beardking

My Feedback: (4)

cwat, that story reminds of the city that is right next to me. Frisco, TX school mascot used to be the Coons, but last year it was changed because too many people thought that it was offensive. What a big waste of money. You know the taxpayers are the ones that ended up footing the bill for all of the jerseys and anything else that had the logo on it to be changed. Can't think of what their mastcot is now, but something tells me it's highly offensively PC.

Crash_N_Burn

Use the swastika. Use the Iron Cross. Use it all.

It is important. It is "our" (worldly) history.

Remember....

"People who ignore history are destined to repeat it"

The insignias on our planes sutlely help people remember what was....and what could be.....again.

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Yes things have changed a lot over the years. I'm German, Father born in Berlin and he was in the US Navy but that didn't matter, no German was spoken in the house. I'm part Indian, (Blackfoot/Sioux) had ancestors at Wounded Knee, very proud of that background. First Wife was from Austria and her parents were Nazi's, had to be to stay alive then. Daughters Mother in Law is German and was a air traffic controller for the Luftwaffe in WW-II. I think that if most people checked real good into their background they would find some very interesting to think about!

jpf5911

My .60 Ugly Stik came with the Iron Crosses but I used American Flags instead.

However, I see no problem with building and flying historically accurate scale models. Just because you build and fly a scale model WWII German airplane doesn't make you a Nazi.

Moreover, if no one ever built or flew scale model WWII German airplanes again, it wouldn't mean that WWII didn't happen.

JPF

JakeCarter

Anyone who gets offended by the iron cross type symbols should be reminded that many of our own US military service medals are made of the same shapes. It's a symbol that's been around for a very long time, way before hitler was born. Most of my planes are scratch built (SPADs) and I've put various forms of the iron cross on many of them, mainly because I like how it looks on a plane and I'm part German. Not because I like who hitler was or what he stood for. Unfortunately there will always be people in this world that jump to uninformed conclusions and get offended.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I have to agree, but like was said in the first post, they were originally Christian symbols, and still are regardless of what some nut used them for.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Its a model airplane, not a political statement!!!!
I like to take kits of sport airplanes and by doing a little kit bashing and with carefull use of decals and insignia to create the "illusion" that the airplane is sorta-scale. I have used German insignia several times and I have had a few folks complain. I have always responded to them the same way. I don't mix politics with my airplanes.

The PIPE

Dear Fellow RCU'ers:

The PIPE Here again-and I'm ALL for duplicating historical aircraft EXACTLY as they looked...and that means, if I was to model a "BIFF" (the Messerchmitt Bf109) I would, IF I did it in its original WW II era Luftwaffe markings, place the scale "Teufelkreuz" or swastika (my German name here means "Devils' Cross"...just TOO appropriate a name for it, although it WAS called the "Hakenkreuz"-hooked cross- by the 1933-1945 Luftwaffe itself) on the vertical tail as it was SUPPOSED to look in WW II.

If one wanted to do a German WW II type of aircraft, but NOT have the "Teufelkreuz" on the tail, don't forget a 1948 vintage Czech-built Avia S199, a post-war built "Biff", with a Junkers Jumo 211 powerplant that really made it behave like a "flying MULE", could even have the ISRAELI Magen David on there...and one Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-5 I've seen photos of, Werknummer 150 051, was in full blown US NAVY three color regulation comouflage during its testing at their Patuxent Naval Air test center in WW II.

The modern German Luftwaffe resurrected the Eisernes Kreuz "iron cross" of World War I insignia, but took the white borders off the ENDS of the cross much as the Balkankreuz had had done to it, that Germany had converted to in April 1918 (only less than two weeks before the Red Baron's death on April 21st of that year)...and that "modern" version of the Eisernes Kreuz is STILL used today, not only on modern Bundesdeutsche Luftwaffe aircraft, but on tanks of the Bundeswehr (German Army) as well...!

I've not yet heard of anyone objecting to the Confederate Battle Flag atop the "Dukes of Hazzard" TV show's famous "General Lee" Dodge Charger automobile, and I imagine someone who goes to performance car shows MIGHT see a re-creation of this famous "star car"...but as of yet, I've heard of NO ONE ever objecting to the Confederate Battle flag on THAT very famous vehicle at all!

It's STILL important to remember our history in a "warts and all" format..to do any less, in any sort of pervasive manner, just would NOT be the right thing to do.

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

LuvBipes

My Feedback: (4)

My parents survived the holocaust in Europe by the skin of their teeth, but I still don't see a problem using the swastika on a scale model of a German WWII plane. If it were applied to a sport plane, however, I would wonder about the owner's motivations...

Ptarmigan

History is unpleasant. As much as I hate Nazis, I am not bothered to see swastika and iron cross on a Germany airplane model. Swastika meant a good thing, but the Nazis screwed it all up . Do people get offended if they see a red star on Russian aircraft model, the sickle and hammer (Communist logo), or CCCP (USSR in Russian, stands for Soyuz Sovietskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) offensive? Soviet Union killed lots of people, like Nazis. Nazism and Communism are the same thing, but with some differences. Politics aside. That could also be said about the rising sun of Japan during World War II or North Korea's flag and logo.

Ruralflyer

I agree with ptarmigan, a plane is not a political statement, and there are worse or equal symbols to the swastika. I'm not offened by any of these symbols. The reason is that I like most people realize when the use of a symbol actually conveys the owner's beliefs or not, which it usually doesn't. Most people that see an authentic Fock Wulf model (which look really nice in my opinion) do realize that the swastika on the tail is purely historical and doesn't prove evil ideas on the pilot's part. Anyone who is offended and demands not to see it is the one to blame for the offense, not the symbol. But when someone hangs a Nazi flag on top of their house with a complete swastika, you have to wonder???

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

We just dont get this in the UK, Zeros come with suns, and most UK based kits come with swastika's.
whats the deal at scale comp's? are you allowed to leave them off?
We are the one's that fought the might of the German Luftwaffa and we are quite happy to show the aircraft as they looked, maybe coz we kicked ass LOL

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

If the decals were applied in the same fashion and location that the aircraft in WWII had the emblem displayed, the motivation is to create the illusion the sport airplane is resembling the real thing! Thats the MOTIVATION, nothing more! If you leave off standard emblems of that era, than you can't make it appear like its FROM that era.
With a little creativity you can transform most low wing sport aircraft into "Stand way off" scale aircraft. Changing the shape of the wing tips and tail surfaces, reshaping the turtle deck and a new canopy that resembles the one on the aircraft you are working towards, will change the airplanes appearance considerably. But to make it work, you need to carefully find a photo of the airplane you are trying to resemble and replicate the colors and markings.
A couple of years back I built a Senior Telemaster and changed the landing gear to a taller more sturdy one. A friend of mine commented that it looked like a Fiesler "Storch" recon aircraft from Germany. I found numerous pictures of this plane and covered the telemaster in olive green and gray. I used trim material to change the appearance of the cockpit window layout and replicated the markings from the pictures I had, right down to the specific designation number. I added nomenclature decals in the same fashion that the real aircraft displayed them and ended up with a very original trainer type airplane, that by the way, won my clubs building contest.
A bunch of years back I took an ACE 4-60 monoplane kit and kit bashed it into a two seater and with a little work on the wing tips and tail surfaces I created a sorta PT-19. I used the Army Air Corps yellow and blue color scheme and replicated the markings from a picture of a real one in my area. I had dozens of people come up to me while I was flying it and ask "what PT-19 kit is that, it fly great".
I have done numerous aircraft like this from all different origins. There are many other modelers that are just like me, who use good modeling skills, and a little imagination to create a one of a kind, good flying aircraft that looks like the real thing without taking the time to build a "scale" aircraft.
My latest "illusion" is the Great Planes Pete and Poke. The more I look at it, the more it looks like a WWI sorta airplane. The right color scheme, decals, machine guns and wire wheels.........well you get the picture.

Tall Paul

CCRC, the motivation for using the Nazi swastika on a sport plane, not a scale model, is to OFFEND!

scottrc

A story for Ptarmigan about the Russian symbols. Back in the 1980's, my model club was commissioned to build a model display for a new Airforce museum at Malmstrom Airforce Base in Great Falls, Montana. representing every model that flew through Malmstrom
(formally East Base). Well, Great Falls was a fitting out base for Lend Lease aircraft going to Russia. So all the the aircraft were painted and marked to represent the Russian airforce.

When the base museum acquired a full size B-25, our committee went about the task of submitting the color chit and painting it in Russian colors. Talk about pissing off some high ranking generals in the US Airforce and a Congressman who felt that it was "very inappropriate" to have communism represented at a US airbase. Needless to say, we had to paint all of our lend lease aircraft in the traditional Green over Grey with the stars and bars. We had direct orders from the Pentagon not to represent ANY airplane with that of the USSR, China, Vietnam, or North Korea.
Only exception was the F-5 aggressor that would visit for air-shows, and it did not have the red stars on it.
I always thought what some Russian Intelligence Officer would think while scanning photos from his spy satellite of Malmstrom and seeing a bomber with Russian Markings on it.

Tall Paul

That symbol isn't needed, unless you're a full-blown exact scale builder!
This one doesn't have it and doesn't need it. Nothing is lost...

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

The ME109 represents the Natzi's just as much as the symbol, if wasn't for them the war wouldn't have happened and the ME109 wouldn't have been designed, now as an American don't you feel ashamed owning a plane based on a German plane which killed so many of our boys while they tried to end the reign of the Natzi's, nope, you don't even give it a thought, why should you, Do Germans ban American symbols on their models?
On ARTF American fighters you'll see little kill marks under the cockpit, isn't this offending the people that really did die under the fire of the fighter its based on?

Short of dressing as Hitler and chasing the local Jews, no-ones gonna think your a Natzi or support their ideals just coz you have some scale detail on a plane.
As the triphunt nations we should be able to look at the symbol and think with pride how our men fought and died to end their power.
Anyway, it's on my mates plane ( much like yours ) and i didnt even really notice it untill this thread. Rest assured i will be putting the correct markings on my Zero when its finished

Cdallas2

Some of you aren't looking at the big picture. You're forgetting that there are a helluva lot of places in this world that see your Stars and Stripes as just as evil as you see the Swastika.

Paul:

Your Me-109 seems to be missing some markings on the tail.

Ruralflyer

True but I doubt the Taliban flys RC.......

(your plane is a beaut' Paul)

vtol_guy

Even though i do find the swastika slightly offensive, if we went around taking off everything that offended someone then they wouldn't be anything left in the world, just my 2 pence

robert

The whole outside world does not include the taliban, or other 'terrorists' out to get you, I'm sorry to tell you. I see no reason why those markings should be deemed as offensive.
If you give out about these, then think about it. How many times do you see the American flag on a plane? Jason Shulman has the whole plane as a flag. i have seen here on RCU, guys with 'support our boys' in their signatures and avatars. You can be damn sure that this is offending someone reading it, but what does it matter, as long as it is pro USA, its ok.
So go ahead, if someone gets offended by a little sticker, its them that has to deal with it.

vtol_guy

everyone should respect everyone's views though. For many, the swastika represents evil for most people i'm quite sure.

If i was to go running around my town shouting out something racist or sexist ect, or paraded a banner around with me indicating something like that, then it would offend some people. I respect that in the interests of some things such as educational purposes or for scale aircraft say, then it may be necessary to show the swatstika. If i see someone walking around with a swastika as a tattoo, or maybe some vandals spraying swatstika's on walls, then i get very offended as it shoes what thousands of young men and women died for, just so some mindless idiots can go around thinking its "cool" to rebel against everything.

robert

i'll ask a question. How would you feel if I were to display the American flag, or references to 'your boys' in any country, say Argentina?

vtol_guy

i wouldnt feel anything really, i would think its a bit thoughtless though, i wouldnt go around with the union jack in another country, africa for example, in the past the british en-slaved people from over there, i dont think it would be such a wise thing to go around with the union jack in my hand , do you?

robert

But you wouldn't feel anything?