driegel

Several years back a friend and I were just wrapping up a fun afternoon of flying our planes. This guy pulls up to the field and unloads a brand new ARF. He says this is his first plane, we ask if he needs a hand with anything, of course he says no. He fires up the engine and takes off. As soon as he is airborne we know he is in trouble. The plane came back across the runway towards my friend and I in the pit area, close call... Seconds later he is flying towards my car, just misses it. At this point we decide to take cover behind the club shack, of course you know what the next target is! We couldn't believe it... He couldn't keep that plane away from any obstacle. In the end this held true, as he planted the plane right in the middle of a tree near the field. We were actually relieved that the plane was no longer in the air. Felt sorry for his loss, but we did offer assistance. Fortunately the plane was the only thing injured.
In another case, this idiot shows up to the field stoned out of his mind and attempts to fly his Sig Kadet Jr... Managed to get it in the air, but crashed it about 5 feet from where I was standing. Gave the guy a royal b$#@%ing out for that move. Seems a lot of people just don't grasp the fact that the planes are NOT toys, whether it is a 3 lb trainer or something larger.

Dzlstunter

Um...I thought (I KNOW our club has a rule!) that folks weren't supposed to operate our flying meat cutters/sledge hammers if they are under the influence--of whatever! It brings up a good point, though. What do you do if someone shows up in that condition? I make a habit of not arguing with drunks, but the closest you could get to "taking away the keys" would be to confiscate his transmitter--and he might be able to make a case for grand larceny if you weren't able to PROVE he was FUI (flying under the influence)! Maybe this should be a separate thread; I'll leave that to the administrator. Dzl

ReallyUglyStick

My Feedback: (5)

take their transmitter and call the club president. grand larceny or not, i'm not about to let an intoxicated person operate a deadly plane. you could also call the police, public intoxication. it's not safe or funny.

wagas

My club put on a Fly in on Sat the 27. As I was sitting on the ground changing out a prop with my daughter (3 yrs old) who was handing me the tools and my wife was sitting down with our 6 wk old son who was sleeping all the sudden heard WATCH OUT! At the same time a trainer flew right on top of our heads and hit the ground 5 feet away. The guy was buddy boxing with a newbie and was evidently trying to save the airplane. It came so close to us that we could feel the breeze on tops of our heads as it went by. Fellow club members said it was roughly a foot and half away from hitting us. The guy comes over and just say's uh you alright with kind of a nervous laugh. He almost hit another guys airplanes too and seemed to have been more worried about that. I don't know but I'm a little shook up and don't know how to re-act to it. We had no warning at all and that what bugs me the most! I'm just gratefull it didn't hit my family.

wagas

My club put on a Fly in on Sat the 27. As I was sitting on the ground changing out a prop with my daughter (3 yrs old) who was handing me the tools and my wife was sitting down with our 6 wk old son who was sleeping all the sudden heard WATCH OUT! At the same time a trainer flew right on top of our heads and hit the ground 5 feet away. The guy was buddy boxing with a newbie and was evidently trying to save the airplane. It came so close to us that we could feel the breeze on tops of our heads as it went by. Fellow club members said it was roughly a foot and half away from hitting us. The guy comes over and just say's uh you alright with kind of a nervous laugh. He almost hit another guys airplanes too and seemed to have been more worried about that. I don't know but I'm a little shook up and don't know how to re-act to it. We had no warning at all and thats what bugs me the most! I'm just gratefull it didn't hit my family.

hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

Accidents will happen!!!!

That's a favorite saying everywhere you go and there is some truth in it.

It reminds me of a situation I found myself in in the early 70's. I was in the Air Force and stationed in Ankara, Turkey. In Turkey licensed drivers are considered professional and it is a criminal offense if you are the cause of an accident. That truck driver went out of his way to compensate me for backing into my car -- he even had the police officer explain to me that if I officially reported the accident he could go to jail. Turkey has a ZERO TOLERANCE for avoidable accidents.

Each and every AMA chartered club should have a ZERO TOLERANCE for avoidable accidents. Each and every AMA chartered club should have a ZERO TOLERANCE for violating the pilot stations and pits. Every accident and pit violation that can happend at an RC flying field is avoidable and each person that causes an accident or violates the pits should be held accountable PERIOD. I'm not saying the violation should result in a pilot loosing his/her club membership (gross negligence would be an exception.) What I am recommending is that they should have their flying priveledges suspended for an appropriate period of time.

This policy certainly will not end all accidents and pit violations but will definetly reduce them.

BTW, I have been the victim of an accident (34 stitches in my arm) and pit violation and have also be a violator myself. I admit that a lapse in safety precautions on my part caused my airplane to run amok in the pit area -- luckily it didn't hit anyone or their airplanes and committed hari-kari with a bench post.

flyordie

My Feedback: (2)

Obviously we are all gluttens for punishment. Besides, I f r/c flyiing was completely safe, It probably would'nt be sooo much fun.!!!!!!!!! The trick is to see who's flyiing , assess their skill level and, if you feel the need , GET THE HECK OUT OF DODGE till it's safe!!!!!!!!!!!

MiL

danger seems to be a common element in many of the things i enjoy...

I always say it aint fun if you can't get killed doing it

Jasman

My Feedback: (37)

I was filming a giant scale meet in PA a few years ago and witnessed the crash of a very large Cub. After listening to the pilot discuss the crash with a few locals, it was learned that at that particular field there a problem with his frequency. He was quite angry.
I did not realize how serious the situation could have been until I got home and looked at the video. The big Cub had crashed were a young kid was standing a few seconds earlier

RCdad29

My 9 year old daughter was practicing her low speed approaches while buddy boxing with her instructor at the end of the season last year. The plane went down in a slow left turn and drilled into the soft mud. There was one plane in the air besides hers when she crashed, and he landed a few moments after she drilled in. We announced "MAN ON THE FIELD!" and went to retrieve her plane. While we were out extracting the wreckage from the mud and corn stalks, some idiots fire up their "hot" planes and decide to play tag with one another over our heads. We weren't lolly gagging out there. We had only been on the field a couple minutes, and had almost picked up all the pieces when I realized why the engine noise was getting so loud. These morons were flying WELL outside the pattern, coming in hot over the corn stalks, and then dropping toward the deck right over top of us! We were well within view and waved and shouted to these cranially challenged primates. This only seemed to egg them on.

They passed over twice before I told my daughter to drop everything she was holding and head straight for the clubhouse! Running, and crying tears of fear and grief for her wrecked plane, she made it safely back. She was VERY upset, which only enraged me as these guys seemed to care not. Her instructor and I picked up everything we could find and quickly made our way back in. I was so FURIOUS I couldn't even talk to the one idiot who was the greater offender. I've since come to find out no one goes out on the field when he goes up, and they come in for the day when they see him pull in.

The problem with the more serious stuff is that our field resides in a state park. All you need to fly is AMA (for the insurance) and a valid park pass. Most of the fliers are from a local club (which maintains the field out of their treasury), but many just use the facility like a toilet. If you were to report an incident to the ranger, we're just as likely to lose the field after the infraction has been addressed as not. There's a new "Green" steering committee for the state parks, and they're just looking for an excuse to ax us because we border wetlands. There isn't another suitable facility anywhere nearby.

I got my daughter into the hobby because of her interest, and I'm grateful as it has allowed us to spend wonderful times together on and off the field. I have recently decided to fly R/C as well and have since joined the AMA myself. I'm hoping the hobby proves a relaxing, stress relieving pastime. However, I'll dump the whole caboodle if I have to shelve a days flying every time this yahoo or his ilk light a glo plug.

If there was some means of reporting an individual who was such a severe safety hazard to the AMA, then maybe there would be a mechanism to revoke his AMA membership after sufficient complaints and review processes. No AMA, no flying at our field. I've asked around, but no response yet. I'd hate to ruin it for everyone else by having to report it to the state park ranger should it happen again, most everyone are PERFECT ladies and gentlemen, but I'm not going to risk our safety or wait for him to hurt someone else either.

We've got a club "safety guy" now who's supposed to address the issue in club meetings and the club newsletter, but we've yet to implement an official field marshal program. We'll see how it goes....

And we all scratch our head wondering why more young folk don't take up the hobby.

I'll try to keep you posted.

-K.

wbrian

RCDAD I hate stories about kids in danger. It’s one thing to risk ourselves but our kids – well thats a different story. Speaking of accidents and children, Chuck Gadd wrote the following a while ago. It has stuck in my head ever since.

“I headed out to the flying field on Sunday, late afternoon. The club had a fun-fly all day Saturday, and ending Sunday afternoon. As I drove up, I saw a fire truck, and an ambulance in the parking lot. According to a club member, there had been an accident, and a plane flown by an experienced club member (30 years flying) had gone out of control, and hit a kid who was in the playground area. The plane reportedly was going around 90 mph when it hit the kid (around 12 year old..) in the leg. Only known injury was a broken leg. Response from the local rescue units was said to be excellent. Paramedics on scene very quickly.

The spectator area/ playground is at least a hundred feet from the runway, and no flying is allowed to take place behind the runway. I didn't think it was appropriate to ask more questions at that time, so I'm not sure as to the cause of the crash”

Mluvara

My Feedback: (10)

Hi all,
I think the way fields are layed out plays a big part in safety, but NOT all of it. Common sense is the biggest part in my mind. Our club's pit area is set well back from the runway. We also have safety fences at the edge of the runway which stop out of control aircraft from careening into the pilots.

See picture below for aerial view.

Mluvara

My Feedback: (10)

Another photo.

Traxxas_Tech

My Feedback: (22)

Mluvara, Thats a great looking field, I'm jealous! I especially like the taxiways!

RCdad29

Blackie, by the number of typographical errors in your post I'm assuming you wrote your message in heated haste. Let me ASSURE you that my childrens safety is MY #1 priority!

The only reason we went on the field was assurance from her instructor (a 50 year veteran flyer and founding president of this fields very old club), and several other members, that what we were doing was safe. I had already read all the AMA, club, and field rules, and there should have been no problem with what we were doing.

Again, it's the few bad apples who ruin it for everyone that need to be reigned in. Responsibility for this infraction lies SOLELY on their shoulders. Your suggestion is akin to saying that you shouldn't allow your children in your car with you because even though you've taken every reasonable precaution to prevent it, an accident could still happen and they could get hurt. Should we all therefore sit at home?

As I said, my childrens wellfare is my chief concern. My daughter is a 3 year cancer survivor and her younger brother is the bone marrow doner who saved her life from Leukemia. Having gone through all that, YOU can ONLY imagine how livid I was, and why I kept physical proximity to this idiot to a minimum after the incident.

I think I stated my position very well when I said in my original post we'd bag the whole hobby if there were risk of this happening again.

This statement isn't pointed at you, but rather the kind of people like the idiot I refer to in my original post. Civility, manners, politeness, kindness, and common sense are all in too short supply these days. Please, lets lay the accountability where it truly belongs. At the feet of those who believe they are above the rules.

Thanks,
-Kent. (Dismounting from Soap Box)

wbrian

Truly a sad day!!!

Tucson Citizen
May 20, 2002
A man flying his radio-controlled airplane near the Pima County Fairgrounds died Saturday after it flew into his chest.
Roger Wallace, 60, was flying the plane when he turned toward the sun and lost sight of it, said Deputy Nicole Feldt, Pima County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman.
Feldt said the plane, which weighs nearly seven pounds and has a wingspan of four to five feet, then struck Wallace.
Wallace, a member of the Southern Arizona Modelers Club and former owner of an auto parts store, lived in the 9400 block of East 26th Street, she said. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
The accident occurred around 9:30 a.m. near South Houghton and East Dawn roads, Feldt said. She said a few people performed CPR on Wallace while waiting for paramedics.
Jerry Knebel, the club's president, was flying his plane with other members when the accident occurred. Knebel said he got blankets from his car to help.
"It was a sad, tragic accident," Knebel said. He said Wallace had been a member for three years.
"It took a long time for 911 to get through. Two members were on cell phones, trying to get the operators to cooperate, because they didn't know where Dawn Road was," he said. "The response time was 35 minutes, but once the medics arrived, they did a fantastic job."

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

our field is known to the air ambulance, and we do have a map reffrence and GPS number, there was talk of this being printed on the peg board, but i've not seen it yet.
we had a member die recently with a heart attack on the field, the map and gps thing has come after that, i might chase this up now im reminded of it

jmulder

My Feedback: (6)

Close call? I wont even get started. I sure have been having fun in my backyard with my IFO though.........Heck i just might sell everything I have and go electric...

Flying Scotsman

Every incident I have read in this thread is sad and I agree with the comments regarding common sense and training (or the lack of it). I am heavily into my other hobby (Scuba) and have spent $$$$ and years of training to get to my current level, Divemaster & I intend to carry onto the next step of the ladder, Instructor. In the sport of scuba, I read about incidents / accidents (and sometimes fatalities) through out the year. After every accident, the diving regulatory bodies investigate everything. The usual outcome is a) lack of training / experience b) poorly maintained equipment c) high jinks - and not necessary in that order. Have you noticed that throughout this thread we have the same root causes of accidents / incidents in RC?

It seems that in every dangerous hobby / sport (yes, RC is dangerous), we are going to have accidents and IMHO the only way we can minimize these is to be more authoritarian at the RC field without losing the fun of it all - we can still have fun in being serious. In diving for example, for new / unknown divers to any club, we question everything (unfamiliar equipment, even new equipment to ensure the user and his buddy knows how it works), check log books to see how long between dives (I keep a log book for diving and for EVERY RC flight), question certs (qualification cards - maybe we should introduce a mandatory test before flying solo) however we still try to make every one feel at ease...I know we can't all be psychologists but we can certainly more vigilant, just by taking a friendly interest in who we let fly at our club. I'm sorry to say, but as a newbie, I would say only 70% of the people I have flown with are actually friendly / fun to be around with and will take an interest in your questions / queries / planes - the other 30% I have come across will reply with one word sentences or you can hear them mumble about each other behind one another's backs; "I'm too good for to be answering that sort of question", "that plane sucks", "it's his responsibility if he crashes" Doh, try saying that after he / she has just hit you in the chest with his trainer. The dinosaur attitude just pisses me off and pisses off probably every other "will I join this club or not" group :angry: GGrrrrrr, and if you don't believe me then just check some of the replies in this forum! Around 90% of the folks I dive with or help train are 100% serious in their sport and with whom I will become good friends (and there is a tenfold more divers than flyer's) - maybe because divers realize that our lives / limbs / equipment / families may depend on our fellow divers as well being dependent on ourselves. The other 10% usually don't hang around long enough to bother with.

My 2 pence / cents worth....depends on which side of the pond you come from!

I can't wait to read the replies from the 30% of the unfriendly bunch!

Happy Flying!

J roc

This has been a very interesting thread for me to read and now I want to take a more proactive role in promoting safety at our field. We can all learn from these experiences. I always felt that it would be that 40 pound turbine loaded with kerosene or one of those tork rolling TOC planes that would really hurt someone. But the opposite seems to be true as most are injured by inexperienced pilots with smaller trainer type planes.
It has been mandetory at our field to have a spotter only during fun flies but now I think we should have them always if they are available. It seems that alot of these accidents could have been prevented if the pilot had someone watching his back.
I also think that any new flier showing up at the field should have to prove himself competent before flying solo.
People should also have there vision corrected to 20/20 or better.
I could go on but you get the picture.
Our club has been lucky as we have had a lot of close calls alot of prop bitten fingers etc, but nothing major.
Our club flies near a prison where we are under scrutiny from guards thinking we may be dropping drugs in the yard and also we fly near a major highway(behind our parking lot).
Our club , like many others really cant afford any big mishaps.

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

What I'm getting out of the last several responses is a general sensus that I totally agree with. Which in a nut-shell, says....WE HAVE TO BE SERIOUS HERE TO AVOID PROBLEMS!!. There are so many out there that don't have a clue how to take this hobby serious while having fun at the same time. I've heard the attitude about crashes(yes we know they happen), when someone remarks "it doesn't matter, I'm going to crash it anyways" or "I can just go buy another one", and attitudes like that. It irks me(erks, urks, ......geez,,,it pisses me off) because that attitude doesn't come remotely close to safe operations.

Twice now in a month(by same person), I've been out flying, and been severely startled(to say the least) when someone's plane has gotten uncomfortably close(and I'm on the flightline the first time). No warnings, no nothing. After landing, and chatting with the guy, I found out he was taking a trainer on a maiden voyage. He didn't ever say a word to me...we were the only 2 at the field at the time. Could he have at least waited, or said it's first flight, and I would've gladly waited. And to top it off(this makes sense too), he's a barely capable pilot, barely as I' found out AFTER the first instance. I always ask if someone needs help, and I did ask him also, before he flew, he confidently said "No, I'm OK". With that I proceeded to fly, as he wasn't yet ready. When my flight was near an end, and I heard him start his engine, I set-up for landing. Next thing I'm hearing is an OS46 full throttle, and glance over, and his plane is doing loops 10 feet from me. Tight loops.. I would guess the thing did 10 of these until he got it under control. I'm walking backwards into the pits, while flying my Sukhoi(which is handful in best case), and I'm standing in the middle of the pits setting up my landing, shaking like a leaf.
First, this is a trainer, first flight, why someone would even need to think full throttle is first clue, second, if I were told that was first flight, I would gladly let him have free-air, no prob.
We "communicated" after this was all said and done, and I got my message across boldly. So boldly the next time he was out with his plane, he had me test and trim before he took the sticks. All was well at that point, until he tried again on his own. Again, he was having trouble setting up for landing, and overflying severely, I was on flight line this time too. Only there were several witnesses, and needless to say, he's on "watch" at this point, until his skill improves enough to be consistent. I won't mention names at all, but he's in a position that he should at least be very aware of safety factors involved.

I'm fully aware there are risks in this hobby. When we get into car to get to field the risk goes up. When we pull into parking lot risk goes up a little higher. When we step out of car, risk increases more. When we setup and start engine, risk is peaking. When on the flight line, it's highest, as our attention is diverted to our own flying things, and it's very hard to watch someone else fly, while flying our own plane, as we should all be responsible for ourselves, and for our own equipment.

Enough ranting from me. I hope those that need to read this thread read it. I know I need to read it, and read it, and read it again. I think what I learned is I should've let him fly first, to see how he did, and never take anyone at thier word that they are OK with the planes, let them prove it. And I need to remember this so if anyone questions me, I'm ready to provide answers and proof also.

Flying Scotsman

I wish there were others with the same attitude at the flying field as you!

I know we have to watch some newbies and I'll happily admit at any airfield that I am a newbie - I've only 4 months flying time. However, the older, so called elitest flyers are the others to really watch out for; doing aerobatics or hovers 30 ft above the runway, while the newbie here (me) is ready to come in but is very nervous watching both my own plane on its approach and the elitest carrying on although he is only one on the flight station - even after calling load and clear "Coming In" - he must have heard me because he mumbled "Ok" but continued doing what he was doing until my plane was at the end of the runway! Now, I wait patiently for empty air before I start her up and get her flying.

I would like to think that although I am a newbie, I take everything abut R/C seriously - this is something my instructor in New Orleans instilled into me (<--- a hint for all instructors out there as the trainee learns his bad and good habits from their immediate peers).

Happy Flying!

RCdad29

Here's the update I promised-

I've been out to the field several times this spring while waiting for the rebuilding of my daughter's plane to be completed. Several times out at the field I've seen the "culprit" from last fall.

What I've noted is that we now have a "Field Supervisor" out every day, and several more on some weekend days. On the days I observed the "culprit" flying, several things were evident.

Most of the other club members seem to generally avoid this individual off the field as well as on. Apparently he's a bit of a hothead.

When's he's fueling his plane and obviously getting ready to fly, most guys bring their planes in, and others who were waiting to go up decide to wait until he comes back in (probably VERY wise).

The field supervisor(s) have gotten into the habit of taking up the spotters position at the flight line for this guy and are now informing him of his proximity to other planes, his position in the pattern, etc. that he had previously been ignoring. Hopefully he'll get the message; but I think this is going to be an old dog and new tricks situation.

I've been informed by senior club members that those that make habitual safety infractions (such as the ones this guy makes) will not be tolerated. They'll take a 3 stikes & yer' out postion unless the infraction is so grievous that it warrants more immediate action. Apparently they do have the ability to ground individuals and have agreed to do so, rather than risk an injury or worse. We could lose our field if things got ugly, but apparently they've made the right choice in deciding that flying somewhere else is less important than keeping a plane from flying INTO somebody.
I am very impressed with the way our club officials have responded to this very difficult challenge.

I've seen several parents bring their children by the field "scoping it out". I think they're more comfortable, and more likely to let their children get into the hobby, when they see a high level of safety consciousness, and general courteousness.

Now for the good news!
My daughter's instructor took about an hour going over the repairs I made to her plane and declared it fit for a shakedown run. He took it up and noted only minor trim adjustments needed be made.

My daughter took her turn at the sticks for two flights, and although a bit rusty from having the winter off, he stated she hadn't forgotten a thing. He surmised she'll be soloing by July! I'm so excited for her. As long as things stay safe, we'll keep going out and having a great time!! I'm rebuilding an old trainer for myself and have decided to give it a whirl.

One slightly off-topic post script i'd like to make-
Several have made mention about the importance of getting younger members into the hobby. I'd like to throw out a couple suggestions here that help to create a kid friendly atmosphere:

Please, no smoking. There's fuel and combustibles everywhere around a flying field, and don't even get me started on secondhand smoke.

I realize that for many, the field represents a place where you get to "let your hair" down a bit and relax from a hectic week. Your pals are there and you don't have to be "Politically Correct" so much as at work or home. Realize that the young ones are out and about the field and are more likely than not to hear some "choice words" or "colorful metaphors". This past weekend one old crow pulled his chair right up next to us in the prep area, lit up to start chain smoking, and started cussing his head off. I asked him to move by making some excuse about our fuel. Some of the other club members figured out what was going on and motioned for him to come over to their table and join them (for which I was greatly appreciative).

Todays kids have grown up with different expectations and values instilled. If you want them to come fly, provide a situation and location where the parents will feel their kids are safe, the kids feel welcome, and there are good mentors and examples to be had.

Thanks,
-K.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

your "hothead" sounds like ours, i hate to fly when he is, i'd rather sit in the pits and watch him doing loops over the patch towards the patch so i can avoid him if he comes into the pits.... again. I got shouted at for that one for telling him ( in no uncertain terms ) not to do it again.
he also blew his top because me and a fellow flyer questioned a repair that seamed to only be cross weave tape, whice we know to let go in the sun. i swear if you guys checked his plane for airworthness you wouldnt let any of his fly. sadly, we do and i've given up saying anything to him coz he gets just a little OTT in his protest

Blackie

A couple of minor situations arose at the field I fly in. The first situation was an experienced pilot had arrived at our field with a new GP tri wing ARF. He grabbed a spot in the pits and started setting up. He and I were sharing the same channel number in which was not a problem, the problem was that he had aimed his plane toward the sitting area in the pits a slight angle away from the rest of us but still toward the pits, then proceeded to start it. I thought to myself that this was very unsafe but how do you tell a person that he is being unsafe without hitting a nerve. Our safety officer was on the flight line with his bird in the air so I pointed it out to one of our board members, a long term and more experienced pilot them myself, his reaction was that he was not the safety officer and started to walk away, seeing that the safety officer was not going to be in anytime soon he decided to go ahead and make the unsafe pilot aware of his actions. The second situation; Later on I was on the flight line with my edge in the air and another more experienced pilot walks up to the flight line taxi's his his scratch built out onto the runway and proceeds to take off "No warning! I'm coming out". Shortly I landed but not without calling it first and taxied off the runway, killed my engine and walked up to the pilot, with a pleasing voice I say "Maybe I didn't hear you or maybe you forgot to mention that you were coming out". His response was of a friendly nature and my point made it across.

The moral here is that we older more experienced pilots sometimes unknowingly forget the safety concerns and sometimes need to be reminded.

Randy