I just bought a Sig Skyray. This is my second CL model. (I destroyed the first on its first outing). I'm still pretty mutch a raw begginer so if anyone has any sugestions please post them.
Oh one quistion. Should I cover the skyray with tissue or should I just paint it. Thanks

just paint it. you are just learning from reading your post, and i'm sure you may have a few more, i did. my first skyray also met the same demise but i fortunately traced the plans first. so when building the next i added a 1/8" spruce spar in the center of the wing as i built it in four pieces . Front left and right as well as rear left and right. scanner would only allow this method as the wing was too long. i found this to add a little strength, but is still not fool proof. hope this may help a little.

Although covering with tissue does add some strength and is often used as a step toward a better finish (talking paint here) it's just not worth the time and trouble at your stage of learning. It's more important to get out and fly. Just keep repairing it until it's dead then go on to a more advanced model when you're ready. A word of advice: Don't try to fly in wind. Leave that for when you have more experience.

Grant,

What did you do to your first plane that you could not rebuild it?

One of the finer points of sheet-wing planes is that you CAN rebuild them when you crash. The Skyray is an excellent beginner's plane. Make sure you install the controls to minimum movement. This will help you as you learn by decreasing the overcontrol. As you learn, you can move the throws for more control so you can do maneuvers like loops, eights, and inverted flight.

If you can, rebuild the other plane also. This will provide two planes so when you damage one, you can fly the other.

Fly over grass!

Good luck.

George

I built the first plane from free plans I got from Small flying arts. I flew it in wind and lost control. It went way up and then all the way down. Broke every major glue joint on the thing. I did fix it but the fuse warped (somehow) and no amount of rudder or wingtip weight (that it would still fly with) would keep the lines taught. So I'm starting over. I'm hoping that the Skyray will fly better than the amateur designed Cadet too.

Thanks for all the advice.

Part Two...

Grant,

I went over to the SFA site and printed the Cadet plans to compare to the Skyray. I notice that the construction methods are similar. One difference is that the Skyray is built of thinner balsa. This will make it lighter, and hopefully fly better.

What Cox engine are you using?

When you have cut out the wings, make sure they are absolutely flat. A warped wing will not fly as well. If you do end up with a warp, there are ways to correct it. You do not have to sand an airfoil, just round the edges. Note that locations for controls, etc. are printed on the wing. You can sand the printing off before painting.

Take the time to build it straight and make sure alignment is correct before painting.

As someone mentioned, don't try for a great finish. Just apply several coats of clear, sanding after each coat except the last. Add a couple coats of solid color (Mine is sky blue like the one on the box). Use the decals for your trim. You will have time to apply fancier paint jobs on later models.

Don't bother with a landing gear if you can fly over grass. It flies better without it. Half A planes don't land well in grass, they mostly tumble, as you may have already found out.

Now, about that Cadet. If you built it once, you can replace parts on it. By the way, did you connect the elevator with cloth hinges or sewn hinges? Both methods work well. Another type of hinge is to install a strip of cloth on the lower part of the stabilizer and elevator. Some Scientific kits used this. I prefer the over/under (Chinese) cloth hinges, in most cases.

And above all, don't get discouraged. Everyone (I think) goes through a few planes while learning...and the dizziness goes away.

George

OK, lets learn to analyze a crash:

Glue joints broke - What kind of glue are you using? Have you glued balsa before? A properly made joint with the appropriate adhesive will usually break somewhere other than the joint. Making proper joints takes time and practice. The joint must have good fit (no gaps). Some adhesives (like model cement) should be "double glued", that is, put a little on each surface (rub it in so it will penetrate), then when it is almost dry, add another coat and connect pieces.

Fuselage warped: It may have been due to the type of balsa used. Scratch builders need to learn about A, B, and C grain balsa. For sheet surfaces like wings, tail, and fuselage on the Cadet, C or BC should be used. "A" grain warps easily but is great for sheeting on curves surfaces like leading edges on built-up wings, etc. You will eventually learn what weight to use (in pounds per cubic foot). This info is available online and in some model catalogs, such as SIG.

Alignment: ALWAYS make sure things are in alignment. The wings should be straight with the fuselage. The stab and elevator should align with the wing (when viewed from front, back, and top). The wing and stab/elevator should not be warped. Warped parts usually should be replaced, although it is a common practice to add a shim to a wing that can not be straightened.

Later you will find that most builders do not use rudder offset. With the plane trying to fly straight, line tension is maintained by your keeping it going in a circle. Rudder offset is just insurance. By the way, too much is bad also. Same with engine offset.

Wing tip weight should only be used to make an aligned plane fly level and not roll in on takeoff.

If the Cadet really is beyond help, I hope this helps explain why, so you can avoid problems next time.

Keep us posted on your progress.

George

Edit: Forgot one more comment. I believe the Cadet designer has many planes under his belt, and many have been built. It probably was not a design problem.

Yeah sorry it broke along the glue joint not at the joint. I used epoxy. I have been building R/C for about five years now. I didn't mean to imply that the crash was a design problem, No doubt it was me,. I was just hoping that the Skyray is designed better. I hinged the elevator with CA hinges. I ordered it last night so I guess it should get here in a week or so. I'll keep you posted. I have not been able to contact any CL flyers in my area. (LHS says there are some but as yet I haven’t seen any) So I really appreciate all the help.

CA Hinges are much too stiff for 1/2a control line flying you will likely have little if any control. CA hinges are poor hinges for RC too but most of us are spoiled with their ease of use and besides the servo has plenty of torque, Right?

You need hinges that are absolutely free, the surface should fall to it's full extreme just with it's own weight.

Try hinging with monokote, fabric hinges, sewn hinges or if you can find any old 5 1/4 inch floppy disks you can remove the actual mylar media and cut it into strips to use as hinges. The mylar takes CA well and is very free, many use them for small electric planes.

What you really should do is look into one of these to get over your basic flying blues. http://www.balsabeavers.ca/begginers_page.htm

Then work on some balsa.

Also check out www.aeromaniacs.com for their information.

Grant,

Probably the most helpful thing you can do is contact a CL flier in your area. Nearest one I see in a directory of stunt fliers is in Shreveport, nothing in Monroe or Bossier City. PM or email me for contact phone for the guy. I wouldn't presume to hang his numbers in front of the whole world w/o his consent...

He may know of someone closer to you, too.

A few minutes "dual" in Cl is as valuable as the Buddy Box in RC, PLUS you have actual feel of the model in flight, not just visual cues to figure out.

Luck!

Grant,

Sorry if I supplied information that was too basic. When you said "raw beginner" I did not realize you just meant new to CL.

The Skyray has cloth for hinges included in the kit. I would suggest you use that instead of the CA hinges.

You might consider tracing all the kit parts so you can re-create them if necessary.

On back of the Skyray plans are some basic CL tips. You might want to read these. There are some specific differences between CL and RC. For instance, you launch a CL model down-wind so the plane will have enough velocity to maintain line control as you head into the wind. Most FF and RC folks try to launch into the wind.

George

That explains a few things. I will definitly use the cloth hinges on the skyray. Thanks

Hi Grant. I have found that larger planes are much easier to fly than 1/2A. I learned to fly with a SIG Banshee and a fox . 35.This plane is very stable with the controls set for small movement. Then as you learn you can set the controls for more. Good luck and I hope you find a flying buddy in your neck of the woods.
Steve

The Skyray came in today. I will probably get a start on it tomorrow, mabby finish if I'm lucky. Anyway I have a spare can of olive drab krylon laying around. Could I use that to paint it?

Krylon, no. It is not fuel proof. For inexpensive rattle-can paint you need to use Rustoleum. I've heard the clear and metallic Rustoleums are not fuel proof but solid colors should be.

I painted mine with Sig dope. One 1/2 pint bottle is all you need. Some LHS carry it, at least mine used to.

Make sure you get the CG right. I had to add quite a bit of lead on the nose to balance with a Cox 049. I tried flying it slightly tail heavy at first.... bad idea!

Rusoliummm is very heavy. A coat of Poly U over the Krylon should work.
I have been led to believe that the Behr water based is the best but I have not tried it as I have been unsuccessfull in finding any in my 'Hood.

I found a few spare bottles of dope laying around so I'll use some of that. Should finish it today

Finished. I'll try to fly it sometime this week. I'll get my dad to hand launch it.

The Skyray had a vary eventful first outing today. First flight; ended after a half lap when the Cox .049 quit. Second flight; something (most likely wind) made the plane pitch up and turn inside the circle and head right at me, I ran like heck and had a good laugh when it hit right where I had been standing; third and fourth flight went well. fifth flight I somehow let go of the handle and the plane headed right towards the car hitting the rear left window, A good surprise for my mom and sister inside (good thing they had the window up) Sixth flight; cut short when the engine ran out of fuel. All in all a pretty good day and the skyray has gained a reputation for being homicidal.

For this reason, CL flyers use a "safety thong". This is usually a loop of strong cord (nylon, leather boot lace, etc.) that loops onto your wrist so if your hand slips off the handle, it pulls on the down line and keeps the plane from getting away. Your Mom would have been upset had you been flying a larger plane (or even the Skyray) and it cracked or put a hole in her window.

George

I think I will be useing one from now on. Thanks

im 14 and my peacemaker
had been let go of twice
once colliding with a barbaed wire fence
ouch
the second time it just missed a big water
pipe
both times i let it go it was due to the lines
going slack and the model blowing in on me
causing a wing over and when the lines went
taut again and the handle was jerked out of
my hand

Old post I know but just wanted to comment. He says that the lines keep loosing slack. Try putting a couple of small washers on the inboard side of the engine causing it to point to the outside of the circle. This will help to keep the lines tight.

I have a Skyray also. Built recently ready for paint. Going to attempt to show my Nephew how to fly. I have had success in the past showing people by having them join me in the circle once the plane is up. Get behind them and slowly transfer the handle from my hand into theirs. No crashes and lots of smiles!

Wonder if Grant gave up??