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Newbie question...

Old 01-14-2008, 12:00 PM
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Default Newbie question...

Hello all,

I had a friend of mine give me a Midwest Products 48" Me-109 control line kit that he started on in about 1981 and never got past the wing framing. Anyway, I've always flown r/c, but I wanted to give c/l a try. I can't seem to find a hobby shop in St. Louis that has ANY control line parts, and I need to come up with lead out wires before I can really go much further with the wing. I don't know where to get them, what kind to get, or how to hook them to the bellcrank. He gave me a Fox .35 brand new in the box with it, so I imagine it's going to pull a bit on the lines.

I'm also going to need a handle and flying lines for it eventually, too, so any recommendations on what to buy and where to buy it would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Old 01-14-2008, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

You can get just about everything for control line from www.brodak.com Go to the competition rules on the AMA website www.modelaircraft.org and look for the control line general section. There will be a description of how to wrap the lines. Use this method at the bellcrank. There is a control line club in St. Louis that flies at Buder Park. You should be able to find contact info on the AMA site. I bet those guys would be glad to help you.
Chuck
Old 01-15-2008, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

You can try:
http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/

http://sigmfg.com/

http://www.brodak.com/index.php

You might also pick up a copy of Flying Models magazine. One of the FEW that still covers CL.

That said, you should contact a local CL club if available. They often have a trainer that is used to help people learn to fly. Some of us as individuals have planes to help folks learn or relearn on. A trainer is soon outgrown.

No matter how well you can wiggle the sticks, CL is different. You are flying close to the ground and in a relatively small circle. You WILL get dizzy at first from turning in circles, but that will go away.

It is nice to have help to launch...or take it off for you and hand it off to you. It is also nice to have someone to hand the plane off to when you get dizzy.

All of these things can be overcome without help, but is much easier WITH help.

The Fox .35! This is an excellent engine that has been in production for almost 60 years. It requires special handling that a modern plug and play RC engine does not need.
First is fuel. The Fox .35 NEEDS at least 25% lube, most or all castor...many guys run 29%. The reason for this is that first, the engine has an iron/steel piston/liner setup. This requires a careful break-in consisting of multiple short runs (~one minute) followed by complete cool down. This is called heat cycling. Second is that the Fox .35 is a maximum displacement in a minimum case. That's why it's so light. Some of the heat must be carried off by unburned lube (castor has a higher temperature flash point than most synthetics).
Second is careful needle setting. Excessive lean in an iron/steel setup can cause "thermal runaway" which can ruin a piston/cylinder fit fast. Most run the Fox .35 in a 4-2-4 setup. That is, flying level yields a rich, four cycle setting. When you raise the nose of the plane, like for a loop, the engine speeds up to a two cycle run for more power. On the down side of a maneuver, the Fox breaks back to a four cycle run. This characteristic of a Fox .35 is often imitated in other engines by special rework.

Hope this helps a bit, although it is perhaps a bit more than you need.

George
Old 01-15-2008, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

Forgot:

Lines = .015x60' should be correct.

Handle = Get one that is adjustable or at least has a narrow spacing. The narrow spacing will limit control movement. Most of us overcontrol when we start flying CL. I like the Tom Morris handle.

Try: http://www.clcentral.com/products.asp?cat=59

I like the #2 handle, although the pic is upside down (unless you hold the handle at eye level).

George
Old 01-15-2008, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

gpd4:

gcb gave you lots of excellent information. I will stress one of his points and that is to get some help, just like starting RC, until you get some experience with CL.

Back in the 1969-72 time when I was still active in CL Stunt, I used one of those MW ME 109s to test engines, break-in and for general fun flying. It is a good airplane and can fly a stunt pattern well. OTOH it has all the abilities to get the new CL flier in trouble.
In CL, one of the most quick ways to lose a model is to lose line tension -- slack lines. This can happen especially when flying into the wind and in high maneuvering. In CL you need to TO with at least a quarteing tailwind, not directly into the wind. When the engine cuts, start your deadstick approach and keep some good airspeed until low so as to land on the downwind side. A "balloon" into the wind and the inside wing drops and all you can do is run backwards trying to maintain tension. Have plenty room and NEVER fly anywhere close to overhead electrical wires. [X(]
If you get a chance watch a CL flier doing maneuvers. Watch his arm movements and you will see his arm adjusting for small devistions of the line tension. It's a different world from RC but one you will enjoy very much, I GAR-RUN-TEE IT!
Old 01-15-2008, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

Thanks for the responses - I see several sites mention a lead out kit as Class A or B and Class C or D - am I right to guess that this is a fairly large c/l plane and therefore would be a Class C or D?

I've had a minor setback in the completion of this kit...I seem to be going from finishing an old kit to scratch building...my cat took a leap down onto my workbench and went through the center of the wing framework. The bad news is that he broke/removed the four center ribs and cracked several others AND seperated almost every other glue joint in the wing. The good news is that I never would have guessed the glue joints to be that weak and probably would have had a catastrophic failure in flight had this not happened...oh well - what's another couple of weeks work, right?
Old 01-15-2008, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

The club which flies at Buder is the Lafayette Esquadrille. Check them out on the AMA website. You will find all the help you can use with them. I'm a member but I'm in Austin, TX , so not much hands on help. [] I do usually come up in September to visit and fly in the Broken Arrow contest.
Old 01-15-2008, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

gpd4,

Welcome!

CL is about the ONLY kind of model flying where it makes a lot of sense to have buddies with you for flying. You get the expertise to check out your model and discuss what to look for. You get the important familiarization with what it feels like these days; if you ever did it before, it will come back to you almost immediately. If not, the help you'll get is absolutely essential. You'll get another important item - a buddy 60+' away to launch your model... You'll also develop enough respect among your buddies that they trust you to launch THEIRS!

You'll get all this and more - great friends! - because in CL, more than any other model flying, we HAVE TO depend on each other, or we (almost always) CAN'T fly! I can't remember ever meeting a CL flier who wasn't great to be associated with, and to have as a friend.

And, flying CL is physical. You feel the air against the controls. You feel the forces acting on the model, and they tell you when things are good - and even when they are NOT good. You don't need to try something, then wait to see what the model decides to do about that. Control is direct and immediate! YOU stand in the center of the flight of the model, not off to the side, watching like a spectator, only with SOME influence on where it goes...

I've flown most of the different ways, over the past 50+ years, and CL is still the most satisfying for me. The fine people in CL only add to the joy of the flying...
Old 01-15-2008, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Newbie question...

Thanks for the responses - I see several sites mention a lead out kit as Class A or B and Class C or D - am I right to guess that this is a fairly large c/l plane and therefore would be a Class C or D?
Reference Lead-Outs: At a local fishing store you can find single strand/wire metal Leader material and stranded leader material. Your AMA pull test is 30# for the .35 and 40# for over .40 engines. You can find suitable lead-out material according to that load.

In addition almost every HS has the wire and tube display. So do many Hardware stores. I PREFER SOLID lead outs. Many will disagree however I collected a few trophies along the way, and I used solid leadouts and will again. .021 -.027 solid does a great job and is so easy to use using Needle nose pliers, square bends, and wrap-around.

This may be above but here again for checking out stuff. Stunt rules: http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/CLPA.pdf

Good luck.

edited to add that most of these were CL stunt followed by 'C' FF. Other CL and FF are there and some RC Pylon Racing.



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