight, everyone else stands down and watches. Newbys usually stand on the run way to launch, but they have an instructor with them to guide them back to the pilot box.

Even I sometimes stand on the edge of the runway to take off, and it's not hard to walk back to the pilot box because it's only a few feet away. But I must say, The members of our club are very courteous and freindly. We usually have no more than 3 planes in the air at one time and eveyone waits their turn. If you want to take a flight, you place your plane on the taxi strip which everyone accepts as you're next. Sometimes there may be two or three planes on the taxi strip waiting their turn. Pretty cool.

There are always those that want to write volumes of rules and restrict the personal freedom of others. Usually in the name of safety (national security). If more people used "Common Sense" there would less need for all the rules that can stifle the enjoyment of the hobby.

Frank
Old 04-04-2013, 04:57 PM
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Axel S
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I agree totally with what you say. If everyone had common sense, there would be so much less frustration and the need for certain rules. It's just that so many people now in general have little regard for others. Thankfully most members in our hobby use courtesy and communicate their intentions at the field. It's the only place that you don't see the texting disease and hypnotized walkers.
Old 04-04-2013, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

The act of having to stand behind the plane to take it off is not, in and of itself, unsafe. BUT...common sense says that if said pilot NEEDS to do this to take off, he is an inherently unsafe pilot, who is probably NOT able to control his plane at ALL times. If he can't demonstrate the ability to take off from behind the dead line and in an approved pilot station, he should NOT have solo flight priviledges.

Regards,

Astrohog
Old 04-04-2013, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

In my club standing behind the plane is standard procedure on test flights,maidens ,etc.
If anyone else is flying another plane. Then a spotter helps the pilot on the runway back behind the flight line .. I know that might sound strange, but it is nice having someone watch for places you could trip as you slowly back up , while flying. We keep some deep unmowed grass in front of the fence, and between the taxiways.. I have seen it work well on limiting damage on a bobbled landing..

However when nobody else is at the field, its less structured ! I am sure !!!!
Old 04-04-2013, 09:02 PM
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ira d
 
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I sometime will take ofthis way but only if no other planes are flying at that time.
Old 04-04-2013, 10:16 PM
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ZAGNUT
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

only thing close to a club field i've ever flown at was the old mile square park field. total free for all with no way to communicate with the countless other flyers in the air....you could get killed wandering out on the runway during a busy day. so if you wanted to stand behind the plane on take off you just took off across the runway of course there were numerous ground collisions because of that.
Old 04-04-2013, 10:43 PM
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gene737
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

If you have to stand in back of your aircraft to effect a take-off......you probably don't need to be flying it.
Old 04-04-2013, 11:20 PM
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bogbeagle
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

RCU ... it's like a microcosm of general politics.

"I know best and I'm going to force you to do things my way."
Old 04-05-2013, 02:27 AM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

As an instructor teaching primary pilots, or when a student is switching from tricycle gear to a tail dragger, especially on their first take off ever on the plane or their first experience of take off, I have the student, on a buddy box, stand behind the plane for take off, once airbourne, I take the controls to safely walk to the flight station, then let the student fly. It helps, because prior to this point, they aren't used to using the rudder very much and it helps aid that transition period. I have found that the student has less trouble with left and right at that point. I will not solo them prior to being able to take off and land from the flight station. I want to also say, that when we do this, we are the only one's on the flight line, and have told anyone else that is getting ready to fly, what we are doing, so they give us a little space. I have found that the other pilots will give a little leeway on this procedure, for the beginning students.
But, for everyday flying, and a guy who has soloed, I would say, if he is still doing this, that student needs to go back on the buddy box for additional training. Everyone should be able to safely fly from the flight stations.
Old 04-05-2013, 04:38 AM
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

On some fields maiden flights are performed only with no other aircraft in the air.  This is probably the only time it would be safe to stand in the center of the runway
Old 04-05-2013, 05:47 AM
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astrohog
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I find it odd that the debate here seems to be whether the act of standing at the end of the runway behind the plane during take-off is "safe" or not.

As I mentioned earlier (and a couple others have alluded to), the REAL safety issue is WHY does that pilot have to do that? People have stated, "It makes it easier". When did EASIER become "better" or "safer"? I see this trend creeping into every aspect of our society today and I find it disturbing and alarming!

With just about anything that each of us are free to choose to do, there comes a responsibility to act responsibly in order to assure that nobody else is potentially affected or harmed. In order to assure our continued freedoms, it is each of our responsibilities to act accordingly. In this instance, it is NOT fair or safe to the other flyers to "bend" the normal procedures and rules to allow one person a crutch to fly his plane because it is "easier". PERIOD! That pilot needs further training and has not EARNED the right to fly that particular plane until he can do so without special considerations.

If I were to witness such behavior at my field, I would not feel that the pilot had reasonable and adequate control of any of his planes at any time, and would simply pack my things and head home. Hardly fair to me, no?

Basically, that pilot is saying, I REALLY WANT to fly my latest, whiz-bang aircraft, but I do not posess the skills, so I will take a shortcut and do it the "easy" way. It's like the person who repeatedly fails their drivers' test, but decides it's okay to drive since they happen to have a car!

THIS IS NOT RIGHT OR FAIR TO THE REST OF THE CLUB MEMBERS....PERIOD!

Regards,

Astrohog
Old 04-05-2013, 06:14 AM
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flyinwalenda
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Arguing the minutiae.
I believe most agree that someone who does this day-day with their daily plane is using it as a crutch and developing bad habits.
If using common sense and common courtesy it shouldn't be an issue for the newb on their first takeoffs or for those with a maiden flight of an airframe type they never flew before. Some will agree it's safer to stand behind a plane when you don't know how it will react on the ground or as it leaves the ground so the pilot can react quicker to keep the plane straight and away from the flight line, etc... Once in the air they move behind the fence.
Again it's not an issue where I fly as long as common sense and courtesy reign supreme.
Old 04-05-2013, 06:41 AM
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astrohog
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda
If using common sense and common courtesy it shouldn't be an issue for the newb on their first takeoffs or for those with a maiden flight of an airframe type they never flew before. Some will agree it's safer to stand behind a plane when you don't know how it will react on the ground or as it leaves the ground so the pilot can react quicker to keep the plane straight and away from the flight line, etc...
Safer than what? Certainly NOT safer than NOT flying until you ARE competent! THAT is what common sense and courtesy would say!

Would it be too much to ask said pilot to hook up to a buddy box with an experienced pilot in order to accommodate the safety of everybody else at the field? COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY SAYS, "NO!"

Regards,

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 06:42 AM
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ZAGNUT
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: astrohog

I find it odd that the debate here seems to be whether the act of standing at the end of the runway behind the plane during take-off is ''safe'' or not.

As I mentioned earlier (and a couple others have alluded to), the REAL safety issue is WHY does that pilot have to do that? People have stated, ''It makes it easier''. When did EASIER become ''better'' or ''safer''? I see this trend creeping into every aspect of our society today and I find it disturbing and alarming!

With just about anything that each of us are free to choose to do, there comes a responsibility to act responsibly in order to assure that nobody else is potentially affected or harmed. In order to assure our continued freedoms, it is each of our responsibilities to act accordingly. In this instance, it is NOT fair or safe to the other flyers to ''bend'' the normal procedures and rules to allow one person a crutch to fly his plane because it is ''easier''. PERIOD! That pilot needs further training and has not EARNED the right to fly that particular plane until he can do so without special considerations.

If I were to witness such behavior at my field, I would not feel that the pilot had reasonable and adequate control of any of his planes at any time, and would simply pack my things and head home. Hardly fair to me, no?

Basically, that pilot is saying, I REALLY WANT to fly my latest, whiz-bang aircraft, but I do not posess the skills, so I will take a shortcut and do it the ''easy'' way. It's like the person who repeatedly fails their drivers' test, but decides it's okay to drive since they happen to have a car!

THIS IS NOT RIGHT OR FAIR TO THE REST OF THE CLUB MEMBERS....PERIOD!

Regards,

Astrohog
from the above i'm going to assume that you also have a problem with things like servo reversing, dual rates, ATV, iron on covering, etc., etc.
Old 04-05-2013, 07:00 AM
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flyinwalenda
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: astrohog


ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda
If using common sense and common courtesy it shouldn't be an issue for the newb on their first takeoffs or for those with a maiden flight of an airframe type they never flew before. Some will agree it's safer to stand behind a plane when you don't know how it will react on the ground or as it leaves the ground so the pilot can react quicker to keep the plane straight and away from the flight line, etc...
Safer than what? Certainly NOT safer than NOT flying until you ARE competent! THAT is what common sense and courtesy would say!

Would it be too much to ask said pilot to hook up to a buddy box with an experienced pilot in order to accommodate the safety of everybody else at the field? COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY SAYS, "NO!"

Regards,

Astro
You are drawing your own conclusion that all fliers who do this are not competent pilots. Tell that to the veteran pilots where I fly who do this the first time when taking up a plane that has never flown and they are not sure how it will react once off the ground.
The "common sense" part says you wouldn't do this while other planes are in the air and wait for the field to clear.
The "common courtesy" part says other fliers would wait for the pilot to get behind the fence before going up or wait until the plane lands since it's a maiden flight.

Old 04-05-2013, 07:27 AM
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llindsey1965
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

not allowed at our field AMA states you fly from behind the flight line not on the field , that is very dangereous , espically if you have a lot of members we have 140 membersa sometimes we have several planes in the air at the same time , bad decision need to learn to fly from correct position so it is safe for every one, you should have a flight line fence or pilot boxes

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