Don Muddiman Flying Machine
09-12-2012, 01:08 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
I'm not sure the email was directed to me...but I was checking...my name is Steve (alias Mr.Sand)
09-12-2012, 07:05 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
I'm not much of a poster but I'll weigh in on the Flying Machine. I've had many airplanes over the almost 20 years I've been flying but no other can match the flight envelope of this plane. I've built 5 of them (including my current one) and have tortured them all and none have ever had a structural failure in the air. The previous 4 all eventually met their end by impacting the ground (usually inverted lol!).
My current FM was scratch built from Don's plans using the built up wing (stock - no carbon added)and it has proven to be just as strong as the foam wing version (and a little lighter). At least a few times each flight I'll climb to 300-400 ft and dive straight down full throttle (using a YS45 piped engine) and push the sticks in the corners. The FM just starts doing insane snaps and will finish in a nice flat spin if you cross the ailerons.
It really is a great design and anyone thinking of buying one will definitly not be dissapointed. There really is nothing else on the market that can match the performance. If the ARF meets Don's specs, then you can be assured you will have an awsome sport plan that will take anything you can through at it and smile back. Worth every penny IMHO.
At the same time I built mine last year, a flying buddy also built one using electric power. He used a Scorpion 4020-8 motor on a 6s 4000mah pack.and it also has outstanding flight performance (easily matching my ys45 powered version).
Here's a couple of videos of my current FM. The first is the maiden flight from last fall and the second is from this summer (the first 1:30ish is the FM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNAGGHS6RA&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqI776yWgc&feature=plcp
Joe
My current FM was scratch built from Don's plans using the built up wing (stock - no carbon added)and it has proven to be just as strong as the foam wing version (and a little lighter). At least a few times each flight I'll climb to 300-400 ft and dive straight down full throttle (using a YS45 piped engine) and push the sticks in the corners. The FM just starts doing insane snaps and will finish in a nice flat spin if you cross the ailerons.
It really is a great design and anyone thinking of buying one will definitly not be dissapointed. There really is nothing else on the market that can match the performance. If the ARF meets Don's specs, then you can be assured you will have an awsome sport plan that will take anything you can through at it and smile back. Worth every penny IMHO.
At the same time I built mine last year, a flying buddy also built one using electric power. He used a Scorpion 4020-8 motor on a 6s 4000mah pack.and it also has outstanding flight performance (easily matching my ys45 powered version).
Here's a couple of videos of my current FM. The first is the maiden flight from last fall and the second is from this summer (the first 1:30ish is the FM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNAGGHS6RA&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqI776yWgc&feature=plcp
Joe
09-12-2012, 07:17 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: mrsand
I'm not sure the email was directed to me...but I was checking...my name is Steve (alias Mr.Sand)
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
I'm not sure the email was directed to me...but I was checking...my name is Steve (alias Mr.Sand)
09-13-2012, 04:29 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: screamrp
Price , Not at all high. !! // Would you rather build it yourself which takes at least 70 hours, or just open the box and it's beautiful. !! Even a YAK is 180.00, and that's NO Flying Machine. !! You get what you pay for, and if you want the best it's really worth 250.00 if I was the one selling it. Keep in mind, I have never sold a USED Flying Machine for less than 200.00 stripped of all hardware. // Priced perfect CONDOR !! Thanks for bringing it to the market. !! SCREAMRP Yes I'm buying one too. !! But mine will be Electric. !! - The King of Scream
Price , Not at all high. !! // Would you rather build it yourself which takes at least 70 hours, or just open the box and it's beautiful. !! Even a YAK is 180.00, and that's NO Flying Machine. !! You get what you pay for, and if you want the best it's really worth 250.00 if I was the one selling it. Keep in mind, I have never sold a USED Flying Machine for less than 200.00 stripped of all hardware. // Priced perfect CONDOR !! Thanks for bringing it to the market. !! SCREAMRP Yes I'm buying one too. !! But mine will be Electric. !! - The King of Scream
are you kidding me
I will purchase 3 at these prices right away.....
what did we ever settle on the color scheme???? It's been so long I forget
(Sorry - I did have to throw that in there......)on another note, totally off topic, is the girl who can cover a plane in an hour hot? [X(]
If so, she whould then be considered "Marital Material" in my book [:-]
09-13-2012, 04:48 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
I'm afriad it is what it is. If we want a hands on designed Don Muddiman FM with: Aircraft grade plywood in all the high stress areas, Built to Don's Standards (not Hobby King), Fully webbed wing construction built to survive 41G maneuvers, Upgraded hardwood 4 bolt wing mounts in an ARF with all of the hardware, Then we have to do the math.
The average time to construct an FM over any ARF of its equal size is 3.2 hours longer and every one of them have to be identical and to Don's EXACT standards. This doesn't sound like much to us but in the grand scheme of things (as far as factory building is concerned) its huge.
Balsa is up 28%
These have to be built in a dye to get them perfect every time. No hand building construction (which is quicker) will work.
Originally I was shooting for pricing in the $190 range and in our first prototypes we were quoted a price that would accomodate this but the factory soon found out that their way of building this kit wasn't going to pass muster. This is why it took 11 months of prototypes (just on my end) to get to the final product that Don would sign off on.
This is (without question) the most sophisticated ARF EVER designed or even attempted. There were other factories that we gave the opportunity to build it that simply gave up or admitted this project was way out of their ability to complete to Don's specs. As a matter of fact, 5 years ago, this ARF wasn't possible. I think East RC found out it was just not going to be within reason to build the FM as the final price would make it unsellable.
But I will admit this. If East RC hadn't put fourth the effort in providing their final prototype, we wouldn't be here today. Thats just the facts. Most of the factories we visited wouldn't even attempt this project for the same reasons. The final price would just be too high or it wasn't in thier current skill base to make it and ARF.
I only offer this information not as an excuse for the FM pricing but more of an understanding as to WHATS IN THE BOX.
I hope you guys enjoy the final product as it has been a gut wrenching task but in the end, very much worth it.
After 38 years of knowing Don and flying with him, we finally have the worlds only ARF Flying Machine.
I'm afriad it is what it is. If we want a hands on designed Don Muddiman FM with: Aircraft grade plywood in all the high stress areas, Built to Don's Standards (not Hobby King), Fully webbed wing construction built to survive 41G maneuvers, Upgraded hardwood 4 bolt wing mounts in an ARF with all of the hardware, Then we have to do the math.
The average time to construct an FM over any ARF of its equal size is 3.2 hours longer and every one of them have to be identical and to Don's EXACT standards. This doesn't sound like much to us but in the grand scheme of things (as far as factory building is concerned) its huge.
Balsa is up 28%
These have to be built in a dye to get them perfect every time. No hand building construction (which is quicker) will work.
Originally I was shooting for pricing in the $190 range and in our first prototypes we were quoted a price that would accomodate this but the factory soon found out that their way of building this kit wasn't going to pass muster. This is why it took 11 months of prototypes (just on my end) to get to the final product that Don would sign off on.
This is (without question) the most sophisticated ARF EVER designed or even attempted. There were other factories that we gave the opportunity to build it that simply gave up or admitted this project was way out of their ability to complete to Don's specs. As a matter of fact, 5 years ago, this ARF wasn't possible. I think East RC found out it was just not going to be within reason to build the FM as the final price would make it unsellable.
But I will admit this. If East RC hadn't put fourth the effort in providing their final prototype, we wouldn't be here today. Thats just the facts. Most of the factories we visited wouldn't even attempt this project for the same reasons. The final price would just be too high or it wasn't in thier current skill base to make it and ARF.
I only offer this information not as an excuse for the FM pricing but more of an understanding as to WHATS IN THE BOX.
I hope you guys enjoy the final product as it has been a gut wrenching task but in the end, very much worth it.
After 38 years of knowing Don and flying with him, we finally have the worlds only ARF Flying Machine.
I have talked with you personally about Rich and I helping protype the "Composite" unit about 8 months ago.....maybe even 12
and I am personally huge on a electric one (From built up)
So I will be calling you again soon.......
Just to see if these guys can get that going for us......once you are settled in with this ARF...........and rich and I have been lying in wait [X(] as we knew the ARF was your priority (For obvious reasons)
so....in the mean time, I am going to have a Nitro, Rossi .40 pipe powered like richs , AND Electric (something like 5S or 6S - whatever works out) that rips.....and a spare kit in case I burry one.....
Sorry Joel (My local custom guy who built this beauty below) no more scratch built......unless we want custom (like rich's pink one (Which is AWESOME!)....sorry dude, the arf is here from China and I bet this chick does as good a job as you covering it
Can't wait for this kit :-) Might get me back to the field, I have been away for some time........
It has been a pleasure waiting for the ARF jsut because of what you said above......what it is in terms of construction..........quality is not cheap or fast.........in the mean time, if you are desperate for the FM, just buy the plans and have Joel build you one.....
09-13-2012, 04:59 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: ovationdave
I think you just inadvertently immasculated every one of us that spends hours of tedious effort covering a plane.
;-)
Dave
I think you just inadvertently immasculated every one of us that spends hours of tedious effort covering a plane.
;-)
Dave
ORIGINAL: Condor060
We looked at uncovered pricing. Its just not worth it. It only takes these girls about an hour to cover an aircraft. The price difference is 10 bucks.
We looked at uncovered pricing. Its just not worth it. It only takes these girls about an hour to cover an aircraft. The price difference is 10 bucks.
not really,
if your on an assembly line all day, and you know a few manufacturing tips, this can be done quite efficiently compaired to my table in the garage, one at a time etc.....
Don't forget the cutting machines they have today.....my wife can cut totally custom OS Logo's and such, from self adhesive, mono-coat, etc......
Covering is a real talent........IMHO........
it makes sense in this forum, where up till now these are all scratch built, people want ARC - and I have seen some awesome color schems out there........I personally do not like the black / yellow as my favorite scheme, but once they are up there and moving like the FM does, they are all black I guess....
09-13-2012, 05:09 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
mine is built up, scratch built and fiberglass cloth reenforced, as the plans instructed
strongest little wing I have ever seen........this ain't no "top flight or Hangar 9" [X(] (I can't believe I went there)
09-13-2012, 07:10 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
For you guys that want your own color scheme, Removing the existing covering isn't going to be difficult. Then you can cover it anyway you want. I have flown the FM in several different colors and the black and yellow is the best for me. And yes, the chicks covering the FM are china dallas cowboy cheerleaders with Brittney Spears (Hit me baby one more time) skirts.
Well, its nice to imagine our final Flying Machine Monsters are only coverd by hot chicks covered in hot oil so as long as I am not asked to provide pictures we will all just keep the faith.
Tomorrow I should have an arrival date to Seattle so we can all start planning on our assult on our flying fields as we take over the world in FM mayhem.
Our next adventure is going to be a composite FM. You can bank on it.
Well, its nice to imagine our final Flying Machine Monsters are only coverd by hot chicks covered in hot oil so as long as I am not asked to provide pictures we will all just keep the faith.
Tomorrow I should have an arrival date to Seattle so we can all start planning on our assult on our flying fields as we take over the world in FM mayhem.
Our next adventure is going to be a composite FM. You can bank on it.
09-14-2012, 09:05 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
For you guys that want your own color scheme, Removing the existing covering isn't going to be difficult. Then you can cover it anyway you want. I have flown the FM in several different colors and the black and yellow is the best for me. And yes, the chicks covering the FM are china dallas cowboy cheerleaders with Brittney Spears (Hit me baby one more time) skirts.
Well, its nice to imagine our final Flying Machine Monsters are only coverd by hot chicks covered in hot oil so as long as I am not asked to provide pictures we will all just keep the faith.
Tomorrow I should have an arrival date to Seattle so we can all start planning on our assult on our flying fields as we take over the world in FM mayhem.
Our next adventure is going to be a composite FM. You can bank on it.
For you guys that want your own color scheme, Removing the existing covering isn't going to be difficult. Then you can cover it anyway you want. I have flown the FM in several different colors and the black and yellow is the best for me. And yes, the chicks covering the FM are china dallas cowboy cheerleaders with Brittney Spears (Hit me baby one more time) skirts.
Well, its nice to imagine our final Flying Machine Monsters are only coverd by hot chicks covered in hot oil so as long as I am not asked to provide pictures we will all just keep the faith.
Tomorrow I should have an arrival date to Seattle so we can all start planning on our assult on our flying fields as we take over the world in FM mayhem.
Our next adventure is going to be a composite FM. You can bank on it.
My scratch built is O/S powered as Don's was (Not near as good, although they started making available to us carbs with the needle for the O/S .46 now) (mine has remote needle[:'(])
I have a new Rossi in the box, and was waiting to use it on the Composite, but I think the ARF is going to get the Rossi, I am sick of having it call my name every time I pass the bench
I'll purchase another power plant for the composite FM when we get that far!
Glad to see we are close, and I am working on the wife to let me purchase 2 or 3 right off the bat!
Thanks again for all the hard work and efffort you guys (And East) put into making this ARF a reality!
09-15-2012, 08:37 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
What name did you register under. If your not sure just register again.
ORIGINAL: mrsand
I'm not sure the email was directed to me...but I was checking...my name is Steve (alias Mr.Sand)
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
Yeah Dave, I have you registered. As far as the wing goes, It is not foam. It is a full built up wing.
I'm not sure the email was directed to me...but I was checking...my name is Steve (alias Mr.Sand)
My name is Steve West..I should be on the original list...please confirm
09-16-2012, 06:53 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: flyingmachine
just checking in, I also registered a LONG time ago.
richard hoffman,
Is a composite definite?
I have (3) FM'S now, (2) scratch, (1) foam wing
just checking in, I also registered a LONG time ago.
richard hoffman,
Is a composite definite?
I have (3) FM'S now, (2) scratch, (1) foam wing
Yes we have you registered and we are certainly looking into a composite FM
09-16-2012, 09:55 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Yes Steve (From Sarasota) we have you registered on 8/25 2011
Yes Steve (From Sarasota) we have you registered on 8/25 2011
Mr. Sand
09-27-2012, 04:58 PM
#691
RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
I have built a couple of FM's but have never paid attention to the length of the fuse. The drawings (bought at Don's website) show the length at 40 1/4" but when I measure it, I get a little bit over 39.5". The distance from the nose ring to the leading edge is 7.75". Can anyone tell me if the difference should be towards the nose or the tail? I know it is only 3/4", but it may make a difference! Thanks.
10-07-2012, 09:31 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
So whats the latest?Its been almost a month since?
ORIGINAL: Condor060
Should have new info in the next few days as to shipping dates on the FM guys.
Should have new info in the next few days as to shipping dates on the FM guys.
10-07-2012, 10:09 AM
#693
RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Mañana, guys, mañana.
That's the nature of production, especially with a first batch. Snags and delays. Nothing that you can do about that.
The only way around this is to grab the plans and build one yourself if you need it sooner. Could have done that several times while waiting. Got the plans myself but two projects ahead of it. Wonder which will happen first - your ARF or my plans built project Flying Machine?
That's the nature of production, especially with a first batch. Snags and delays. Nothing that you can do about that.
The only way around this is to grab the plans and build one yourself if you need it sooner. Could have done that several times while waiting. Got the plans myself but two projects ahead of it. Wonder which will happen first - your ARF or my plans built project Flying Machine?
11-04-2012, 09:43 AM
#695
RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Don't know if this thread is still active but thought I would share some pictures of the original kit I recently purchased at a hole-in-the-wall hobby shop. This one looks to be kitted in 1991 and features a foam core wing. I bought it because it reminded me of the Super Hots I had.
11-04-2012, 01:41 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Quikturn you might want to make templates of that kit because you may have the last kit in existence. condor has been talking about a ARF kit release for a very long time but it seems he has fallen short of that for what ever the reason is, just look how far back this thread is dated. But maybe one day it will just pop out and be here.
Does any one know if laser lizard has a laser cut kit of this plane?
Does any one know if laser lizard has a laser cut kit of this plane?
11-04-2012, 04:11 PM
#699
RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Flying88, thanks for the kind words. A good friend of mine already said he wants the kit if I ever decide to sell it. With that said, I'm pretty stoked to have it.
Birdofpray, I'm not sure I have the last one but I will certainly make templates of this kit. I made templates for a Shrike 40 in the past and have a Hammer 40 and Super Pacer that I'll have to copy as well. Are there copyright issues to be concerned with?
Out of curiosity, is there a preference between a foam or built up wing?
Birdofpray, I'm not sure I have the last one but I will certainly make templates of this kit. I made templates for a Shrike 40 in the past and have a Hammer 40 and Super Pacer that I'll have to copy as well. Are there copyright issues to be concerned with?
Out of curiosity, is there a preference between a foam or built up wing?
11-04-2012, 08:31 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
I had the kit with the foam wing, and Iam building a FM from a short kit now. Personaly Ilike the foam wing, and it just seemed more rigid to me. Just my $0.02.
dave
dave