This guy shows up at the field with a low wing 40 size ARF. white trimmed in red and yellow. (sorry, I'm not familiar with ARFS ) He never asked for any type of help.
Later, we found out that he thought he could handle it because he can fly a park flyer.
Here's what happened: The climb out went well. and he got in the pattern just fine. At about 200 ft he had his hands full still trying to adjust the trims, I thought. After completing three high passes he put it in a shallow full power dive toward the end of the runway, then leveled off at 20 ft.
Then "it" happened, the best rekit I've ever seen. It exploded right before our eyes. no pitch changes, no roll input, not even a glitch. It just exploded.

investigation results:
The builder thought that the wing was a two piece, and the ply wood spar joiner comes out for transport. ( no glue ) and the dowel pins and the plastic bolts hold the wing together.
When the spar failed the wing split the fuselage in two . The canopy and the turtle deck went straight up taking the rudder with it. (it looked like the pilot punched out) And the motor. fire wall, cowl and nose gear was found at the end of the runway. the stabilizer hit the right wing and took out most of the ribs the left wing fluttered to the ground without a scratch. What a mess.

years ago out club president had a saying that stuck with me: I don't want to see any one crash their plane, but if they are going to crash I want to see it.

Did anyone offer to help the newbie try to get the trims adjusted? Just curious....

This is a sad story for everyone. The Guy who lost the plane AND all of the guys at the field who let it happen. At out field NOBODY flys unless they have been checked out by out trainers. A newbe would have had his plane checked also. No wonder our dues are going up to cover the cost of insurance. Everyone in this sport/hobby must take some responsibility or else were toast. IMHO, Pete Veneziano

Pete, I hear'ya!!! I really feel bad when a newbie crashes because it may be his last flight... I also do not think that it makes one bit of differance if he built it from a kit or it was a arf!!

Ya'know, I'm gonna just leave this topic alone because the more I think about it the more aggrivated I get....

With all that said though that is a great story. I like the "2 piece wing" concept.

This most likely would not have happend at our field, for one the plane would have never flown until all credentials were checked(AMA, Club Membership etc....) Then the plane would have been checked out. I have witnessed numerous times a club member walking out to a pilot in trouble no matter who it is and for what reason, I for one would have. Not to say it would have helped in this matter but from what was discribed the pilot was having problems.

Randy

That's too bad. Newbies should always be supervised when first getting into this hobby. My field is a private invite only club with only 20 or so members. They all have been flying for 20 years minimum ( except me i'm only 28) so these things don't happen there.. thank god..

One bad thing that did happen was this one guy from another club came to fly with one of our members who is a friend of his, he was signed in if you say.. Well anyways he said he could fly good but as soon as he lifted his 1/4 scale cub on the runway we knew right away there was going to be some trouble with this guy. After he fought to keep it straight he managed to fly a circuit MAYBE 2 times then BANG!!!!

He banked the plane TOO much with no rudder at all (common mistake with a cub) and the plane went down into a group of spectators..Luckily the people seen it coming down and moved out of the way..
Can you imagine that slamming into somebody or even a little kid..
That is why beginners should always be supervised and also when somebody new comes to fly at your club he should be checked out also..
Remember planes are not your averege toy and can cause serious harm if not death in some cases.
Safety should be #1 at a field and I know alot of fields don't follow that.

Whats sader is he didnt read the building instructions. or.. they wernt clear enough, and this is the problem with artf, you dont know what your buying. a friend had a V-mar spitfire. the tail plane gave way in flight.
It was built with a 1/8 SQ leading and trailing edge sheeted with 1/16th balsa, the LE was rounded leaving very little strenght anyway. then to get a good glue grip the covering was cut away, this left a score in the balsa and a weak point at the fuz ( a weak point anyway )
We do have the rule about checking out new planes before flight, but its not normally carried out, espicialy if the planes owner flys it him self. Newbies cant normaly fly so the test pilot gives a quick check, but i admit, i've never checked things like correct build before a flight, just correct opperation.
Sometimes we've let dangerous planes fly just because we know it wont fly anywhere. Cartmans collection is a great example. a Correx combat delta ( seen on site below ) what we didnt know was it had a park flyer RX ( 200 foot range ) the damn thing flew! but only till it got out of range and then crashed in a bush on the edge of the cliffs. another Cartman project was him mini typhoon. i think i show you pics, coz its hard to describe...

Bad throw, not enough speed, crunch.

Ok guys, look again............. He never asked for help. It was a low wing, that led me to believe that this wasn't his first rodeo.
Our field is a leader in training. last year we soloed 47 pilots. It's not unusual to get a trainee at the field that's only here to learn, then moves on to a club closer to their home. What's surprising is in some cases the trainee was "sent" to us buy other clubs. (we don't mind at all )
Our trainers ware badges on our collar, this makes us easy to approach. (mine was on).There were three badges there that day because it was a Tuesday. ( training days are Tue. & Thur.) On training days there usually around five.

As for not following the instructions, I've never built a ARF, but I have assembled toys and other things that came from that part of the world. I would imagine that it is written in "broken English". ( in this case "crashing English" )

Just one more thought in defense of my club:
This is a very busy field we have grown from 145 members to 357 in two years. Clubs are closing all around us.
( Now I know how the spotted owl feels )
So when you say "a newbee" try to remember how many people you know or recognize at your club; All of them?, most of them? I see new faces every time I go to the field. I don't know how 357 compares to yalls clubs, but that's allot of folk's to keep up with.
At one time we thought of putting a cap on the membership, It was voted down by a large number. I wish I knew which snooty hastard came up with that concept. but that's another thread.

Our field is on state land so you don't have to be a member of the club of AMA to fly. This could easily have happened at our club. People have to take personal responsibility for their own actions. We can co our part only if given the chance. I'm glad no one got hurt.

We have 130+ but not all of those fly.
We have a few groups, the day time unemployed and retired, then at weekends you got everyone else, maybe 20-25 flyers at most.
New commers are easy to spot. ( ok not for you if they come from other clubs )
They all have MDS engines, have castor in the fuel and a brand new trainer.
Most of our new flyers come to the field first with no plane, then get interested, so we know who they are to start, or they contact the club officials.
The worrying bit is these people tend to show up when no one who is good enough to buddy box them is about, which leads the the ( just gone solo ) bloke to take them up. You know, the bloke who did it last week and now cant stop flying, the one thats always on the field.
The problem being they might well be able to fly a plane ok, but not one thats out of trim, or regain control quick enough when the newbie gets it wrong.
We do have a club training plane, and it has two trannys, which is good for me as my memory is full on mine. but sometimes the better pilots than me normally pass on the job coz they dont want to stand there and not fly them selves.
I hate it when you say "ok help you fly", then you find a problem, spend ages fixing it, find the next and same again, get them flying, and you've just wasted your flying time.
Whats WORSE!!!!!!! is when your training a 12 year old and showing him how to land, then let him do it and his first try is perfect and makes you look stupid

Im a newbie but i have a saito .80 using 15% heli (synthetic) and have a brand new cub... :P

ok but seriously the guys at the field i go to are willing to help anyone and offer at any chance they have.

if someone new shows up someone will talk to him and we will find out if he is new or not... there are people at my field that talk so much it a wonder that they ever shut up enough to fly all in all a great bunch of people

hehehe yep, we got those
http://www.rcflyers.fsnet.co.uk/characters.htm
Malcom. This guy would ask you what you thought about this plane and that, not that he could every fly one, and then he'd ask about engines, and anything else. After 3 years and lots of crashes we've not seen him for ages.

Sparkie...
I enjoyed the story. I can just see the plane coming apart...like others have said, lucky nobody got hurt.

UNLIKE what others have said, that crash was the responsibility of the pilot at the sticks and nobody else. Who's to know what the guy would have said if approached by club members? Sounds to me like he might just have said that he could handle it...probably could show 'em his AMA card too.

We have a sordid mentally developing in our country, which constantly tries to pry responsibility from he individual. Is it McDonald's fault that you burnt your crotch with spilled coffee in your car? Or should you have known that coffee was supposed to be hot? You all know what I'm trying to say.
Leave Sparkie alone, he's just the messenger.

Sparkie,
I understand your club is getting bigger and you can't know everyone but is that is not a valid argument. Consider this. If your club is 300+ is size then there will likely be several people who can function as safety officer/ helper/all around resource person. Put his name up at the peg board and give him a distinctive hat or shirt so he is easy to see for help. Rotate these duties like grass cutting. How long do you think your field will stay open if there is a serious injury or fatality?

Timbersnake,
For the most part I agree that we are living in an era of declining personal accountability. Yes the idiot who spills hot coffee on himself should't get a dime from McDonalds. But, I'm sure you have heard of neighborhood watches. Your right the guy Sparkie talked about had no personal responsibility so why should we all suffer the consequences of his ignorance? Pete

You're kidding me, right? ( rotate duties HA! ) I was club V.P. for 2 years, once I closed the field for a "field clean up day". there were rocks on the field that posed a grass cutting hazard. 30 people begin picking up rocks 20 minuets later there were 7, the rest were standing in the shade complaining, "That's what I pay dues for". ($60 per year) I explained that if they don't want to do the work we could pay someone, but the dues would likely go up to around $100 per year..........The point is people get into this hobby to play not work. It's hard to get people to do things that they don't want to do. Even if it's in their best interest. We are all just monkeys with car keys.

Safety officer ? = If he volunteered chances are he will walk the pits like a cop with a D.B. meter in one hand and a coaches whistle in the other.....Every one out of the pool!

Boy, has this thread has taken a turn or what?

If you are saying that you cannot maintain a safe envioment for other flyers then maybe you should let your members know so they can find a club that can.
After all, isn't that what the purpose of a flying club is? To have good fellowship and maintain a safe place to fly? It sounds like your club has grown so much that it's out of control.
I am by no means saying that the new guy has no responsibilty.
Safety is an effort that we all have to be involved in...

Sparkie,
I was just trying to offer some ideas for your club. Sorry you didn't get more support when you were V.P. Pete

I'm with Timbersnake on this one. The guy with the tranny is ultimately the one responsible for his actions. We've had them at our field, as I'm sure almost everyone has. They show up, decline help ("nah, it's ok....I've been doing this on my dad's farm for ages"), then proceed to do the big left-hand-swing take off through the pits or the carpark or whatever, citing such gems as "Geez, normally I don't have to worry about where it goes when I'm on the farm coz there's heaps of space out there...."

Actually, there was a guy who recently rejoined our club (and left shortly thereafter) after a break of some time (5 years or something). He turned up with a *very* old and busted looking tranny and trainer plane with an ancient loopy .40 on the front. I approached him and asked him if he thought he might need some help to get airborne again. "Nah, I'll be right. I've been using my cousin's simulator for a while." Another club member offered to buddy for him, but the offer was also refused. He set up and got ready for takeoff, then got nervous and decided he might like to have someone stand next to him, 'just in case'. The second club member volunteered and proceeded to stand next to him while he managed a flight of about 1.5 seconds, resulting in a *huge* cartwheeling crash, right in front of the pits. Broke the firewall out, busted the tail and wing and took the U/C off. He gathered up the bits, sulked around the pits for 15 minutes or so, then took off home. Only came back once since then I think, then hasn't been seen since. If he'd accepted the offer of help, he'd probably still be in the club I reckon. Shame really, but entirely his own fault nonetheless. As they say, you can lead a horse to water......

mrbonk,

Everything you said is understandable and correct but from Sparkie's story it did not seem to happen this way. If a new comer came to our field he is checked out before he flies. No one flies unless they show proof of having an AMA card. He is then checked out with questions of his flying ability, if any help is offered and refused then yes I can see it being his responsibility.

The way Sparkie made it sound, they just let new comers go out to the flight line with the rule that all new comers should approach for help and not be approached.

Randy

Randy,
Thats where I disagree with you... If someone refuses help does not give him the right to just go fly. I feel like someone MUST prove themselves before we just let them go fly on their own...
What are you going to do when the new guy crashes into the pits and destroyes someone elses plane then of course he cannot afford the $$ to replace it? I think it would be easier to challange a new face than to try to recover damages later.....

Ok I stand corrected thanks T, you are right I must of had my head in the wrong place :stupid:

That would be kinda silly to just let someone fly knowing they may not be capable of handling the plane.

Randy

Oh we have a safe field, and a system in place to enforce the rules. In fact last week a card carrying member was thrown out for repeated offences.

I'll try one more time.
(1) It was an intermediate trainer
(2) No mistakes in set up procedure ( forgetting to plug in the ail. servo ect.)
(3) starting his motor
(4) or even calling out "taking off".
He looked like he knew what he was doing.