fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, the car analogy is useless.

You sit IN your car, and watch everyone else around you.

You fly an R/C aircraft, your eyes are focused on your airplane, not everyone else's in the sky.

Accidentally rear-ending a car is the result of being an inattentive moron.

Accidentally hitting another airplane is the result of(most likely) not seeing it until it is too late to prevent the collision.

This has always been my opinion of accidental midairs:

Whether you have a 50 buck foamie or a 6K giant scale, if you are worried about something happening, either fly ONLY when no one else is up, or leave it on the ground.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

If you dont look ahead of your plane, youd be up some fences or trees in notime. Up there its nothing but sky, so airplanes stand out perty good, so you HAVE to notice them, even in the corners of your eyes. I dont know about you guys, but I for one do not experience tunnelvision when im flying...

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

You are of course, welcome to your opinion, but I wouldn't expect someone to pay for my plane in a midair if I were you.
Dennis-

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Heheh, true. But thats just 21th century mentality. I do not wish to push my opinion, but I just tell how it SHOULD be.
If you destroy other peoples property, intentionally or not, you should be expected to pay for it. Does that sound normal, only to me?

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I alway think its funny when someone tries to equate the cost of the collision to these discussions. That one falls into the famous "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it" category.

scottrc

"If you destroy other peoples property, intentionally or not, you should be expected to pay for it. Does that sound normal, only to me?"


Only if the other people are not intentionally putting their property at risk. I used to race stock cars, and when I was hit, or hit another car, I couldn't go and whine that the other driver should pay for damages, why? Because we put purposely put ourselves in a situation where accidents are a given. The highway is different because their are rules and regulations that drivers must follow to ensure that the risk for accidents is lowered. We have a hobby that has a HIGH risk for error, that is why no insurance company will ever try to insure our planes. Now I'm sure some guy will take another to court and sue for damages, and probably win, but I really hope that this hobby doesn't turn into a bunch of rules for litigation.

Scott

ben flyn

If he is an eratic flyer, why are you flying with him? The answer is NO. Why do we want to blame and not look at our selves?

Stripes

My Feedback: (19)

Legally pilot #2 was negligent and caused damage to pilot #1 so in legal terms he should pay. How he acted after the collision is relevant only to prove his state of mind with regard to the negligence. His excuse that he did not see the other plane is not important. He should have seen it. He should have been watching where he was going. He was in operation of a vehicle and as such watching where you are going is expected.

Now in practical terms there are no written rules about this that I know of and the unwritten understanding we all seem to go by is that our control of these planes is not all that precise. We all realize that we launch our planes into an uncertain environment. Nothing highlighs our acceptance of this risk so much as the field rules about how many planes can be up at once. I have seen quite a few mid-airs and most of the time the pilots are very mature about it but occasionally there is some hard feeling for a while. Some pay, some offer to pay, others call it a wash, but nobody wants the lawyers involved.

CRFlyer

I voted NO since as was mentioned, this was an accident. Both pilots put their planes at risk by flying and knew the potential risks. It is an unfortunate accident, however Pilot 2 in this case does need to grow up show some compassion for the other guy's loss.

Carroll-RCU

My Feedback: (43)

Pilot #2 flies under #1 and then pulls up into #1. Pilot #2 must be blind or just doesn't care if he hits # 1. Pilot #2 should offer to replace lost plane out of respect.

50+AirYears

Our club several years ago clarified this situation in one of our field rules. It was not pushed into effect by a small committee or group of officers, but was presented to the membership by advance notice through the club newsletter and was read at two business meeting, and voted on by the 47 members present at the second meeting. The vote was unanimous. All 47 members agreed that in order to fly safely, each pilot needs to be aware of where the plane is heading, where it is in relation to the flight line, and to other planes in the air. The effect of the field rule is that if an overtaking pilot hits the plane in front of him, he owes the other pilot acompensation. If a pilot pulls up or dives into another plane, he owes compensation.
My club has a reputation for having to many rules. Similar to AMA, we have about 10 general rules, 8 R/C specific, 6 for control line, and 5 for free flight.
If any pilot starts apparently 'going after' another plane without an agreement between him and the target pilot, he will be stepped on.
We have a number of professionals who are involved either with safety committees at work or work on safety related products, me included. We don't accept the concept of stuff happens, when somebody is flying uncontrolled.
Oh, of course there are always a small number of members who complain about "Rules railroaded" into place. Like most of these people, they will express their opinion among themselves and to anybody who will listen, but never in formal discussion at a meeting. They also seemingly never show up at a meeting when there is going to be a vote. They also seem conspicuously absent when we are having nominations for officers.

Sport Flyer

My Feedback: (10)

I doubt you'll find too many flying fields where the members assign liability to midairs. Scat happens and its a shame when it does sometimes but that's the reality. We had a debate here a short while ago because some poor fellow's plane was crashed into from above while taxiing off the field. I thought the pilot who crashed into the taxiing plane should pony up for the damages but others pointed out that the 'assumed risk' really doesn't end till the planes are back in the car. As I stated previously I'd personally feel some responsibility if I was the one pulling up or down into someone else but that's me - others wouldn't because of issues of character, finances, whatever.

It is almost impossible to judge perspective on two airplanes flying the pattern unless they are both the exact same size. If you've ever participated in or even witnessed a combat event you'd know its quite hard to deliberately collide with another plane.

... and btw, thank-you Mr. Carroll

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Just wanted to reitterate what smallfly said! He has a very good point. Get a spotter, it helps. Midairs happen. I have seen them a few times, and although loosing a plane sucks, all you can do is make the best of it and go on. If you can't, don't fly when others are up. Its a pretty easy concept.

50+AirYears

A couple friends of mine had a bad day at the field with two midairs. Not with other members, with each other. Since they were practicing combat, you could say the get-togethers were inevitable. Not so inevitable, after flying was ended for the day, I brought out some FF hand launched gliders. Both these guys had been competitive in CL and FF years before, so I handed each one of them a glider. After a couple easy flights so they could get use to throwing them, and a little bit of tweaking the trim, we lined up for a fly-off. Sure enough, after about 20 seconds of flight, they had a mid air. Now that's an accident. When you have control of the plane, and have a mid-air, that is a matter of not correctly controlling the plane, it's not a true accident. Accidents are essentially unavoidable; mid-airs should be avoidable.

Roll On 60

Our club field rules state that any mid-air accident is a no fault incident. Mid airs happen all the time so pick up the pieces and go on. I voted no.

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

I voted NO on the survey, but this actually happened to me. It was many moons ago. My friend and I were still new in the hobby. He was flying an Astro Hog and i was still in my trainer. We were both flying the pattern, I was underneath him. i didn't realize that we were close until I pulled up for a loop. My trainer went through his wing.

The trainer was destroyed and never replaced. His fuselage was undamaged but the wing was totaled. I was fortunate because there was a built ugly-duckling Astro Hog that had just show up on consignment at the LHS. I bought it for CHEEEEP, peeled covering off the wing and delivered it to my friend.

In a slightly ironic twist, I ended up buying that good flying Hog from the friend just a few months later.

Except for combat, this is the only midair I have ever witnessed.

AgCat1982

DBCherry, that's why I said "plain human decency, that seems to be fading away these days" . That's a very strong feeling I have. I couldn't imagine hitting some else's anything and not offer to pay for the damages!!! That the way I was raised, I don't know about anyone else. If anyone hit mine and offered to pay, I would be surprised, but I would tell them "thanks for offering, but, @hit happens!"

fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

I agree Roger.

If it had been me who had pulled up and totalled the other guy's plane, I would have offered to pay for some if not all the damaged items, even though it was an accident. However, I don't believe that anyone should be forced to.

If I had been the victim, I would not have tried to push the guy to pay. Even though it probably would be the right thing to offer some compensation.

Finally, if I were offered compensation for the guy pulling up and ripping my wing off, I would say no thanks, because like others have said, you take the risk when you're up, and somtimes stuff just happens.

rfw1953

My Feedback: (2)

I don't think anyone is arguing about the guys attitude. However, some don't seem to understand what is a fairly common rule at a majority of flying fields. There may be exceptions to this, but I find that most clubs have a documented rule which states that midair collisions are a no fault reality of the hobby. Knowing this, when I had my first midair while flying a 1/4 scale with a 160 about a month ago, the other pilot and I picked up the remains of our airplanes, shook hands and walked away. I had called out that I was landing and setting up for my approach on the crosswind leg. Out of nowhere this trainer flies right in front of my path. The other guy had been flying for about two years, had moved up to a low wing airplane, lost it, and went back to trainers. I didn't know the guy so had no knowledge about him or his flying skills. It was ugly and both planes were totaled. Granted, we both felt bad and neither of us reacted with anger or haughty pleasure from the event. Had the guy made an ugly comment about it I certainly wouldn't have liked it, but that wouldn't have changed the club rule on the issue.

I now try to have a spotter anytime one is available and do the same for others. It only took one mid-air for me to learn how important this is. I hope I never have another one. I have to admit that my senses have become more aware of those around me and who is flying. I'm more picky about when I go up and who I'm flying with. If I don't know the guy I stay down until I find the right time for me to fly.

fiveoboy01

My Feedback: (3)

I agree Roger.

If it had been me who had pulled up and totalled the other guy's plane, I would have offered to pay for some if not all the damaged items, even though it was an accident. However, I don't believe that anyone should be forced to.

If I had been the victim, I would not have tried to push the guy to pay. Even though it probably would be the right thing to offer some compensation.

Finally, if I were offered compensation for the guy pulling up and ripping my wing off, I would say no thanks, because like others have said, you take the risk when you're up, and somtimes stuff just happens.

I think I'd feel a lot better about the whole thing if the guy just acted like a MAN and not a CHILD, came up to me and said "Man I'm so sorry, I didn't see you, I feel terrible". Apparently #2 had other thoughts, and that isn't right.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

I think the most decent thing to do without ripping any money from anyone, is to offer to rebuild it together, perhaps throw in some spare parts to smoothen the blow when the bill comes.. Building a plane is a lot of fun anyway, especially with someone else around to chat with. It will cost some money, but well... lose something, gain something.

I mean, whats the point of an RC club, if you dont do the RC thing together instead of minding your own stuff and being rude to eachother when something happens to someones gear.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

That sure sucks out loud...I voted no, but the guy who hit you is a arse of monumental proportions.

*Crash*Johnson*

My Feedback: (7)

I think Pilot 2 owes pilot one a beer and then everyone can just get along.

air mail rcu

I can see it now.... Oh I'm sorry I didn't see your finger there....boy that exato knife sure is sharp. I think your going to need about 400 stiches to close that. Hey guys you should have been there he put his hand right in front of where I was cutting. Man there was blood everywhere. Man that was neat. I think he made it to the Hospital.

Sorry I think I'd pass on the the rebuild togatherness.

SwampFlier-RCU

I voted yes but only because pilot #2's attitude and being a total jerk.. otherwise mid airs are happenstances in lieu of a flight control tower )