C/L scale handle
 

I am about to buy a controller/decoder for a c/l project.
There is a handle called the Scale-Master with a great picture
of the handle.
But, when I go to the web site it looks like a general product search type of site
with none of the links going anywhere useful. Does anyone know how to get in
touch with the people who make this product?

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Where did you get the picture of the handle?

What is the full name of the company and the handle?

Where did you find out about it?

What is the website you're going to?

RE: C/L scale handle
 

This is the site..found on google search.

control line scale handle

finitesite.com/scalemaster/

today it is not comming up at all.

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

There are other handles you should consider instead of the Scalemaster handle:

1) Bill Young out of Flagstaff Arizona has sold handles are smaller and lighter than the Scalemaster

2) Also consider using the JR radio setup with the DSC chord. The transmitter hangs on your belt and you use a normal stunt handle. I like this method better. It's not as hard as you would think.

3) I also use a single channel setup that is basically a 555 Timer circuit and hangs off my belt for my scale and carrier models.

Good luck

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Fred,

I was about to order a Clancy Arnold encoder/decoder set-up for a twin-engine airplane.
(before the Scale-Master was in the picture)
Should both engines be controlled by one-channel or separate throttle servos?

Since Clancy's is not in a box, was going to build a handle with the controls on the top and
offset to the left because I fly right handed.

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Jerry,
I have built 8 twins to date and three are control line. I use one channel for the throttle. If one engine is a little stronger than the other you can mount it on the inboard side. Some R/C guys use two throttle channels, but with a computer transmitter so that they can match the rpm's throughout the throttle range. I don't think i t is worth the effort. I sure would not use two sticks to control two unmixed channels on a C/L model. Any mistake where you moved only one stick would be instant demise of your model. I am like Fred in that I use a JR radio in the direct servo control mode. It is very easy to set everything up for your left hand; my Hs129 has throttle, flaps, retracts, and bomb drop. I use mine with a neck strap.
Chuck

RE: C/L scale handle
 

If you can use the capabilities of a computer radio for a mulit engined CL model, they can do some things for multi's that are really worth considering.

Mixing allows you to tune each engine separately to run their best and most reliable settings. And they can then be synced with one mix. And with better radios, their throttle response can be tuned all the way from idle to max to match the two engines perfectly. This often turns a marginallly safe mulit into an absolutely reliable one.

And you can also use the radio to vary the inboard to outboard to do special things. For example if you mix the two throttles with the rudder as master, the RC airplane can taxi with the engines providing the turning force. Obviously, a CL handle connected to the pitch controls isn't going to be able to perform that taxi trick, but think about what that engine balance can do for us.

RE: C/L scale handle
 

I control my twin engine models with one channel and separate servos.

If you did get a radio (with DSC) that had the proper mixing you could sync the engines easily, however since some of my twins use the servo driver (similar to the Clancy Arnold unit) i do the following to sync my engines:

1) Run each engine and set the high speed needle, get an a reliable idle, do separately for each engine
2) Run both engines and throttle back until both engines quit, notice which engine quits first
3) lengthen the pushrod by turning the clevis on the engine that quit first, start with 4 turns
4) restart the engines and repeat step 2 and 3 until both engines quit at the same time, DO NOT ADJUST THE HIGH SPEED NEEDLE SETTING TO SYNC THE ENGINES, changing the length of the pushrod either shorter or longer will speed up or slow down the engine so that they both shut down at the same time. I don't worry about the high end RPM being off by several hundred at full power

If I had to purchase an electronic control system today I would either buy the Clancy Arnold system, Bill Young handle or the JR DSC radio. I did not like the size of the ScaleMaster handle, in fact I prefer to have the servo driver or transmitter on my belt and use a normal stunt handle.

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Fred,

I am wondering what happened to Bill Young. I have tried to contact him at his shop and for weeks all I would get was his recorder. I left a message but there was no reply. Now the number is disconnected.

How's things in Wichita? Doing any flying? I stopped at the NATS this year and C/L Scale had five electric planes, all by the Bauer Clan. Electric is the way to go.

Vic Gearhart

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Update...

Purchased the Clancy Arnold encoder/decoder. Put it in a Radio-Shack box with three variable pots and
a torpedo drop switch. Attached it to a Brodak standard handle with 1 ½” space between the box
and handle. Tested the unit on the bench and it works!
Will get the lines connected and ends wrapped next then start working on the airplane.

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Here are a couple of shots of the handle I made to house Clancy's encoder. The top slide is for throttle, and the center round knob is a 5 position switch for the cooper bomb rack.
Steve

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Steve,

Yours looks similar to mine, just prettier. Just looking for insulators to replace the
normal line handle wire with fixed connectors. Will try to post a picture when it is finished.

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Hi all,

I am new in forums but I am in C/L for a long time. I am not a high level pilot. I begun in scale and later I jumped to aerobatics. Later I knew about carrier deck. Searching handles in Internet some time ago I kept a favourite link that helped me to found the link you asked at the begining of this thread.
I foud it at:

http://scalemaster.netfirms.com/

but I did not buy it.

Did anyone buy it recently? There is an Online Shop (try the links at the bottom of the web-page)

Regards,

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Gents,

I've been wanting to do this for quite some time, but today is the first time I found ANYBODY who has walked this path. As I am not electonics savvy, would you be kind enough to post a couple of photos of your U/C/R/C Handles and transmitter set ups? The receiver and servo end I can handle, and once I see what you have done, likely can put together the transmitter / UC Handle / controller. All I'm looking for is throttle control - nitro engines.

I am recently and enthusiastically playing with RC planes, but have been building and flying UC since 1962. I really like the new generation of ARF's for the RC stuff, but by far prefer kit or scratch built UC's. The RC's feel more like cool toys to me, and I prefer the flying to the building, whereas the built-up UC's are hand crafted, and there is as much pride in the workmanship as in the flying skills from inside the flying circle...

By the way, the Scale Master folks currently say on their website that the Scale Master handles are no longer in production and are seeking a buyer for their parts inventory / product name / website.

Any info you can provide on how you are handling single channel RC to a UC will be greatly appreciated!

Matagordababy (Steve) / [email protected] / 1-979-335-4552

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Steve,
What brand of R/C equipment do you have? If it has direct servo control you already have everything you need. As I mentioned above I just use my JR transmitter on a neck strap. My left hand does what it does to fly R/C.
Chuck

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Chuck,

Absolutely true, of course, and I've several Transmitters to choose from if I go this route. I was hoping for a more elegant solution, something self contained within the UC Handle, or at worst remoting a Slide Switch or Throttle Trigger to the UC Handle with a simple Transmitter at my belt, with true "wireless" transmission to the onboard receiver / servo set up. Running sparks down the UC wires doesn't excite me at all.

I think my first attempt will be to butcher a two channel "Car" transmitter to see if I can install the important bits into one of my J.Roberts Handles. I don't like the 3-line set up overly much (which is what got me to thinking about an RC Throttle control), but the Handle itself has a bit of room and perhaps I can imbed the electronics into the handle, and at worst remote the transmitter batteries.

I've got the "Car" Transmitter and J.Roberts handle pinned to my work bench, sedated, awaiting the knife...

Steve

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Steve,

Clancy C. Arnold [[email protected]] sells a one channel unit and multi channel unit. He will email you
his info and sells them for a resonable price. They work with insulated lines you can get from Brodak.

Jerry

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Guy's, I am interested in that Bill Young handle that "clscale" mentions in post #4....

Do any of you know where you can get one and what they cost ?


Thanks, Tim

PS
Hi, Steve !!...lol lol lol...;)

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Contact Bill at:

[email protected]

He has the straight scoop on electric control line stuff.

Bill

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Thanks very much Bill !!

You dont happen to be Bill Young are you ...lol lol lol...

Just kidding, I'll email him and see if he has a handle left because I came accross a guy that knows him and he said that Bill Young is pretty much retireing...
The guy that told me this didnt give me a contact for him though so I dont know that for sure and even if he is retireing he might have one handle left !!!!;)

Thanks again
Seeya, Tim

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Hello Fellow Pilots.

I just found this thread and I'd like to add my 2 cents a clear up some miss information. First..ScaleMaster will be making a come back very soon. I am in the process of a small re-design that moves the trhottle from a stick to trigger and am going to use another kind of line connector.
2nd..I never was in any market for anyone to buy any kind of inventory. The only inventory I have or had at any time..were the mini-meters that I had in the top of the handle. Each handle was poured and
assembled to order. Lastly. The long delay in getting this handle to market was because, my partner, Chip Robinson died of a brain tumor and funding for components was hard to get. Also, I relocated to Wisconsin from California and shortly after moving here...a company destroyed my original portotype while making the tooling for molds. I have been fighting that company in court for over 3 years. As a result I have had to rebuild a new prototype and start all over again.

As to Fred's comment about my handle being heavy...it is not...considering everything it had and will have in it. My handle is the only one with a back up battery supply in the handle that has a metering system. Mine also has servo reversing and end point adjustment, etc. It also has a contoured hand grip. It is in addition to that a full 7 channels. 1 throttle and 6 options. Since my handle is fully enclosed it does not get grimy from field dirt and fuel as other handles will get.

I know Bill Young and he is a fine builder and has an excellent handle and most likely is less expensive.

I have been at odds with Fred for many years..and was there when he flew his planes with the radio hanging from his belt. The only problem I have with that..is a safety issue. If you have a large scale model..it is wiser to fly with both hands on the handle...having said that...converting an old radio may also be a cheaper way to go.

If any of you are interested in the ScaleMaster I would be happy to hear from you. I am also looking for a few pilots to compete with the new handle for promotional reasons. There may be a free handle in it for the right pilots.

Depending on response I may be accepting advance orders for the new units. Officially the handle will be known as the ScaleMaster Medalist. and a new webiste will be launched when the prototype is completed.

Thanks for reading.
Best Regards
JD Hennings
ScaleMaster

RE: C/L scale handle
 

I checked the links above and it would seem that the old webiste has been hacked...I did not put the sale of inventory at the top of the page and the home page is gone.  I will see what I can do about updating.  Also the email link is incorrect.  the correct email is [email protected] 
the rest of the site (from the links) looks the same except for the misinformation on that one page.
Thanks again
JD

RE: C/L scale handle
 

site has been updated....now back to work on the modifications on the new prototype....happy landings

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Just so everyone knows that there is a rule proposal with the AMA that will allow 2.4Ghz radios, that will eliminate the need for the insulated lines and sending the signal downs the lines. If that happens for CL scale watch for a shift in technology that makes all of the stuff I have flown with wth obsolete.

As with all of these methods there are differences in opinions, either way they all work, I prefer some more than others. Flying the large models with the transmitter on the belt has never been a problem even flying a 1/4 scale bravo (17 lbs).

Land softly.
Fred Cronenwett

RE: C/L scale handle
 

of course....however...the need for lines to control elevator will still be needed...hence the term control line...without them it is indeed radio control.
Also, what is considered safe for some..may not be so safe for others. After all these years the debate still remains. At lease we can agree to disagree. At any rate..my handle will be less expensive than a 2.4 gig radio....lol...the important thing is to promote the hobby, have fun at it..be a good sport and give the best and most informed information you can. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

and Fred...as I recall...I never saw you fly a warbird fully loaded..the camera pane you flew and a few others were kewl to say the least..but they were different...flight charateristics of planes vary..and what may be very safe for one plane might be quite unsafe for another...its all in the wrist, arm, your body weight and how fast the plane is going and what the weight of the craft is...I hope you have expanded into scale FAI warbirds it is a real challenge. Best of luck to you...perhaps we will compete against one another at some point in the future.

Happy Landings

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Hi all,
Ijust wanted to remind everyone that the 2.4 GHz rule is not a done deal. The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that just like in the pre Spread Spectrum days there is still a fixed number of channels, just more of them and the radio picks which channel it sees as unused. If Control Line starts using 2.4 GHz radios then the RCfliers may start having problems with their radios not finding a usable frequency. Then what will happen??
Clancy

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Well Clancy, with the current technology I don't think there is much of a problem except the older JR Radios including the unmodified DSX 8. The RCers face the same problems.

Now IMO, Control Line is Control Line. I am going to use that system I bought from you and it will be going soon, even though not ready for this year's NATs. Actually, I don't think I would have a real feel for the machine with one of those handles with all the stuff hanging on the handle.
Many years ago I could never appreciate the Jim Walker U-Reely because there was little of any feel in the handle. It was almost totally a mechanical control. To me flying any airplane is a FEEL and PRESSURE item, even RC, and not a mechanical bashing of sticks like kid's computer games. :D

I cannot justify why I should condone a Control Line model to be flown any method than through the control-Lines. If they want the RC options, then fly RC. I will not support the use of total RC in any Control-Line Elevator-Only competition rule book. OTOH what sport fliers do just for their fun and play outside of formal competition is, of course, their own business and not mine to judge.

Sure wish I had started that Cub last year, or even better that wifey had not broken the ankle.

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Hoss
Hope to meet you at the CLScale NATS in July.

This should be a great NATSwith all of the fliers entering new and unusual models.

My Taube will not be the biggest!!
Clancy

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Clancy that is a pretty empty threat given the numbers of controlline flyers at any RC field in the country. Even at the nats although I have regretably never been to one the numbers at any one time are so small that fear of 2.4 interferance is just pointless especially considering the numbers of simultanious operations that are occuring at many fields across the courtry.

I am the only flyer who uses anyform of throttle control at my field but have been successful in getting a few more involved. I have used my Bill Young three channel system for around eleven years now and that was even before I had to use a wheelchair. This system works like yours Clancy I.e by sending encoded signals over the insulated controllines and it was the key for me to continue controlline flying after I dropped into the chair.

But for me the added setup time and difficulties in setting up are becoming more difficult for me and that is why I decided my next Ukie will use throttle via 2.4. 2.4 saturation is not a problem and yes of course it is outlawed in the competition rulebook however that does not apply to sport flying.

Actually that is quite an antiquated rule that needs to be changed appropriately for 2.4. I beleve there have been a rule proposal to change it, that may be in the rules cycle already. Perhaps Hoss you can enlighten us on that.

Either way it will have no effect on me since its unlikely that I would ever be able to make it to any controlline contest.

Hoss I would urge you to rethink your stance on RC features for controlline. I know the purist says no way man however that same purist cried foul when the first real controline arf came out. I think no one now could argue aginst the fact that those ARFs have keep controlline alive.

The advantages of using encoded info over the air rather than over the wires are many that have become apparent over the last eleven years using my system and now it time (at least for me) to move on.

The fact that we can now freely use 2.4 (with the exception of AMA rulebook events) Is going to be a major benefit to many of my fellow gympy flyers and 2.4 is the key to that.

Now how about a wheelchair class at the nats, How cool is that! I know, I know[8D]


John

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Here are some pictures of myU/Tronics ControlHandles.
First is an original U/T design single channel. Only the slide pot at the handle.
Second a Universal U/TSingle Channel Handle for glo or electric power.
Third is the U/T Handle for my CL Scale Taube.
Fourth is a 4 Channel U/T control ready to mount on a handle with 2 proportional and 2 switch controlled channels. Box sizeis 2 x 4 x 1.5 In.

Clancy

RE: C/L scale handle
 

John

Have you seen the pictures of the "Pilot Seat."  It was featured on the back cover of Control Line World magazine Vol. 2 Num. 2 in April 2008.

www.thepilotseat.com

(209) 470-8351

Looks like it was designed for you. 

Clancy

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Thanks Clancy I think I will stick to my chair, gives a lot greater versatility and can fly in bigger winds with it. The down side with the chair is it needs to be on a hard surface.

The Magician will pull me around by chinning the handle and flying a forty degree line angle to shorten them increasing the rotation speed but normally use my feet anyway for propulsion and have no foot pedals. I travel backwards in stores and such.

This chinning and line angle trick has saved me a number of times when I have suffered a break in the throttle circuit being neccessary to fly out a tank. I prefer to keep my flight under three minutes.

John

http://www.youtube.com/user/JohnBuck...36/T3b8ndVIhII

RE: C/L scale handle
 

John
Great video!!
How often do you have to re-lube the wheel bearings in your chair? LOL

Congratulations,
Clancy

RE: C/L scale handle
 

I am a member of the Belfast Model Flying Club in Northern Ireland. We are a dedicated Control Line club who dabble in RC flying.

I bought a Bill Young handle a few years back so that I could run "down the line" throttle control to a 54" wing span Avro Shackleton Mk3 that I have built.

When I connected everything up as per instructions nothing happened. I checked that a signal was getting down my lines but still the ESC's refused to operate. When I installed an RC receiver bingo all worked exactely as planned - 4 motors running and a beautiful noise.

SO - The maiden flight consisted of myself with the handle and another member with the transmitter for throttle control - RESULTCRASH but thankfully repairable.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how I can get the handle to work or suggestions on an alternative method for down the wire throttle control.

If this cannot be achieved with the Bill Young handle then it is up for sale.

Thanks

Eric Millar

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Eric,
As I mentioned in posts earlier in this thread, I use a JR transmitter in the direct servo control mode and am not familiar with the Young handle. I have noticed, painfully, that any short circuit in the control lines will cause my system to fail. Had a problem using eyelets at the end of my lines that had sharp edges. Under the load of flying the sharp edges would penetrate the insulation on my flying lines and short out the system. Pretty ugly crash. I haven't done electrics yet, but in my reading, or discussions at the R/C field, I have heard that some ESC's are sensitive to the end points of the throttle channel. Maybe you can't get the right range on the Young throttle channel to enable the ESC.

How about posting a photo of the Shack.

Chuck

RE: C/L scale handle
 

As chuck noted the Young handle does not have end point adjustments on the throttle trigger or any of the other channels.

I have been using the Bill Young handle quite successfully now for I beleve about 12 years however this has been only with glow aircraft and as noted by Chuck I beleve your problem is related to this lack of endpoints when using a ESC.

I am not sure how to help your situation as I am not a electronics type. Trouble with this is the Young handle was developed some years before the whole world except me it seems was in such a mad rush to convert from glow to electric. Your handle I suspect would work fine if you left out the Rx and just used a servo but of course that is a problem for the ESV.

Using the Young handle I found that you had to be creative with the actuator horns on both the servo and throttle arm to acheve reasonable endpoints for even the glow installations, kinda like the not so good, 'good old days'.

Now after those years of successes with the over the wire systems which I am still using today with two airplanes set up for it. Also note with all my controlline airplanes I have to have thottled systems because I fly from a wheelchair. I am going to abandon the over the wire systems altogether and this is only possible because of the miracle of 2.4 over the air systems.

The real trouble with an over the wire system is it requires four connections or (Y)'s to the flying wires two at the handle and two at near the leadouts. These are the Achilles Heal and over those years these take a beating and I have suffered every possible mannor failure usually related to this Achilles Heal and had to complete flights with no throttle which for me is a genuine problem.

My next airplane will us a a simple over the air system which will consist of an old Hitec Prism 7X with the Hitec 2.4 module system and of course a RX and small battery as well as a small servo on board for the throlle. You could of course just use the ESC plugged to the throttle plugged to the throttle channel in the normal way and of course just as with RC you will have full end point control. My intent is to also use an onboard servo an release for a launch stooge as this will greatly facilitate my set up time when I am alone and minimise trudging through the dirt in my wheelchair.

Monellar I suspect your problem when you tryed using RC with a separate operator for the transmitter, if I read right was at the root of your crash. You need to control everything and not depend on a second party.

The system I will use next will be a conventional over the air and the transmitter will be worn simply from a neck strap and (key point) backwards with the sticks pointing toward the airplane, the ordinary attachment point for the strap cannot be used to do this. Now I have tested the ergonomics of this setup by hanging and operating the sticks like this as a test and I was actually flying the airplane with my Young system. The neck strap will need to be attached in some fashion to both sides of the transmitter.

What I have found is that its very easy to operate the throttle simply with your free hand or any of the other sticks for matter. The transmitter is worn high right over you chest and not low near you beltline. Its actually easier to do this than to train yourself to operate a handle for elevator control and a pistol trigger for throttle. That was a definate skill set that had to be learned with an over the wire system using a trigger operated throttle.


Oh by the way Monellar wecome to RCU;)

John

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Chuck & John thanks for your quick replies.

I have a 3 wire vintage TomTit and have found it impossible to use the index finger of my right hand to control the throttle.  I always fly this model using my left hand up at the handle for throttle control, "so much easier".

Back to Shackleton problem.

John - I hadn't considered that the handle was perhaps not compatable with modern electric flight, so perhaps the wise move would be to sell the handle and as you suggest move to a 2.4 set up.  My local Model Shop have already suggested this as a way forward so it looks like the purchase of a transmitter tray is on the cards.

No doubt someone somewhere has develpoed a successful "down the wire" control system for electric CL flying.

RE: C/L scale handle
 

The problem you speak of in operating a trigger of a three line system is the what I was speaking of even with the trigger pot on the Young system.

Yes no doubt there are folks working with an over the wire system that is compatable with electric ESC's but all of them will still require the Achilles Heal I spoke of earlier and that is the connections on each end of the flying wires. These even increase the work load more just winding up you lines which I am sure you are aware with the short connector on each end of you insulated lines. These make just winding or extending your lines a time consuming task.

Yes the over the line systems were a major improvement over the three (or more) multi line mechanical systems. Now I beleve the 2.4 over the air system or set ups is another just as great a step forward as the move from the multi line systems.

Just think about it will be just like when you were a kid with your simple ringmaster or equivilant and you could quickly and simply set up. You can even do the same with your complex shackleton. You will simply need the charge both a receiver and transmitter battery just as you would do with an RC airplane.

I would definately not invest in a conventional Transmitter tray its all wrong for what we do. You will find that the tranny flat aginst your chest with the 'sticks pointing at airplane' (key point) is the best position for it. All you need is an adjustable strap that attachs to the top corners of the transmitter. Your could either bolt or screw them if there is room internally or simply bond the attachments anyway to like to the top sides of the transmitter.

2.4 is becoming a major boost to the controlline community and many are not even aware of it just yet.


John

RE: C/L scale handle
 

I know it isn't related to the scale thing, but I think I will try one line on a foamy indoor this winter.  I am just going to hook the line onto the back of the receiver and fly with the sticks.  A variation could feasably be worked out with a pistol car/boat radio if it is strong enough for a real plane.  One or two lines wouldn't matter and they wouldn't need to be insulated.  It definitely isn't going to be an official way of doing it though.

RE: C/L scale handle
 

Aspeed there is no "offical way" when it comes to creativity and that creativity is 'Part n Parcil' of what we do as modelers.

What I think you described is a single tether line on a foamy and using a 2.4 RC system to operate a throttle and elevator with you standing outside the circle. That indeed would be very cool and probably a lot of fun, indeed go for it dude!

John:D

Old worn out Dude