Al Stein

In the words of a famous guy who took off one time more than the number of times he landed, Yes, of course that will irritate some people... especially since neither of those markings appeared on that plane or any like it historically.

If you're out to raise some hackles and start some interesting emotional discussions with folks you may see as narrow minded, then you've found a good way to do it. If you're out to mollify anyone attached to either of those symbols, lotsa luck doing it that way!

Grumpy Monkey

My Feedback: (7)

I guess I will state my experience this past weekend. I brought my ME109 to the field to show it to one of the other guys.Its not ready to fly, but just about there. I have a GP Mustang that is detailed pretty well and when I brought that out, it was ewww's and ahhhh's from everyone, scale people, visitors, sport flyers. Now when I pulled out the 109, which is even sweeter looking then the stang, the guy I brought it to show appreciated it for what it is, a scale model of a historical aircraft, no more, no less, as did a few of the other scale guys. But for the most part, not even a wow, nice paint job or nothing. I am not one looking for compliments all the time as I know what I build is either good or not, but the 109 is sharp, and I guess I was looking for more interest from other members be it a conversation, or an explanation on technique or whatever. Most walked up and checked out the Mustang sitting beside it, totally overlooked the 109, and walked off. I just thought it was interesting. I am gonna try again in 2 weeks and see if the attitude changes and a few more people will be there. Here is a pic... judge for yourself...

Warren

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

Its pretty nice, is it a Cambrian one? i just notice the same logo as on their site.
its just that things like the Mustang and Spitfire here became gods of aircraft as they were on our side, for all the ME109 was it cant win the hearts and minds on those who have been brought idolizing the might of the Mustang and beauty of the Spitfire in all the films and documentary's

airbatic

A rightly beautiful craft. An Austrian web site feels the same-to replicate and preserve historically, not get wiggly when one sees swastikas or iron crosses.

Kraus

scottrc

Once saw at an IPMS show an Israeli BF 109 with supporting documentation.

Thought that would of made old Herman Goring flip a lid.

Jim_McIntyre

Good point.
We should not promote ignorance by editing history.


I've taken a lot of flak for the model shown below... worst thing is, those aren't German markings...

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Can't judge without seeing the P-51 also!

Bruno Stachel

My Feedback: (4)

The Israeli Bf 109's were all or mostly Czech built versions that were prone to mechanical problems. They went up against Egyptian Spitfires!

Grumpy Monkey

My Feedback: (7)

Heres the stang, more in the gallery...the point being, the stang is nice, but the 109 had a lot more weathering done,paint chips, panel lines and the works and a lot more time put into it and overall came out better then the stang(which is the idea, to progress).



Warren

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

Warren the 109 looks awsume! Followed your thread on weathering.

I guess I'm gonna freak out a few people when I'm done with my Jug, and the scheme I have picked out!

Todd

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

dosnt matter, its not a Mustang, and thats what people like.
personaly i think the ME looks FAR better scale wise. Mustangs just look good full stop

Cdallas2

Hey Warren,

I think your Me-109 looks really sharp. You can sure tell side by side which one you spent more time on. Is the 109 a kit or a scratch job?

Todd:

I love that scheme myself. If you read some of my earlier posts the olive drab and yellow P-51B is on my project list. I've got a TF 1/7 kit just waiting to go. It's sure to raise some eyebrows at the field. Wonder about mall shows though?

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

thanks, and yes it will be different.
I also found a scheme I may do for my Nosen P51 as well!

Now I need another German plane so I can do it as a captured
US plane with Stars & Bars

Cdallas2

It's not the USAAF but it's close.

Grumpy Monkey

My Feedback: (7)

Burl,
I too really like the look of the captured jug and seriously thought of doing one as well. It definataly might raise some eyebrows.

As far as the markings...
I think some people "get it" and some people just dont understand enough about history to understand what the model represents (provided that the model is a scale warbird). I am not prejudice by any means, I just have an appreciation for the aircraft and engineers (no matter what country they stood behind) that built these amazing planes in a time when just a few short years earlier, aviation was in its infancy. War does that. It stimulates technological advancement. German engineers were an important part in the advancement of aviation. A lot of the aircraft designs that came shortly after the war were based on those designs and to an extent have led us to where we are today. IMHO, the stealth fighter of today looks a lot like the Horton Wing in form and function. Its all relevant and its all collective. If it fought during the war, It has my appreciation, no matter whether it was allied or axis, but I also know that the aircraft (model) isnt built to display a prejudice or hatred. Mine are built out of respect and admiration for those who fought and died for their beliefs and their country, even if it wasnt the same as mine. You may agree, you may not.

CDallas,
The plane stated life as a sureflite foam kit. The only thing I used was the fuselage and cowl. Everything else was scratch built (canopy,wheel hubs,etc) around that. The wing is from a crashed super chipmunk and rebuilt to fit the fuse and bashed to accept retracts which function in a scale manner, ie retract outward towards the wing tips. I have a thread in the warbirds section about the weathering process applied to the plane called More weathered warbirds if you wanted to check it out from the start of the painting process.

Warren

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

I agree Warren with your statement there. I wanted a different paint scheme, and this one fit the bill And it also has a great story behind it, the American pilot wasnt shot down by the Germans. He simple was low on fuel and landed....in Germany
as he thought he was in England!

Cdallas2

That seemed to happen quite often didn't it. I remember read about a FW-190 pilot who did the same and was supprised as he** when everyone spoke english. Don't know if it's the one I posted above but sure could be.

airbatic

Ah Yes! The power of the swastika.

It's got everyone in a tizzy.

The cicle and hammer, the star of David, nor the cross has such impact as the swastika.

Ah yes! The power of the swastika.

Kraus

paul_c

My Feedback: (6)

Most people are offended because of some unresolved issue that is within them. As many of you said, these planes are not political statements, they are historically correct models. If all one can do is get upset when looking at these beautiful flying machines, they may need to educate themselves on world history, and Germany's current position on the world stage. Germans are not particularly proud of their past (this may be evident in their recent veto against near unilateral action by the US against Iraq).

Crash_N_Burn

Quote by paul_C:

"Most people are offended because of some unresolved issue that is within them."

With all due respect, I think the issue of the swastika is a resolved issue for many people.

For many it represents the slaughter of millions of innocent people by an evil man. Torture. Pain. Fear. Death. EVIL.

As I've said earlier, I don't have a problem if you wish to put it on your model. That's your choice. But don't expect it to be accepted by everyone.

"Germans are not particularly proud of their past (this may be evident in their recent veto against near unilateral action by the US against Iraq)."

You are correct, most Germans are not proud of their past, but that doesn't have anything to do with their UN veto of the Iraq war.

They had a vested interest in the oil fields there plus they were selling illegal high tech equipment to Iraq and didn't want to be discovered. Equipment that killed, or help kill, many Americans and coalition patriots.

I doubt compassion and WWII ever crossed their minds......

Cdallas2

You guys have a pretty big vested interest in those same oil fields too.

I can see this going off topic real quick. If you have such a problem with a symbol I suggest you just ignore it. If I want to put something on my plane (whether or not it's a scale airplane) is my right and freedom. If you don't like it tough s**t.

We live in a world of equal rights and free speach. If you censor a symbol you are being a martyr of everything that our fathers and grandfathers fought for.

If you ban a model of a Nazi German airplane why stop there. We should ban having a model of a B-29's. Those 2 nuclear bombs killed a helluva lot of "innocent" Japanese.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

Please keep the present day politics out of this.

dglick10

Leave the markings...you are correct when you say the iron cross was originally a symbol of early christians (crusades) if you want to call that holy....that's a whole different story.

The swastika was the symbol of a political party which is now banned in Germany (Even though they captured 13% of the vote in their last election).

However, the Iron Cross is still used on their aircraft. I just returned from there 3 years ago and they shared the airfield with us....flew on the helicopters nearly once a week. It isn't perceived by them as offensive nor most of europe I think for that matter...just the swastika and for good reason I suppose.

For that matter the iron cross is no more a symbol of germany than the star is for us on our aircraft...it's been used for years and was on my Great Grandfathers airplane during WW1, which we all know was pre Hitler/Nazi...I also have (and wear) his Iron Cross ring which he was presented when he was awarded the Iron Cross during WW1.

fly109

My Feedback: (1)

Crash_N_Burn,

Completely off topic but is your avatar of that dude from the movie "Flash Gordon"? You know, the one from the 80s? I think he was the leader fo the birdmen but I could be totaly wrong.

BTW - Bingo what you said in your last post.

BigSTIK40flier

hmmm i wonder if i put the iron cross and swaztika as my avatar how many pms with curse words in them that would also say remove it, the point to all is that no matter what the symbol like the confedarate flag if its shown its offensive to all but who live in the south we see it (even tho it is bad) as part of are history and the same thing with the iron crosses. and frankly i get more offended by some one trying to make bad sysmbols seem right by changing them. JUST LEAVE THEM ON the plane(btw way do you know where i can get a good avatar of a stik with the crosses showing?)