Ian.W

mmmm......me to

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

1. The pilot was known to be a hot dogger.

2. They were practicing for an upcoming airshow and the crash didn't happen during an airshow.

3. It was at Fairchild AFB in Spokane WA.

4. there were no nukes on the plane.

5. The wing commander was relieved of his duties because of this.

6. It happened a few years ago.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

I had a friend who was in on this investigation. The story from him and the following investigation is that this tragedy happened the day before the airshow. The pilot was known for somewhat reckless flying and had been documented clearing a mountain top by not more than 50 feet (I have seen the video, and have it in a file here my office). The commander of the unit wanted this guy canned, but th stroy was that the higher ups wouldn't pull his flying status. The commander of the unit forbid anyone else from flying with him, and was actually in the copilot seat when the plane goes down. As you can (could) see from the video the plane turns up at an almost 90 degree bank, losing lift and going into the ground. The ejection hatch on the copilot side leaves the plane, obviously realizing that they were going in. Unfortunately the commander wife and kids were at the airfield watching the practice for the airshow. The incident was a subject of an Eye on America piece from CBS (have a copy of that as well) in which they give all the details and talk to the wife.
It was a tragedy, but happened several years ago.
Tommy

beardking

My Feedback: (4)

Alright guys, where is the video already???? (no, I'm not an evil person, just interested to see what you guys are talking about)

Righty-RCU

hey doc,

if it wouldn't be to much trouble could you send me the copy of the CBS show they did of the crash. my e-mail is [email protected]

Thanks in advance

Righty

tonyL1

My Feedback: (1)

Since it seems to be removed from earlier posts , my realplayer
kept the addy for it, here it is again

http://multimedia.airsafetyonline.com/rm/bomber-lan.ram

please dont kill me for reposting (cringe )

iatemydingo

My Feedback: (1)

wow, just wow, not much to say, thats horrible. too bad :-/

Strykaas

Had he been willing to commit suicide, would he have made it differently ???

Righty-RCU

when i try to play it on windows media player it says "Windows Media Player encountered an unknown error." I can't even open it with divx.

Strykaas

Use real player !!! ram files are for real player !!!

BeauMiller

My Feedback: (18)

DocYates & Art......thanks for setting the record straight on this one with facts. I've seen that ridge crossing video too.

FYI: This crash occurred nine years ago in 1994. Also, the BUFF uses spoilers for roll control (as do most large aircraft), not ailerons. That is one reason why they were unable to recover.

I can't even count how many times this incident has been used as an example in all the leadership and CRM (crew/cockpit resource management) training the AF requires of us every year. Hopefully people take it to heart and don't let something like this happen again!

Beau

tigernms

Just a few comments:
1) Thanks Art for setting the record straight with all the facts.
2) It is true that the B-52 uses spoilers only, however they had alerons until the B-52D. So post D models have spoilers only, which serve double duty as airbrakes as well.
3)Beau..... thanks for your input FAIP but if i wanted it i woulda...... just kidding..... In basic areodynamics (even at ENJJPT) you learn that at 60deg angle of bank imposes 2G's worth of loading upon the airframe.. Thus thrust required also exponetionally increases.. to the point at 90 AOB, not even the T-Birds or the Blue Angles can maintain a 90 AOB turn.... indefinatly (this does not apply to my morris sledge). They perform this maneuver by trading energy or they have to trade some of the lift vector used for the turn and use it in the vertical plane.... So the aircrafts AOB exceded the thrust and lift avaiable from the airframe. Bottem line, like many have pointed out.... Poor judgment caused the crash not a design flaw, we all know that the B-52 will chase the last B-2 out to Davis Mothen and fly the crew back home...
As a side notedont forget that there was also a Radar Navigator in the jet, as reqired by the -1 flight manual for min crew... He really had no choices once he straped into the jet.

Cheers-

Tiger

HoovDriver

My Feedback: (1)

Doc, thanks for setting the story straight. Being a Navy flier I too have sat through countless ORM/CRM meetings and seminars just as Beau eluded to and this video always pops up. Just one clarification to all the mumble jumble tigernms said, any aircraft full scale, 1/4 scale etc.. prop / jet... can bank 60 degrees, the 2 G's comes into effect only to maintain altitude. The increased acceleration is not imposed on a plane in 60 degrees AOB just due to the AOB. This is probably exactly what he meant, but I found it worded a bit off.

ZK

BeauMiller

My Feedback: (18)

Tiger,

I did not mean to imply that a design flaw led to the crash. Only that once he decided to use excessive AOB at low altitude the aircraft was unrecoverable. I totally agree with you that poor judgement is the main reason.

Do you think the Tweet can knife-edge? I mean with all the extra thrust its gotta right? J69's forever!!!

I'll just shutup now like a good FAIP!

tigernms

Hooverdriver,

Thanks for trying to keep me straight..... Its a hard job! You are right one with what i was trying to say... We are flying early week, and with a night CT thrown in the middle... Circadium rythem loves that as does my ability to intelligently put into words what i wanted to early in the am.....

Beau.... Yea I think the Mighty Tweet will knife edge, just dont try it at low alt.... ie out of the MOA..... And im sure you know with a little practice it will do a pretty decent 4 point rolls also...... Just never got a really clean 8 point roll yet.. But I digress....


Check Six-

Tiger

superflea

i cant see the link but if its the crash i think it is the wasnt carrying any thing let alone nukes it was flying a demo flight at an air show the pilot overbanked at WAY to low an alt and crashed i believe it was only the pilot and co pilot on board because he had a rep as a hot dog i believe the co-pilot was in fact his CO if so then the CO should have grounded him not his crew. i know there were no nukes on board because i was in the air force at that time working on B 52s at minot afb. nukes dont fly they do not leave the ground unless on an operational mission I.E. we're mad at someone for this very reason cause planes crash and a broken arrow wouldnt look good to the press.

grebmohr

BLTN

Watched it over and over to see anything to give me a clue about that one.

It appears the Flaps were deployed. and there was a full Spoileron deflection on the right wing. Man - I know people say hot dog and pilot error and they probably have CVR/FDR evidence to back it up but I really have a hard time thinking an experienced pilot would enter that situation just for a wow.

There was alot of derision on 737 pilots before they figured out the hard-over rudder problem.



Just spitting my fair share.

norcalflyer530

look back in previous posts its been up here before i think the guy ejected but didnt make it.....someone said it had nukes???

B58

My Feedback: (43)

As an old B-52 guy I have a few comments. No nukes! That is silly. Take a 150000 lb. airframe with no ailerons plus a fuel load, roll into a 70 degree or so bank at low altitude, and it starts to slide downhill. All B-52's after the F model had spoilers only. You can't pull over about 4 g's, so you can't hold altitude. Add right roll, spoilers on right wing go to full 55 deg. up, and that just kills more lift. They were dead as soon as they exceeded 45 degrees roll. Stupid, stupid, stupid! Seats on the buff work above 600 feet. So ejection was really not an option either. At least no one on the ground got hurt.

Strykaas

So what is your conclusion B58 ?

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Since all I see is dashes and no links, I will speculate.

If GrnBRT is correct as to which crash it was, it happened around June 1992 (Same weekend as the sand castle/art contest at crystal beach on the coast...it may have been July). I was in Portland at the time. So...It was 11 years ago guys.

Spaceclam

how come the "links are dashes on my screen? there is notyhing there

BankYank

My Feedback: (63)

Art has it right and it actually happend in Airway Hights WA not Spokane WA. I grew up in Spokane and had friends in the airforce and have been on the base way to many times to count and was about two miles away going there when it happened. They would not let me on base that day but from the plume of smoke i seen i knew why. I have seen him practice the routene. There was also a KC135 that crashed months earyler practicing for the Thunderhawks. B-52,KC135 routene that i also seen in practice. I do feel sorry for the families but i can also tell you this. If you have never seen a B-52 in a 90 degree turn about 200 feet high and comming almost right over your head your missing out. It was an AWESOME thing to see. To bad he crashed and B-52 are not made to do that.

mjd3

It was Sept, 1994

Joe Trinkley

still can't get the video guys, can someone put it on here please....you got my curiosity going tonys links says i'm forbidden...can anyone download it then reup it to the rcu site?