4*60

My Feedback: (41)

High capacity NIMH? Reason I ask is because they have high internal resistance and voltage will drop off fairly quickly when load is applied. If you had a 2000-2700NIMH in there it may be the problem, although you do indicate it's a 6 volt/5 cell pack.
I was using the 2500 NIMH 4 cell type packs and when I read about the internal resistance and voltage dropoff I decided to move on to 5 cell 6 volt NIMH and then I still moved on from there due to the quick loss of charge while sitting for periods of time and the voltage drop under load.

Perhaps switch to A123 packs of 6.6 volts and be more comfortable with rx packs like I am.

Sorry about the crash. I have a repaired 4*60 that has a slight curve in the fuse but still flies great. Definitely doesn't look that pretty, especially covered in pink!

kurt2022

My Feedback: (18)

kmot, Why didn't you buy an authentic spektrum receiver??? Did you ever think that going cheap on your most important electrical part, other than the battery, might not be a good idea??? You get what you pay for!!! The defination of insanity, doing the same things over and over and EXPECTING different results!!! If you do rebuild or buy another plane maybe you should consider using authentic parts NOT clones from CHINA!!!

LTJeeper

I see lots of comments in here about the different 2.4 Rx units. I use Airtronics (only guy at my field). No problems yet (knocking on wood now). I've had AM/FM/PCM JR, Futaba, Cirrus, and Airtronics. I liked the Airtronics the best so that's the way I went when I converted to 2.4.

Are their any warning messages out there for the Airtronics 2.4 units?

And, my Rx is mounted to a foam block but not wrapped because they do get pretty warm.

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

You poor slobs using Asian receivers. I feel for you. I only use Kraft.


Geesh you want the guy to put a $200 receiver in a 4 Star 60


Hey why don’t Spectrum and the other name brands sell there receivers at, lets say 4 times the cost of a clone instead of 10 times? Maybe it would be worth it then for 40 and 60 size planes.

Gene Margiotti

My Feedback: (4)

HI KMOT,

Beautiful plane you had there. I usually don't comment, but I thought that I would reiterate a few very good points that several folks have made. As you move forward with your new plane consider the battery advice of 4*60. DSM2/X receivers must be flown using a 6 volt battery system. The orange clone receivers have been shown/proven to be inferior in many aspects and should not be used. The best airborne battery system for JR/Spektrum applications is an A123 receiver battery. I get mine from Sin City Jets. I use them in all my large gassers and jets. You will never look back to Ni** chemistry again.

Rebuild that 4* and get it flying again. Great job!!

Gene

scoeroo

My Feedback: (9)

Amish,

Kraft receivers died last century.........can you still buy them?
get with the program here...

rglgatortail

My Feedback: (7)

knot, where do you think that spectrum receivers are made from? Hey they are made from china as well so it dont matter what color the case is, they are still china born. We americans want to spend as little as possible to support and supply our hobby habbit, and to that we are going to buy systems that is or is not make by the specific manufacturer. So trying something and depending on the user either it will be a good outcome or not so good there is just no way to find out without trying it. I have not met a model flyer that has not gone without crashing any of their models and any of those crashes were either 2.4 or 72 mhz. To my knowledge there is no bullet proof system out there that we in a general can have and use that will not let our models go without loosing signal. I have a huge interest in the 2.4 system but I'm just not convinced that it is a sound system so until then i'm going to continue using my 72 mhz system

jaav

Jeezz Just about every Name brand system I see is made in China...

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

Noooo! What have you guys done with buying those Japanese clone receivers!


It's a joke There Scoeroo, I was playing off the irony of that fact that Kraft and the American companies where ran out of the business by low cost crappy clones from Japan. Now you have people standing by their Japanese or Taiwanese brands and calling the Chinese stuff junk.

I will buy From China for now then when they get too proud and raise their prices through the roof I'm going to switch to Indian receivers, and then to African. If the robot lords will let me.


Those 86 channel Tai Ya Dhahabu radios are going to be the bomb!

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

That argument doesn't hold water.

If you think all products manufactured in China are equal, you are delusional. The quality control, design, and tolerances are worlds apart between companies there. The cheapo knockoffs are not even close to the real deal in quality.

I encourage you to use whatever components make you happy. For me, risking one of my airframes, or safety, to save a few bucks is borderline stupid.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

I have made plenty of bad decisions in my lifetime. Perhaps using a 1 1/2 year old 2300 mAh NiMh battery and a new OrangeRx 9-channel receiver was another one.

blueapplepaste

My Feedback: (5)

Meh, don't beat yourself up over it. Could have been a number of things. Nice that they make a fuselage kit, I'd order it, build it and go fly (with some new batteries!!).

I love the orange receivers for park flyer/foamy stuff. But on any nitro or larger electrics, I stick with the name brand stuff. Not fun to crash a $30 foamy, but a lot worst to crash a $500 plane you spent months building. Especially if crash was due to cheap-o chinese knockoffs.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

kurt2022: Why did I use an OrangeRx you ask?

1) Because I have read countless reports on the forums, and seen lots of video on Youtube that show that the OrangeRx is reliable, and usable as a full range receiver.

2) I have no prejudice against products made in China. The Chinese are not stupid mongrels. It all comes down to what the buyer wants them to produce in their factory and at what price point.

3) Due to the favorable reports, I purchased a couple OrangeRx 6-channel receivers ($8 each!!) and used one in an electric parkflyer and later used the other in a 40 sized glow plane with perfect results.

4) Due to being partially disabled and forced to retire five years ago, my fixed monthly income has been chiseled away by the downturn in the economy and I have virtually no hobby dollars anymore, so I have to cut corners and economize where I can, and could not afford the $100 Spektrum receiver. Based on the results with the two previous OrangeRx receivers I felt safe in trying the larger 9-channel version in my Four Star 60.

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

That was a very good posting Kmot.


Er, well written, and thoughtfully put in a concise manner.

RCER88

My Feedback: (25)

I use 13.00 receivers in gas airplanes. That BS of you get what you pay for is complete hogwash in todays market. Reliability and crash percentage per flight on the radio is what important. That is how you prove how reliable a radio ACTUALLY is. Not the advertising or alleged hype or price tag.

I am using HK v1 module in a Turnigy 9x with six and eight channel receivers. Assan and Frsky in a Flysky 9x. You know what I have a superior crash/flight percentage with my inexpensive radios as I do with my Futabas. So don't bash what you have never used. I have not had a single radio related failure in flight with over 600 flights on those radios. My Futubas are far worse. I have six in 650 with my futaba. I prefer my inexpensive 9x over the high dollar futaba. I know my inexpensive radios work with good reliability.

To the OP even with a 5 cell pack if one cell falls off under load it could "brown out" thus causing your problem. Batteries are the most important thing in your plane if not properly maintained you will lose your plane. I seriously doubt the receiver is at fault in this instance. You admitted you did not properly care for your battery pack. NIMH if not used for awhile will have to be cycled four to five times because they WILL lose capacity if you don't. I recently bought new NIMH packs and had to cycle each one five times to get them to come up to capacity. The data sheet the seller sent with the batteries informed me of that fact. It confirmed a suspicion I had for many years. Cycling your batteries is a very good idea. You can monitor the battery that way. You KNOW when a battery is questionable and pull it out of service before YOU crash.

A good ground load test is move both sticks all the way to the corners and hold it for sixty seconds. listen to the servos if the sound changes after forty five seconds your battery can not handle the load the servos are drawing. In many cases the servos when all working at the same time are drawing more power thus causing a voltage drop and a possible "brown out." I use this technique and discovered questionable batteries. Then when cycled found a bad pack in many cases the pack came back up after five cycles and was fine. Battery care is IMPORTANT.

Good luck.

Red Raider

My Feedback: (86)

Hey, Tom: That was a great looking plane. Sure sorry to see it in that condition. On the bright side, it is very repairable and will be easier than you think. One of the other guys suggested setting it aside for a few days and then go fix it. I like that advice. Get over the shell shock and then fix it. I had a 4*60 that had over 700 flights on it when I lost it due a cheap battery. The funny part of the story is that it started out as a wreck that another club member discarded as being unrepairable. I loved that airplane - it flew great, was easy to transport, easy to maintain. I know that some guys have great success with cheap batteries, receivers and servos. I'm not one of them. Every time I buy cheap, I buy twice. Even though they claim that you don't have to wrap the Spektrum 2.4 receivers, I wrap mine in foam and then wrap them again. Just a hangover from the old AM days. This is not so much an advice post but a support post. Don't let it get you down, fix that sucker and fly the wings off of it.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Kmot, sorry for the loss, looked like a real nice plane. Regarding the battery, for future use, check out "Hangtime Hobbies" (Red's Battery Clinic) or "Radical RC", both have very good battery info explained in easy to understand terms. I was too use to 700 and 800 mAh packs and wall warts to think otherwise. However, once into 2.4 and digital servos I easily understood the load put on the batteries required better judgement. The NiMh are not prone to depression (memory) like NiCads, but they self discharge at a higher rate than NiCads.They also require form charging (conditioning) even more so(NiCads typically only need one initial form charge but two won't hurt). A new NiMh pack should be cycled at least twice, probably more, before using it. I formed charged a new 2000 NiMh packthree times and each time it's capacity increased. I now chargepacks ata charge rate1/10 of its C in mAh(2000 mAh / 10 = 200, charge for 2000/200 = 10 hours charge time) or until the pack gets warm. On a new pack I add 40% to the initial charge time (unless the pack heats up). If you use a 60mAh wall wart it would require 2000/60=33.3 hours charge time, and a wall wart would likely not do the trick. Just some ideas you may not have come across. Build yourself another one, you'll be glad in the long run.
hook

PS: I missed4*60's post, and I would echo his statements too. I haven't gone A123 yet, but I likely will. I have had very goodresults with 1650 and 2000 mAh packs from one of the mentioned vendors, but with higher NiMh packs you really need a charger that puts out at least a 200 mAh charge rate .

trab1925

bahaha

JRgraham

My Feedback: (1)

Icouldnt agree more, and thanks for the 60 second servo load tip!Excelent advice for a simple Zero cost battery check!

chymas

My Feedback: (1)

Ihave a 60 size low wing similar to a tiger II. Iam using a DIYdrones auto pilot and tuning 5 servos, I check the batteries between each flight after 3 flights of 20 to 25 minutes each Istill have 4.8v with a 100 ma load. I really don't think the batteries are the problem.

I do question if the radio switch is turned off and then turned back on while doing bench testing/setting up a plane does it then go into brown out mode?

Ihad 1 plane that I was using a bulkhead switch mount and due to vibration turned itself off. I got to the plane first thing Iwas looking for or suspected was radio problems/dead battery. Load tested - everything good found the switch had a tight spot in it.

JeffinTD

What transmitter were you using? My dx8 had to go back in to correct an issue: apparently it could lock up using dsm or dsm2 receivers. I think other transmitters were included. Might check if yours is one.

I also had a foamy freak out and go down with the control surfaces in strange positions, and the esc/bec doing an impression of a George Foreman grill. I thought esc was bad, but a new one overheated instantly too. Turned out a servo would dead short...

Anyway, sorry for the loss. I've used oranges with no problems, though I use spektrum in nicer planes.

koastrc

Kmot, it is to bad about your plane. You have got some good answers to what may have happened. Things do happen. There is a story about radio failure on our field two days in a row. Two old timers with many hours of contest flying. Both had crashes of pattern planes. Both radio failures were the same. Both radios were FM. Both pilots forgot to extend the antenna on the TX. That is known as a short in the headset. Both dudes blamed 2.4 for the mistake. That is correct. Both pilots have done most of their flying on 2.4 this season. I think this is going to happen a bit more. So you see there is always something. In your case. We are not sure what happened. The main thing is just hang in there man. You should not get down on yourself.
I do not think my ragged out trainer would have helped these to old guys.

RCER88

My Feedback: (25)

That testing technique works. It can also find defective servos too. If a servo chatters it has a problem. I have done that test and had servos fail too. Because it happened on the ground I did not lose my plane. I run lots of old servos and have battery packs that are ten years old and still run at full capacity with no problems. During the winter when I am not flying I cycle batteries every 30 to 60 days. It keeps them going good.

During the flying season I check battery voltage before each flight. If below 5.1 volts (four cell) I top them off at .25 amps. I do not use high amp charge rates unless I have a questionable battery then I want to ZAP it to see if it will come back. If not I cut the end off it and toss it. I keep a couple for setup batteries and them are marked as such.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

In order to check or charge my Rx battery I would have to take the wing off the 4*60 so I did not check the battery. In any case it never crossed my mind that the battery could be low after two flights of 3 minutes each.

I have been doing boats for so long now, and had layed off the flying for a while. My scale boats will run all day long at the pond on a single charge of the battery. Now that I am back to flying I had forgotten some of the basics.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Just realized I never posted the videos here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10618840