Hi All,...

Recently I was fortunate enough to pick up a Sterling Ringmaster Jr. kit from Ebay. Until now the only control line flying that I've done is 1/2A stuff. I wanted something a little bigger to give better line pull and hopefully improve my skill at C/L Stunt.

I would like to know what you guys recommend for the Ringmaster Jr. They call for a .19 size engine, but I am not aware of anyone who makes an engine in .19 cubic inch displacement. Does OS make a C/L version of their 20FP? Or would I have to go as large as .25??

Thank you for all your help and advice.

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

There are a couple of replies where you asked the question in "engine for airplanes"

George

Hi again,
See the reply under Engines for Airplanes abou FPs and LAs. But I do want to add a note about the Ring Jr. It is a pretty small ship-more in the class with the Sig Akromaster. So it's more of a 10-15 size plane than a 20 size. The difference is that engines have gotten much much powerful for their size since the Jr was designed. A really light RM Jr would probably fly on a Norvel 074, for that matter.
But to get to the point, the RM Jr is fun to fly, but limited by a thin airfoil and not much wing area. It will need to be kept light to fly well. So don't hesitate to replace hard kit wood with better contest grade stock. There aren't many parts, so it shouldn't take much time or balsa to do it, and it will make a big difference in how it flies.
A big step up would be a Sig Skyray or Flite Streak (ARF or Brodak kit) with an OS LA 25, or the FP 20 if you have one. These will do the entire stunt pattern in good style, where the RM might struggle.
Just a thought for future reference. All the best,
Kelvin

Hey Guys,...

Thank you very much for the timely and informative replies!! I appreciate all your input and valuable advice. From what you wrote, I gather that the Ringmaster Jr. may not be the plane I am looking for. I read a bit about the Super Clown from Brodak. Sounds like the Super Clown would fit into the 20 to 25 engine size range that I'm looking for. Would this be more the type of plane you would recommend??

I realize you already recommended the Flite Streak and Skyray; however I'm just not a big fan of the looks of those airplanes. Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone!!

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

It's just that the RM Jr is a bit limited and there are better choices if you want to fly the pattern. The Super Clown, at 355 square inches, is a good candidate for an LA 25, and a lot of fun. You'll probably find Brodak's kit a lot better than the Estes/Sterling, too.

Agreed, the Skyray and the FS aren't exactly the prettiest nails in the bag...It's just that they work so well.

Hey Kelvin,...

Thank you for all your help and advice!! I believe my local hobby shop has a Super Clown kit. I'll be sure to pick it up next time I visit.

What line length and thickness do you recommend for the Super Clown?? How about tank size?? What exactly is a Uniflow tank?? Is that something I can buy from Brodak?

Signed,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

Steve,

Required diameter for .15 to .40 engines is .015 for stranded wire. Length for the .25 in a Super Clown should be about 60'. Line size .015x60' is a standard length.

George

Edit: Forgot to answer the other parts. You will need about 3 to 3 1/2 ounces. I would go for the 3 1/2 to make sure. You can always put in less fuel. Brodak has them. Check the one they recommend with the kit (Brodak always suggests whatever you need to complete the airplane).
A uniflow is plumbed to keep an almost even pressure on the fuel feed from start to finish so your needle valve setting stays constant throughout the flight.

George,...

Thank you very much for the information. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

Thanks a bunch!!

Signed,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

Plenty reasonable to start with .015 x 60 foot lines. You might end up going a little shorter, maybe 58 or 59 feet, but only flying it will tell. We fly our Flite Streak with the OS 20 FP on 60 foot lines.

Here's a link to the Brodak tanks. Hope it shows the style I like. #BH 589

http://www.brodak.com/shop_productde...maincatagory=1

Hi Steve,

the Ringmaster Jr was manufactured a long time ago when the .19 engine displacement was standard and plentiful. But today's engines are much more powerful than the ones of the past. Actually this airplane will fly quite well with the OS .15 C/L ...as well as a new .19 of 40 years ago. With the .15 up front, I would suggest you keep your flying lines around 48 feet in length to start. Try to keep your lap times in the 5-6 second range; that way you won't screw yourself into the ground. Once you're comfortable with that you will want to fly something like a Flite Streak with a .25 up front. Still one of the best all around C/L flyers is the combination of the original Ringmaster and a Fox .35 Stunt engine. So you see, you have lots of things to experience. Good luck.

Mudduck

Hi Guys,...

Back a few months ago we talked about Brodak's Super Clown and the required engine size, line length, and tank size. Well, unfortunately I was mistaken about the kit that is available at my local hobby shop,... it was the Flying Clown not the Super Clown.

I would like to go and pick this kit up today; however I still have the same questions. Which engine should I order for it? And what line length and size would you recommend?

Once again,... thanks for all your great advice and help!! I'm getting tired of the 1/2 A airplanes and really need to step up to something a bit bigger!

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

P.S. For your reference the Flying clown has a 26 3/4 inch wing span and 200 squares.

Hi again, Steve. Chanced across your post today. I almost said to try an OS 15 LA, as I have one that we fly once in a while. But I thought to go measure the plane it's in and discovered that it is 33 inch span and over 300 square inches! And the LA flies the wheels off that model. The Clown would be a rocket with the LA 15 and likely no good for anything but going fast. I hate to send out into the used market, but I think I would consider a Cox TeeDee .09 or a regular old Fox 15. Oh, I forgot-OS made an FP 10 that is a really cute little motor. They aren't too hard to find and would be about right for the Clown. The FP would make about the same power as the (much-older) Fox 15 and be easier to break in and run.

There are some other small motors on the market, but I'm not up to date on how they are to run. For instance, the Clown, built really light, would probably fly on the Norvel 074. But I haven't run one and can't give any help, there.

I would fly it on some .012 lines, and try 52 feet. I think that is a little long, though I would try it as a start. I'm guessing that 48-50 feet would be in the ball park.

Take care,
Kelvin

In truth your small Jr Ringmaster should have an OS 10 either an LA or FP. Other motors are the TT 10, Enya 09. If vintage motors are desired then the old Fox rocket 15 or a Torp 09, Cub 14, or any other LIGHT WEIGHT motor. Notice i didn't include the Cox TD09 which is probably the most powerful underrated 09 around and getting hard to get and plugs are expensive for it. Nor should you consider any modern 15 or 20 as you'll be grossly overpowered.
As to line length, built to reasonable light standards the plane flies fine on 52 foot .012 lines
Having flown them off and on for 50 years it is a fun type plane, never designed to do the pattern. I'm amazed that people think that it would. Power requirements were always modest for this plane. I probably would stay away from the Norvel 074 unless your able to really build light and I do mean LIGHT. With reasonable building technique and a light finish, please no monokote, it looks bad on these planes, you'll have a nice sport model.
dennis

The TD .09 is still in production and is available directly from Cox ( http://coxmodels.com/ ). Apparently Cox decided to sell directly in order to compete with foreign markets. They also just lowered their prices (on-line at least). The TD .09 may be a problem if you fly at a field where mufflers are required. Excellent engine.

I have an Enya .09 on my Ringmaster Jr. and a Russian Mk-17 (.09) diesel on my Flying Clown.

Many Clowns are flown with .15's.

The Ringmaster Jr. instructions call for a Fox .25 schnuerle. I am guessing that they intended to promote a new racing event because the Fox .25 schnuerle should haul the full-size Ringmaster pretty fast. That may also be the reason for adding sheeting on the wing. I would recommend an .09-.10.

One additional thought...the Ringmaster Jr.'s wing is built in two parts. Because the wing is rather small, I built the space between them (on the plans) as part of the wing to increase the span just a bit.

Good luck with both the Ringmaster Jr. and the Flying Clown.

George

I,ve got a much used Ring Jr. that currently flies on a Fox .15 Schneurle, 52'X.012 lines and an 8X4 prop. Pretty fast bust good for sport flying, just loops, lazy 8s, wingovers and low inverted ( love clipping the grass with a beater plane! )

It has flown in the past with a Fox .15X, OS .10, and when it was new and a bit lighter ( before numerous repairs) it was a great flier with a Cox Medallion .09. The Medallion engines have always been a bit more user friendly for me, and still turn up pretty good.

When using the smaller engines I flew it on a bit shorter lines, about 49'. I acidently hooked it up to a pair of 35' X .008 one time, and decided to try it- exciting for a bit - but I got dizzy and dumped it.

One thing to remeber if you do build it - use a longer elevator horn than the one in the kit and keep the travel down to about 1/2' each way. Too much travel and you can practically stop the plane in mid- air with full up elevator.

George, be very careful getting anything from Estes. Thee have been some real quality issues raised on their products and I can assure you that they do not run as well as the origional Cox products. Their product line has been indeed discontinued by most of the major carriers but from what I was led to understand it was an availability issue. Estes pretty much desimated the old Cox plant and got rid of a lot of the equipment. They sold motors for a long time from the stockpile of parts that they had when they bought the company. That was I understand a huge pile of parts. It also explains the mix and match approch to tanks and cases as their parts supply dwindled. They sub contract their engine manufacture and a lot of the little steps like taper boring ,and holding really close tolerances seems to have been discarded in the process of cheapening the product to maximize profit.
Many of the product motors have crap in them and the ball socket fit is very loose requiring you to set them before you run them. Given this set of circumstances it is no wonder that the price of genuine Cox stuff especially the high performance parts has exploded on the bay.
Also gone are the competition props and most of the support equipment that they once made. Have you priced glow plugs for even the cheap motors. Oh and don't look for the competition hi compression plugs either. They believe in a one type for all, cheaper to manufacture,

And as a final note, most do not realize that from the moment that Cox was acquired by Estes they NEVER placed an add in any model magazine or made and product availability annouincement in any magazine. This company is not there to support the model community in any manner. This company has concentrated it's approach solely to the TOY market, namely plastic and foam RTF at your local Wal Mart. That said I'd rather not support them at any price.

Well,... I bought it !!

I purchased the Flying Clown kit from the local hobby shop. I also picked up an O.S. 15FP, (that was before I read the replies you all kindly submitted). It sounds like this 15FP will be too much for this plane. I've got the wing already built and its not much bigger than the 1/2A's that I'm currently flying on .049's !!

I have an older O.S Max 10 R/C engine kicking around. Is there anyway to convert this engine to control line?? Are C/L venturis available for this engine?? If so where do I look??

Once again,... Thanks for all your help and advice!!

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

Hey, Steve. When I first re-started CL 5 or 6 years ago, I bought a Ringmaster Jr, too. And promptly put an OS 20FP on it! Talk about a fast pig. It was so nose heavy that the smallest loop it would do was about 300 feet across. These motors have gotten way more powerful for their displacement.

The Clown is a small airplane. I bet the little 10 will be great on it. You can simply wire the carb open and go about your business. Or there are some good sources of custom venturis. Try dropping a note to Scott Riese <[email protected] >. He turns custom venturis-he'll need some dimensions. Or contact Len Neumann at <www.clstunt.com>, the Stuka Stunt folks and see what he can make for you. Don't know about Scott, but Len or Eric Rule at <www.rsmdistribution.com> can get you a needle valve assembly. There is also the possibility that Tower still ahs OS venturis for the tens. I'll go look and be back.

Yep, Tower has the venturi for the FP10. Now whether it fits the older OS is another question. I have no idea.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCX02&P=7

Personally, I'd wire it open and go fly....

Kdheath,...

Thank you very much for the help and advice. Yes,... I checked out Tower's web site and noticed the Venturi and Neddle Assembly for the .10 STD engine. It came out to less than $20 (including the shipping) so I ordered those items. I figured I'd try the venturi and needle assembly to see if it works. If not I'll take your suggestion and just wire the carb. open.

Just wondering,... are C/L engines setup with different timing?? If so,... would ordering the piston and sleave for the .10 STD help to truly convert this R/C .10 into a Stunt .10??

Thanks a million for all the help and contact info.

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

You're very welcome. I expect that the motor you have was only made in one version, with the choice of carb or venturi. This is true of the OS 35S, for instance, that was made about the same time. I hope the venturi and NVA fit. That would be very convenient. The FP sleeve and piston are Schneurle ported and ABN materials, so they won't work in your older cross flow crankcase.

My son bashed his SIG Skyray last week and was reduced yesterday to flying his Challenger with an OS LA 15. What a sweet little motor! Stock muffler and venturi and runs smoothly and very quietly. Couple of flips to start. I think I gave $25 for it used and is worth twice that. I would put that in the Jr Ringmaster if I had it to do over again.

It was a gorgeous day in the Twin Cities yesterday, with 78 degrees and light and variable winds. At least twelve people flew at our field!
Kelvin

Kelvin,...

You are very lucky to have a local group to fly control line with. I have not found anyone in the area who does control line. I've been bringing my two boys to the R/C club to fly their Baby Skyrays.

Who makes the Challenger?? Sounds like a Dick Sarpolus design,... is it?? I seem to remember seeing a plane of that name in the Flying Models magazine plans catalog. That might be something I can use my 15FP on!!

All for now,... your help and advice are greatly appreciated!!

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

Steve,

If you truly have a Max-10, make sure it is broken-in. They were iron/steel, not ABN. You might receive the needle and venturi for the FP and LA. They might fit, not sure. If not, as stated previously, just wire the venturi open and go fly. The Max-10 is an excellent engine.

Don't be afraid to use a .15 on the Flying Clown. Use some 52' x .012 lines and have a ball.

Make sure you use a low pitch prop such as a 8x4 if you use the .15.

Good luck whichever way you go.

George

Thank you George!!

Thanks for the positive and insirational thoughts. Sounds like no matter which way I go with this project, I'm bound to have fun!!

Thanks especially for the prop and line suggestion,... I wasn't sure which way to go with that. It definately helps!!

Signed,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

This the not the Sarpolus Cahllenger. Dick's design is a Nobler size profile for a 35 or 40. (I hear good things about it. Flying Models has plans.)

One of our guys, Keith Sandberg, designed this little Challenger as a kind of advanced trainer. It is 33.5" span, 26" long, about 300 sq inches. Ours weighs 18.5 oz with the LA 15 and stock muffler. Kind of jet style with the forward canopy look and raked wing tips. There aren't any kits or formal plans. I do wish Keith would work it up and submit it to FM. I think they would publish it. This little dude flies great! I think it would do the pattern if flown with a light touch. If you want, I'll run you off a copy of the patterns and mail them to you. Just PM or e-mail me.
Kelvin

The venturi and NVA for the OS10 fit the FSR,FP and LA motors . I had for a long time thought that these had been discontinues till I lookes at the tower site and found that they still existed. That said they are sized right for a os 10 motors and fit all well.
My flying Clown had a Fox 15X on it and it was quite a speedy little ship, Little being the word here. This is not a large plane and any modern 15 makes it into a fast plane, the 10 should be perfect for it.
Dennis