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asking stunt pilots

Old 10-05-2003, 11:59 PM
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tipo750
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Default asking stunt pilots

I flew control line for years as a kid before I began training and flying R/C and moving into pattern flying. The biggest UC plane I had was powered by the OS .40. My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? The maneuvers would be bigger and more graceful with the appearance of flying more slowly.
Old 10-06-2003, 12:30 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Eric:

How heavy are you?
How strong are you?
How's your stamina?
Why the questions?

Consider the line pull on your monster.

Bill.
Old 10-06-2003, 01:59 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Back in the very old days some did that, using the U-Reely control handle.[&:]

Problem today is that AMA rules demand shorter lines for contest purposes and that is what sets the standards.

In addition, it would take a big model with lots of Pull-Out set in to lift those lines at T.O. Then when it got going, so would you!

Hey W. robinson, you sent me a private message yesterday. A reg. email came in also. I answered the reg. email and just deleted the private RCU mail. Then the reg. email bounced. The item in question is in the AMA forum with topic words re-arranged, but same old P&M and just searching for sympathy.

Hope you read this.
Old 10-06-2003, 02:38 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Eric:

I have flown 80' lines. Not really worth the effort. And as I said to begin with, line pull. And Hossfly agreed.

Horace:

I did read it. My note to you was in re:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1181193

saying I didn't understand the problem.

You do need to remember, Hoss old man, that one man's P&M is another man's campaign statement. And since I don't have a program I can't tell the players apart in D8, whether they're yours, Jim Branaum's, or Sandy Frank's. I have enough to worry about here in D5 without getting into D8 also.

Thanks.

Bill.

Old 10-06-2003, 06:32 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

ORIGINAL: tipo750

...My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? ...
Actually, you could do this for fun flying on your own site. The problem comes in when you want to compete at a contest. I think the current limits are 70' lines and .80 engine.
One flyer (Dan Banjok) has a 2X Flite streak with a over limit engine that he flys as a fun demo. It pulls so hard that he has to throttle it back for part of the flight to rest. I think he uses .021 braided lines.

Stunt these days is taking several paths. One is to recreate planes from before 1953. Even a spark ignition class. Fun is where you find it

George
Old 10-06-2003, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

ORIGINAL: tipo750
I flew control line for years as a kid before I began training and flying R/C and moving into pattern flying. The biggest UC plane I had was powered by the OS .40. My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? The maneuvers would be bigger and more graceful with the appearance of flying more slowly.
Actually, I am considering your remark about "Genesis". Its creator Bob Hunt went on to become world champion stunt pilot. He later tried RC Pattern and was somewhere in the top ten (I think) but decided to go back to control line because he liked the feedback you get with a CLPA (stunt) plane. Bob is now the "Aeromodeling Editor" for Model Aviation (AMA) magazine and runs the "Modeling Spoken Here" column. If you check that column you can see the Caprice he is now flying.
Some folks fly more than one type model.

George
Old 10-06-2003, 10:33 PM
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tipo750
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Wow, he's changed a lot... I remember a guy with dark curly hair and dark mustache. I only brought up that particular model because it was the first time I saw real stunt flying in person... the plane has stuck in my head ever since. I am considering getting into stunt and pattern at the same time, and since bigger planes fly better, I was wanting to know how far to push the size.
Old 10-06-2003, 11:03 PM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

I think the rules are actually 70 feet maximum length from the handle to the centerline on the plane. I could be remembering wrong though.
Old 10-07-2003, 12:41 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Back in my youth I once built a stunter that was 6 foot span with a Taipan .61 to use in competitions. I'm not all that big and in overheads I'd only have one foot barely touching the ground. It was a monster but could have been OK if I'd known more about CG placement. But with a properly sorted model for fun flying there's no real reason why it wouldn't work although 100 foot lines are getting a bit long

That said, I tend to fly larger than usual stunters (well I'm in Australia so I don't have to copy anyone else) at around 830 sq inches. This has worked beautifully, even with an ST G51 for power, at a weight of 59 ounces.
Old 10-07-2003, 07:48 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

The first "Monster" plane I saw was a friend with a plane he had designed. It had a constant chord wing (which he had added to) and sported a Forster 99 (on glow) and two Fox .35's. He did it as a lark. He could fly the pattern with it but it was a hand full. That was in about 1957.

George
Old 10-07-2003, 08:57 AM
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Default Bad True Story....

Hey Guys:

Back in 1961 there was an airforce Seargent Snooks stationed in Warner Robins, Georgia who flew control line with the Macon Propdusters. He had a scratchbuilt 4 engine Globemaster transport with bolt on wing tips. Powered by 4 'redhead' McCoy .35s. He flew it on 70 ft. 7 strand braided stainless lines with a HOTROCK handle.
Running them solid '4 cycle' He had to lean back to hang onto it. Everyone kept telling him that if he was intent on flying that plane to get a U-Reely and ditch that POS handle.

One Sunday while he was flying it the the unthinkables happened; Those McCoys leaned out and it started pulling. That garbage handle broke and broke two of his fingers as the center cable came out of his hand.

The Globemaster looked and sounded like the real thing as it gracefully arced up and out into a sycamore treetop. My mother was sitting in a lawn chair under the tree.
Several of the guys scaled the tree and 'ragged' the running engines and cut the remains of the plane down with wire cutters.

You gonna fly big control line? GET A U-REELY AND SAFETY STRAP. Take great care of your lines and keep them kink free.

TRUE STORY
[&:]
Old 10-07-2003, 11:54 AM
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Hossfly
 
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

ORIGINAL: Elwyn

I think the rules are actually 70 feet maximum length from the handle to the centerline on the plane. I could be remembering wrong though.

Elwyn, you remember very well.

AMA for CL scale, speed, and stunt, the "Rule-Book" does say the 70' is maximum length.
However not all flying needs to be AMA competition rules.

The last several years I flew competition stunt, I liked my GA rebuilt ST 40 and my own well broken-in Fox .40. Both were excellent stunt engines using Fox 5%N / 29% castor fuel.
However at the '71 NATs I let the Testor man persuade me to use the new about to be released McCoy gray case 40. That is a whole 'nother funny story and lines were not a part of my final chance to place at the NATs.[:@][:'(][&o][]

I flew a highly modified Thunderbird for competition until I got back to TX, then most meets in the San Antonio area were judged by GA. I started flying a Nobler with cosmetic changes. Score went "UP".
I flew my own designs in last several years of CL Stunt up in Chicago area. I liked 66' lines which kind of suited my own reaction and times. I do miss CL Stunt and have been looking at my old plans for that MIG I flew back then. Maybe???
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Old 10-08-2003, 12:36 AM
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Default RE: Bad True Story....

Let's make very certain everyone knows better than to accept the idea of a "U-Reely" as a "SAFE" alternative to an EZ-Just! The brake didn't always engage correctly, and any of them still around are now so old that the brake probably is less dependable than it ever was! [] For a heavy load such as the C-124's that were popular multi- engine scale models, a Brodak Acu-Just is very sturdy, as is the overlarge RSM CL handle.

The original WOODEN EZ-Justs, as well as the more recently made wooden replicas that Riley was selling, would all have been more than adequately sturdy.


Kiwi

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Old 10-08-2003, 01:51 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Kiwi:

If you have a complete U-Reely, there is a crossbolt safety that blocks the crank, and the brake is not holding the line drum at all when the crossbolt is used.

And what's more, I like my E-Z Just standard handle and my E-Z Just "Hot Rock" handle too. Both red plastic.

For general sporty flying I like the U-Barrely, but its weight is a bit much when I'm trying to be precise. And in addition, with the E-Z Just you can center the handle, the U-Reely has no adjustment for uneven lines. Been my experience that when the lines are trimmed at, say 60' they are uneven at 50' and 70' leaving you holding the handle pointed up or down to compensate.

Bill.
Old 10-08-2003, 02:04 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

All the "U-Reely's" I had all had the locking pin that hit the handle , The early ones were a retro-fit. I had a Jetco Mooney Mite that I tried to fly on a 100 ft lines but discovered that when the lines were all out one got shorter or longer & caused instant re-kitting. Those hold your plane by the wing tip & let out the lines was always good for a laugh with new guys, either got dizzy & fell over or pulled the bell crank out through the wing . Good memories? MAX H.
Old 10-08-2003, 02:27 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Max:

I learned, when doing the short length launch and tapping the brake in flight, that one should look at the line reel when the lines were getting out there. If you went to the max (nothing personal) length and came up on the end it was indeed instant full up or full down. As you said - toothpick time.

Going to have to get my U-Barely (control it) out and check, think I have 70' 0.018" lines on it.

Bill.
Old 10-08-2003, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

Been there, done that. The plane was repairable. Retired the U-Reely.
Still have a couple of EZ-Justs. The large one is OK but the "Hot Rock" is very worn. Been thinking of repairing it for nostalgia's sake.
Tom Morris' handle is my handle of choice these days.

George
Old 10-08-2003, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

The EZ-Just Hot Rock handles weren't fragile in my own usage, but when autos run over them while pitting in a parking lot (happened twice), they shatter completely. My hand is about 3/8" too wide in the grip for a Hot Rock to be comfortable. The GMA "Magnum" handle fits me nicely, as does the the GRS import.

The bigger EZ-Just is just way too big, though. Only one EZ-Just (Hot Rock) lasted long enough in service to need a new cable, and at the same time, needed a bushing to fill in where the cable had worn the hole into a large, oval shape. I used a pair of slot car axle bearings!





Kiwi

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Old 10-08-2003, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

back in the '80s flying models had an article and pics of a double size ringmaster with an OS 1.08 fsr for power. don't recall the line length but i think they were long.

dave
Old 10-08-2003, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

ORIGINAL: Kiwi

...needed a bushing to fill in where the cable had worn the hole into a large, oval shape. I used a pair of slot car axle bearings!




Kiwi

**
Good fix Kiwi. That's what mine needs. Thanks, I'll check it out.

George
Old 10-08-2003, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

OK guys:

At least with the U-Reely my lines weren't laying on the ground just begging for a kink. Didn't need to keep the reel in my pocket for put-up either. Just punch the lock, thumb the brake lever down and reel in right after flight. Never damaged a pair of lines with it. Used same ones up till 1970, when I gave all my stuff to my best freind. Definitely my handle of choice.

Old 10-08-2003, 08:18 PM
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Elwyn
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

back in the '80s flying models had an article and pics of a double size ringmaster with an OS 1.08 fsr for power. don't recall the line length but i think they were long.

I think this was probably George Guyados(sp?) of the Garden State Circle Burners. I saw a photo of it once where he was standing next to it balancing the plane on a wingtip. The other wingtip reached quite a bit higher than the pilot.
Old 10-09-2003, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: asking stunt pilots

You'd have to see Dan Banjock fly his scaled up Flightstreak. It is absolutely amazing, I think he leaves the grond during wingovers and overhead 8's. Don't remember any of the particulars, but its a monster and I think he flys it on 90' lines. By the way, it's throttled and will slows it down and takes breaks during flights.

Randy

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