Hello]

Well its spring has sprung here in WI, and im ready to go fly my PT19! Problem is, that there is nobody that would be able to be a flying buddy. Im trying to figure out how im going to fly it.

JW

BTW, got some good leadout lines on it...

What part of Wisconsin are you in?

If you can't find a helper, you can make a simple holdback device. Take a straightened wire coathanger, leave a straight 8" and then bend two loops and then another 8" straight section. Now make another straight section about 6" long. You also need to rig a landing gear tailskid with a loop on the end. To use, push the looped device into ground 'til just loops are showing. Place plane tailskid between the loops. Attach a line to pin and extend to center of circle. Start plane, go to center of circle and when ready pull pin. Good luck, red

KDHeath, I live in the fox valley (Oshkosh, Fond du Lac, etc) I contatcted the nearest clubs, but none of them have any CL flyers in them.[&o]

The hook idea sounds like a good idea, might have to try it

I think I thought of an idea...

Darn. I was hoping for La Crosse, maybe. We're in Rochester MN and often drive 100 miles one way to the Twin Cities to fly CL, so western WI is pretty close. A bunch of us will be at KidVenture the Sat and Sunday of the EAA show. Drop over and look for the Minneapolis Piston Poppers.

There was a fellow named Doug Dahlke in Oshkosh who wrote for Stunt News. I don't know that I've heard out of him in a while, but you might try to find him.

There are a variety of stooge designs around. I've used the coat hangar wire variety, but they still make me a little nervous for anything larger than a 25 engine. Probably fine for your PT, though. Do remember to throw the release line away from you or walk away so that you don't tie your ankles in a knot..... Spectators have been known to walk or drive through the circle while people are flying, too. Using a stooge is kinda risky, so do be careful.

Hey kd

Can you also drill a hole in the bottom of the fuselage (profile) under the tail for a pin to go thru? We have actually had a few good days of weather her in KY and I have already mowed my flying circle out at the house. I'm getting a Bobcat next weekend to put a good smooth finish on about 1/4 of the circle for takeoffs. (My wife thinks I'm going to rent it just to move some dirt for her).

The wind always blows from the west at my place so where do you think I should start my takeoff strip? Is it best to takeoff into the wind or with the wind pushing the tail to the inside of the circle? I guess I could smooth the whole circle out, huh? Or maybe just pave it. Yeah, me and what bank?

If I takeoff with the wind in my face, then the tail is being pushed to the inside and the nose wants to go outside which improves line tension. Then when your airspeed is enough to get off the ground, or about 1/8 to 1/4 way around the circle, the wind is behind you to help get to flying speed. Is my thinking in the right ball park?

Been working 7 days a week for a while, nothing but eat, sleep, and work, and not a lot of sleeping. Toyota must be practically GIVING away cars right now.

Hi JW, I don't know what your family situation is, but if your dad, grandfather or even an uncle knew you're keen on model planes I'm sure they'd love to spend time with you. BTW that brick idea will work OK. Nice looking PT 19 you got there.

JW,
Your assistant does not need to know how to fly. Have them hand launch with the wind at their back, the plane slightly up and pointing straight ahead or slightly to the outside of the circle. Make sure when they release it they let go without putting any kind of spin on the model. From your side, keep steady tension the lines, the controls at neutral, and step back as they launch to maintain line tension.
If you take off from ground, you might use a long piece of cardboard to launch from. Have them release straight ahead and not push the plane. Again, keep tension on the lines with slight up elevator and step back as it gets airborne to maintain line tension.

RW,
If the wind is blowing from the west, you want to take off from the north so the wind will assist you with line tension as the plane gains speed.

Good luck guys. Keep us posted.

George

Are you sure, George? If you launch from the north compass point into a west wind? You want to take off down wind to get help with line tension, just bassackwards from full scale or RC. With a west wind, don't you want to launch from the south compass point, i.e. down wind?

RW, yes it looks like the ship would weathervane taking off upwind, but the effect isn't enough to overcome the total effect of the wind on a slow moving model. If there is much wind, you better wear your hardhat for when the thing come after you.
Kelvin

What I'm really not sure of is how much and what kind of effect the wind will have on the vertical surfaces (rudder) as the plane begins its takeoff roll and gets up to flying speed. I am not talking about 25 mph winds but usually there is a little breeze most of the time at my house. I know line tension is critical at takeoff and am trying to figure the best way to keep me and the plane in one piece.

If I take off from the north, then the wind is slowing the plane down as it tries to lift off, right?

If I take off from the south, the wind is behind the plane on roll-out and then pushes it to the outside as it gets to the east side of the circle. But here is my question: Will the wind have more effect on the rudder and make the plane want to turn in at this point? I think it takes more than 1/4 circle to get to flying speed.

You guys are absolutely correct. I misspoke. I was thinking blowing TO the west. Whichever way the wind blows, make sure the wind is blowing on the launcher's back. Right?

George

Edit: RW, there will be a bit of rudder action to turn the model in but it will be offset by the side force of the wind on the entire plane while the plane is gaining speed. You will find later that the area of the rudder section will cause the fin/rudder to be pushed outward downwind and inward upwind which will effectively add line tension upwind and decrease it downwind which will somewhat even out the line tension a bit.

Yep,

That's what I thought. It's been a long time since my CL days but I have a Twister finished and ready to go. I have 4 RC planes and I do take off into the wind with them.

I have a little bit of offset in my rudder, about 1/8 inch to give some additional tension. Motor is set straight on the fuselage, no shims.

Weather just won't co-operate around here. Snow showers for Sat. night! Raining hard now. One good weekend of sun but with 4 acres to mow around the house, it takes some of my play time away. I'm trying to fix a place to fly at the house to keep from driving all over creation to find a flying site. Thanks for all the info.

RW, that sounds about right. You want to simply make sure that the rudder and engine don't point into the circle. The idea is to have the plane fly as tangent to the circle as possible. Line tension is the result of speed. Yawing the plane out with rudder or motor offset increases drag, slowing the plane and decreasing tension. You use a leadout adjuster to compensate for the drag of the lines and keep the model tangent as well.

Simple rule of thumb for takeoffs-take off dead down wind.

Yep, same here-crappy weather. Rain and wind. It is supposed to freeze tonight.

Kelvin

The point is that you want to be up to flying speed when you come around into the wind so that the airplane doesn't get blown in and you lose control.

Jim

There are a few CL pilots in your area

try Doug Dahlke he lives in oskosh. Also, during the fly in, there will be a lot of guys up there teaching kids ot fly. Stop on over.

Dave
(from milwaukee)

JW's PT19 should have a hook built into the bell crank that he can connect a wire to for a hold down. The wire attaches to the bell crank (end nearest tail) via a hoop. The other end of the wire can be held with a brick or staked to the ground. When ready to fly, deflect the elevator (full up?) for release. I'll be honest and say I've never used this method. I've always had someone to hold my planes. But directions for this method should be with the model.

Cool, I just looked at the manual, I can see what you are talking about. Cox says you need to buy a co-pilot hook, but I should be fine just putting a loop on the end of a string. Maybe today, if is not raining, I may go to a office supply store and get some rubber bands too tie the pt19 together again, and then attempt to fly it.

Another problem that I have is that this modern cox .049 is very troublesome to start. It is the new one with the one choke tube on the back. Like this...

Do you have a piston reset tool? The Cox conrod attaches to the piston with a crimped balljoint, not a wrist pin. Most of the recent production Cox product engines like you have seem to have loose balljoints and need resetting to get them to run right and not shell out the piston at some point. Davis Diesel Products has the tools.

Another thing that really makes a difference on Coxes is having a really hot glow plug battery. A nicad at 1.2 volts makes it hard to get them going. We use two D cells in parallel to get 1.5 volts. With a drop of fuel in the exhaust and a starter spring, they fire right up. Also be sure that the needle valve body, the venturi, and the area under the reed are spiffy clean. Any dirt will cause you no end of grief.