I'm getting into to the fly-by-wire scene and I've got a few questions. I've never flown/built/seen a control line airplane, but it is all very fascinating. I've not purchased anything except a Guillow's P-38 (my fav plane of all time), and two Cox Tee Dee .09 motors. I figure while I'm building that into a line controlled craft, I'll learn to fly using a CL-23 with a Cox .049 motor. Any input on my chosen path or hints to help found my infant knowledge of C/L flight would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!!!

Definitely do-able, and very fun. I've some experience building Guillows warbirds as C/L planes, but I've niether built the P-38, nor am I familiar with the CL-23. Do you have a photo or a link to that "kit-arf-rtf?" What's the wingspan of the P-38?

My experience with Guillows (I've built the Zero, Mustang and FW-190 as C/L and the P-40 as static) tells me that the kits are designed for rubber powered free-flight, and at that, not very well. But you can fly anything, C/L, with enough power on it. The question is how well it will handle in flight. Major considerations that influence a plane's C/L performance are wing area, power-to-weight, airfoil design, and C/L geometry, among others.

If you look at pictures of C/L stunters in the magazines, you'll see they have unscale-like large amounts of horizontal tail area and big, symmetrical airfoil wings. Scale planes, like warbirds just will not fly like these purpose-built planes. But they will fly, and can be improved so they fly decently. It's a matter of how much work you're willing to put into a project.

My first suggestion is to modify the wing to a semi-symmetrical airfoil (assuming it's not, already). In my experience, Guillows kits have flat-bottom wings which will fly, but at C/L power will want to climb so much that level flight takes on a nose-down attitude which looks funny and also limits you to inside maneuvers, only.

I have more, but not enough time to go into them now. I'll see if I can get back to you after work.

Phil

Not clear where you are. Apparently there are two Corinths in Texas, one near Waco and one near Dallas. There are several guys flying control line in Waco, and in Dallas there is the Dallas Model Aircraft Association who fly at Hobby Park at Garland Road and Northwest Highway. The best advice I can give you is to get hands on advice and help from an experienced CL flier. Check the AMA District 8 club listings for contact folks. We will have a CL contest at Hobby Park Labor Day weekend if you want come check it out. It will be listed in Model Aviation and on the AMA website, I suppose.

There is an old Sterling kit for a profile CL P-38 which shows up in the auctions from time to time. I flew one one time with two Cipolla 09's and it flew around in a circle OK.

Jim

[link]http://www.bjm-home.com/modelshop/brodakmodelkits_halfA.html[/link] Is where you can see the Skyray cl-23. It seems to be a pretty stable little plane with a little potential for some sport when I reach that level. The wing span of the P-38 is 40", and I'm strapping it with two Tee Dee .09 cox motors. I just hope that the nature of multi-engine flight isn't so different from single engine that I crash on my maiden flight! Do you think the two Tee Dee niner's will suffice for powering the lightening? And also, would it be a bad idea to cover the p-38 with monokote? If so, what should I finish it with? Let's keep this going, I'm getting some good info!

The little Skyray is a dandy little trainer and is also capable some mild aerobatics. The only mod it really needs is some 1/32 or 1/16 ply reinforcement from the nose back to about halfway down the wing. makes it a lot more crash resistant. Before you build it make tracings of all the parts. You can probably build two from scratch for the price of a new kit.

I agree with Elwyn, the Skyray is a great plane. (CL-23 is Brodack's catalog number, I think.) I've had two (still have the second one) and the idea of beefing up the fuselage from the nose blocks back to mid-wing is right on, especially if you use it as a trainer.

I think the two .09s should be plenty of power for the P-38. A difficulty I forsee, in my crystal ball, is flying the sucker when one engine runs out of fuel before the other. I guess if the right, outside engine quits first, you'd probably be OK, but if the inboard, or left, engine quit first, I'd fear the unequal thrust would cause it to want to come in toward you on the circle, slacking the lines and causing you to lose control.

Copious amounts of right thrust on the engines, right rudder and outboard wing tip weight might help with that problem. Perhaps someone else has experience flying a twin engine C/L model and can offer some help here.

Monokote will be fine:

I intended to post a few pics here, but for some reason they're not loading. I'll try again later.

Phil

In my experience, control-line twins don't need any heroic measures to keep flying if the inboard engine quits first. The plane should have plenty of speed, and the line tension of this plane should be very good.

I always wanted to do a stick and tissue model where I tissued the model, then doped or epoxied fiberglass cloth over the tissue. It should be a good way to build as strong a model as you could want. That would be for the pod fuselages and center section, the rest of the model could be monokoted.

Actually, if you sand the 'glass well and use Sig Stix-it or Balsarite on the glass, you can monokote over that too for a matched finish.

With a TD 049, the Sig Skyray is capable of doing most maneuvers. Have you run a TD 09 on the bench? They are Gonzo little engines. Best prop is a Cox 7 x 3.5. If you can't find those rare props, try APC 7 x 3's. I run mine on Sig Champion 10%nitro, 20% oil, 50/50 synthetic/castor. They can take more nitro. Your P-38 is going to need 60 ft. 012 or 015 cable lines. About 70 MPH, I would guess, around 4 second lap times. It needs to be fairly sturdy to hold together.

It's a good idea for the outside engine to die first, but not a real problem in flight if it does not. You don't need any rudder offset or right thrust. However, do not try to fly the airplane from the ground with only the outside engine running. Been there, done that, have not repaired the airplane yet.

Jim

Nuts, I can't seem to upload my photos, so instead I'll show you a link to where I already posted them.

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1375510]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1375510[/link]

You'll see my P-51 covered with chrome Monokote and the FW-190 covered with Coverall and doped. The Zero is silkspan and dope.

Phil

WOW... You did a spectacular finishing job on those airplanes. I want a highly polished look to the finished p-38, but I'm not sure about the best way to go about getting that and keeping it light. I also want to keep the color scheme as close to original as possible. What would be your best advice? (what's most esthetically rewarding and offers some integrity) And could you give me an idea of how apply the finish? Thanks!

On the practical side of flying, don't use your wrist to begin with. If the elevators are set close to neutral while you hold the handle comfortably then the plane will try to fly wherever you point your whole arm. Try it before you fly and you'll see the elevators move up when you move your arm up and vice versa, but keep your wrist locked in place. In flight, if you're flying level and raise your arm slightly this will give slight up elevator and the plane will climb but as it does so it gradually reduces the angle the lines make with your arm so the elevator slowly and smoothly comes back to neutral and then you're flying level again but at a higher altitude. So basically, wherever you point your arm, that's where it'll want to fly (hint...don't point your arm at the ground ).

Thanks, but actually it wasn't that hard. As I said, the P-51 is chrome Monokote, and the blue nose is Lusterkote spray. The stars and bars are the decals from the kit, and the "Moonbeam McSwine" and kill markings are hand painted ... just takes practice and patience.

I used my airbrush on the Zero ... not a documented scale finish ... saw it on another model in a magazine and thought it looked cool.

The FW is a scale scheme from a book. Used some airbrush, some brush painting, and some masking tape to get the crosses and swastikas straight. It's all butrate dope.

The P-51 is actually a little too shiny. I think it'd look better with panels "brushed" out with steel wool to make it look more like aluminum, but I haven't bothered to do it yet.

Phil

I was going to show you pictures of my profile Shark 15 CL stunt airplane with TD 09. It weighs @18 oz and spans 36 in, rectangular wing with rounded tips and operating flaps. Flies the AMA stunt pattern to suit me on 55 ft 012 lines. Second one I've built. Loaded pictures on other forums just now, but can't load them here. []

Jim

You have already been given some advice on learning to fly control line. The P-38 should make a terrific scale plane. Just remember to beef up the area where engines will mount, also to make sure you have a good bellcrank mount in it. I have the P-61 that has 2 Baby Bee 049 by Cox powering it. No fancy finish. Used silkspun Super Coverite for covering. Did not wory about weight as it is a scale plane not aerobatic. Make sure both engines are running and dependable. Out board engine start first. Once airborne my plane did not care which engine quit first. It is a crowd pleaser. May have to dust it off and fly it again. Right now flying Brodak Tigercat with Fox 15's. But main thing is to have fun. Later DOC Holliday