How much is to much weight on the outside wing tip. I dont want it flipping over toward me in flight and i dont want it to heavy on the outside either. How would I know with out first test flying the plane.

Bean:

I have never known any particular "Formula" for determining tip weight - too many variables.

My generality is that if I hold the fuselage and it rries to fall to the outboard side, but not so much that I can't hold it with the one hand, it's in the ball park.

The tip weight is not supposed to be the thing that keeps the plane from coming in on you. It is just to be a counterbalance to the weight of the wires on the inboard wing.

To keep the plane out the engine is set with a little out thrust sometimes, rudder offset is used on almost all c/l planes. Another is having the inboard wing a little bit bigger than the outboard, and if the plane has flaps then differential, with the inboard flap having more travel than the outboard tends all by itself to turn the plane out of the circle in any maneuver.

Hope this answers a question or two, if it raises any feel free to ask.

Bill.

ah- remember when the correct amount of weight was the empty glue tube it took to build it??

I do remember when the empty glue tube was listed in the instructions. The instructions for this one say......Use 6 inches of solder!...but it doesn't say what size solder to use.....figure that one out.

Bean:

Most likely means the old standard 1/8" wire solder.

Bill.

For a model that won't be doing any violent manoeuvres the tip weight isn't critical. In effect you just need enough to balance the weight of the lines (plus a little just to be on the safe side). Remember though that the weight of the lines is held equally between the model and your hand. About 1 ounce should be sufficient and if you use the stick on wheel balance weights then you can play around with the weights until you find something you're happy with then glue them permanently to the wing. With more weight than really necessary the model will just fly around with the outside wing low all the time. All of this of course assumes there's no warps in the wing and if it uses flaps then they're perfectly aligned.

I'm sure they mean the 1/8 plumbing solder. 6 inches of the thin electronics stuff doesn't weigh much at all.

I've always used pennys. Since I'm in Canada I bring all your US pennies home so I'm not defacing my own currency, which is a crime after all.... But if I take my model back to the US will they arrest me at the border?

That's it, no more transparent coverings for ME. No way I want to spend time in the hoosegow for gluing pennies into my wing tips...

PS: Almost forgot. If it's critical to your own sensibilities that your model fly dead even with the lines then have a buddy watch your model to report on it's attitude and adjust it so the model is dead level when you're flying shoulder high.

Build in a tip weight box so that you can adjust the weight as needed. Changes in line length, engine offset, leadout position IF you put that ability in, prop size, many things will affect how much tip weight goes in the box. During hard inside manuevers, if you see the top side of the outboard wing, you need a little more weight. See the bottom, take a little out.

3/4 to an ounce for the average 35 size bird on 60' center 15's.

I have used pennies, which I think run 9 to the oz. but I have gone to to BB's because I can make weight changes in smaller increments. Generally I do build in an adjustable weight box. One time I didn't and got too much weight in the outside wing. The airplane would hinge badly on square corners, so I added weight to the inside wing until I got the hinging down to a very small amount. Not an optimum solution.

Jim

I was wondering about the weight differences using dacron line or wire line. Ive got a good off set on the rudder. I did make a weight box in the wing tip and im trying different amounts of lead weights to make the adjustments. It seems to be about right with 1/2 to 5/8 of weight. The only thing about the box is it will be covered with tissue when i finish the wing. Sharp knife and a patch will work if i need to get back into it...I have used nickles and quarters in the past. Just glue them on the bottom of the wing and called it good. This is not a real small plane with just a wing and a sheet fuslage. Its all stick and tissue built up fuslage and wing, and different than anything ive built before. I have put a lot of hours into it and i want to get it right. Ive got an old combat cat to build and it calls for an ounce of weight on the wing tip, but its a different beast altogether.

JumpingBean,
Add a couple of pennies and see if the outboard wing drops if you support it by the fuselage center. If you really want accuracy you will need to keep that weight box accessible.
The difference in flying between Dacron and wire is more drag than weight. The wire has much less drag.
Beware of lots of engine and rudder offset. This will cause more pull sometimes but when the power cuts, what do you do then. The ideal situation IMHO is to have little or no offset on either. Remember you are already pulling on the plane when it tries to fly straight.
Good luck with it.

George

I’ve been reading quite a few of these post on counter weights. Never knew using legal tender was a no no. In today’s market it’s pretty worthless any way. Okay back to my question Lots of Y-tube U Control videos and only Sluge ever commented on Counter weights. And their was a lot on that wing. More than an ounce! I started flying when I was nine. Built a Sterling Ring Master when I was 13 and flew it at McCord AFB.lots of AF personnel flew U Control And a few gave me some really good pointers. I used and still have my Fox 35 Stunt and I think I was using 58 ft lines. Today I-am using 60 ft and I measure it from the bell crank to the Control handle. I am flying a Veco Chief with basicly the same control system. I want to build the Flying Fool. It’s a bi plane top wing is quite a bit larger than the lower wing. The lead outs come out at mid fuselage and route thru the left wing strut. It’s going to be a scratch build, I had the plans and templates enlarged at the Fed X kinkos. No info on counter weight location. Do I place the weights on the right strut or the top wing? Planning on 65 ft lines 18, plane has no flaps. Power is 50 OS. AJ

Ben doing a lot of reading and looking at the Higley book on weight an balance. And bi planes. Went to Stunt Hanger and their is quite a bit of info on this topic.and it all falls into the infamous pilot point and you get several points of the proper way and it all differs, nothing is the same! Largely depends on the wing area and weight location and length of the lines and diameter of your cables. Some feel you must include the control handle hard point, cable leads, it all reflects. Don’t really understand that. And the placing of weights in different locations, and not adding it at the farthest point. All very confusing but quite possible when considering the folcrum. AJ

I don't care if you use legal tender or not. Enough is lost or destroyed or used in science experiments not to mention the devaluation of it by creating more money out of thin air. That being said it DOES still have a value where as any trip to your local tire shop will produce for you pounds of used tire weights that are worthless and have to be recycled at cost plus are far denser then pocket change.

Interesting Clean! Ya I guess that’s another solution, I read a lot and learn different aspects of what other flyers do and say. Lately I have been using a weight box. Because I crash on the average of maybe once in five flights. That inverted stuff and doing figure eights. Being 77 do not help. But I check that weight stuff every time I repair. Nose to Tail and wing tip to wing tip. I just don’t melt tire weights you know they use lots of tin in tire weights. I drill my half ounce weights. To secure them in the weight box. A weight box will weigh about 0.04 Oz if you use ply. Never used Balsa. Ju,st did a big repair on my Veco Chief, got six stitches in my right thumb really sore. Will not be flying for a while.AJ

Well been working on my Super Ringmaster. Wing is on the fuselage, and looking at what my next assembly step will be. The control rod and bell crank assembled. Used a small piece of heat shrink and a drop of 3 in one oil. On the bell crank. It moves really smooth. Waiting on my engine drill mount to arrive. I also glued in my engine mounts. The nose area and nose engine block is tapered. To fit a two inch spinner. Coated the wood and Balsa with ammonia. Using clamps to adjust that out. The Fox 35 mount is going to be tight and mounting the blind nuts looks like an issue in that rail if I am going to can’t the engine two degrees right as the instructions I advise you to do. Kinda wonder if their design was test flown two large nuts came in the kit for right wing counter weights they equal one ounce. As I mentioned before I installed a weight box in the right wing W-10 rib. It weights 0.04 ounce. First flight is going to be interestingAJ.

Well here we are Clean 2024 day two. Down with the Christmas stuff, and on with the year. Going to be interesting. Started out with losing one of my Pensions, and so it goes in 2024. My only resolve will be the Circle. And surviving. That’s my happy place, not much,but it’s real and it’s there. AJ

Grandson video'd my flying into the new year. Went and fly RC on the 1st. Went to go home, picked up my just unfueled and run dry/lubed plane and fuel came running out. Darn RC plastic tank's fuel bung had come unscrewed and was letting the fuel out all over inside. Tightened that puppy back up. Cornstarch is sucking up the fuel. Gotta remember to put a drain hole in the fuel bay. It had a coat of epoxy but the fuel was doing the old Titanic trick and flowing over the bulkheads.

Grandson starts walking into the circle, whoa, stay out. What? ok come running in. What? comon in! comes in and sits down. We practiced this last summer BUT we could have done a test run earlier in the day, smooth things out. It's all good. Gotta get that guy on the handle next summer. 11 is old enough, way past really.

Hey Clean that's great. In.my RC Days gone now for two years. Probably will never return. And your guy at 11 in the circle. I started at 9 YO and built my first S1 Ringmaster at 13. My first 049 was a little Toot. A biplane it was given to me. Bill Foot built the plane he was 90 YO. That was in 1955. Great story, ya for that guy. AJ