Lost a good plane today, had been flying for about 10 minutes set up for a landing and blew it. Went around the field again and thought I saw a white flash just before my Top Cap did two ail. rolls into a plowed field. I knew it was not me and later found stbd. ail. had seperated with all the hinges still in it and unbroken. They pulled clean out of the wing and were as slick at smooth plastic...no wood on the wing half of the hinges.

This plane had served well for about 3 years and most likely several hundred hours. Next time I will seal all control sufrace hinge gaps with monokote or ultracoat not just the elevator and rudder!

Anyone else had similar failure? Are the small Robart hinges better?

my old trainer (r.i.p. (not due to hinges)) was about 6 years old when I got it. I had to reglue all the hinges in it becuase the glue got too brittle and just gave up (the came out clean) after I found the rudder and one aileron like this I checked and sure enough they all were loose.

I was lucky I caught this before I had a problem (too bad that tree caught a few things of its own :P )

I don't really like CA hinges, I had a few come out on me...maybe it was my fault but I still am not too fond of em. I use those dubro nylon hinges...the one with the metal hinge point...just use some vaseline to keep it from getting locked up and epoxy the sob's in there. Also, I wouldn't worry about monokoting the hingegap unless you're experiencing an assload of flutter...just drill holes into the surface (ie elevator and horiz stab.) through the hinge and put a toothpick w/ epoxy through it...if the damn thing comes out after that...it just wasn't meant to fly.

Is this a plane that you built? And what kind of hinges were they?

IT DOSN'T MATTER WHAT HINGES YOU USE AS LONG AS YOU PIN 'EM
CHEERS
BRAD

Sealing the hinge gaps can help to keep the control surface on if the hinges do fail. On my TT profile extra, the hinges on one aileron pulled out slightly but I'm sure if I hadn't sealed the gaps I would be without it right now.

i lost a plane on 9-14-02 not due to a hinge failure but the plane did have a problem with hinges but theywere robart!

I use DuBro 1/4 scale hinges, and make them into a Piano Hinge....Then just for the heck of it I seal the gap..... I've had planes turn into piles of kindling..... but those hinges were still holding strong!!!!

I am just wondering what is meant by "sealing the gap"?

Thanks.

Sorry to be so late in reply, they were Sig Hinges or Great Planes, will not use either again.

Just installed Robart hinges in the rudder of a MW Extra, man thoses go in good and with the little center finder you can get they are a breeze hope they work well. I used Zap hinge glue on them.

Tim

PS seal the gap with Monokote so no air can get between. Easy to do and Monokote helps hinge action I am sure.

If you built the plane and maintain the plane and fly the plane then it was your fault!!!

How can the brand of hinge be the cause. You said that pulled straight out and were smooth with no glue on them. Did you rough them up before installing them? Did you use enough glue??

Also I learned a long time ago to pin them best insurance against hinge failure.


Not trying to start a major war over this but IMHO all crashes are the pilots fault.

Bradders- I would have to disagree. I just had a CA hinge break in half on my Twinstar even though it was pinned. It caused a majot flutter and I'm lucky I didn't lose the plane. I have had nothing but problems with CA hinges, I hate them!

Hey Crashem,

How often do you take your hinges out and check them or for that matter have you check the engine mounts in your car by removing the engine.

Some things are reasonable to perform maintenance on and some are not. It you give a tug to the control surfaces and they feel tight are you going to fly? I am, I also stated in my post that this airplane had seen several hundred hours. Was I surprised when the hinges failed...yes, I had never seen this failure before in anyones airplane.

Now, I have used these hinges before with only one failure and that was due to high speed flutter on a old Sig Kouger. I saved the plane that time by being lucky it was only the rudder that failed.

I really don't fly too many trike geared trainers anymore so maybe this is old hat to some having big control surfaces that move 45 degrees both ways. It is new to me and thought I would share my findings with all. If you want to blame me go ahead, it was my plane not yours. Also, don't pay attention to my advise on this, keep using those hinges and good luck.

As far as roughing up the hinge, I installed them by the directions and don't recalled either company stating one should rough before installation.

We are not in disagreement here, I am sure that when you crash your airplanes, that it is your fault too.

tlw427,

You better believe it... Every crash I've had is 100% my fault!!!!

And by the way I've lost a couple of plane to Hinge problems.

That's why I do usually rough em up and pin them with tooth picks!!!

As far a checking my car motor mounts I leave that to my mechanic.

When it comes to my model Airplanes I'm the Mechanic/Builder and Pilot so depending on went went wrong its either my fault as the mechanic/Builder or Pilot. See where I'm going with this.

And yes I do a very detailed preflight and service my birds on the bench regularly. And yes they still seem to crash and again I still think its my fault if for no other reason then I'm the one who decided to send it up..


As far as losing a plane I do understand the frustration..

At the risk of making you "madder" at me I did notice that you state the plane was 3yrs old with several hundred hours on it.

Full scale aircraft routinely require overhauls on airframe and engines based on hours of flight. What are your maintentance and overhaul procedures? As I'm sure you know aerobatic and fun fly planes when flown in the manner that they were designed take a beating from g forces. This does tend to take its toll on the airframe and associated components (i.e hinges, clevis, control horns)


Tlw427,

I just thought of two instances where A crash might not be the owner/operators fault

1. Getting Shotdown
2. A confirmed manufactured defect like the issue people where
having with the gp pitts arf

in this instances even though I would still shoulder some of the responsibility I would say it would be fair to say that the cash of the crash was beyond your control.

I had a Goldberg Ultimate, k&B .61, tuned pipe, 4 Klett small pinned hinges on each aileron - 16 total.

Had the club expert take it up - Flew it a couple of times - no problems. No flutter, just a little underpowered.

4th flight - making a wide slow turn, blue fluttering down from the sky. ONE hinge was still intact, the rest had BROKEN at the hinge line - NONE pulled out. Result - total reuseable parts filled a coffee cup.

Saw Goldberg at the AMA show - they backed away REAL fast, and I didn't even want a replacement of anything, just wanted to tell them about their quality control and testing. The only thing that kept them in their booth was that I was standing at the entrance to it. Hmmmmmmm

You can tear these hinges VERY easily, certainly not up to the standards I'd expect.

If you had klett hinges to do that there was something wrong with the hinge cutouts.I've used klett hinges for over 20 yrs and have never had one to fail.Your control surfaces had to be misaligned causing severe fluter for that to happen.There is a club member who has a giant bud nosen p-51 with klett hinges and it's flown on a regular basis.This plane is 14 yrs old and has never had a hinge to fail.All I'm saying here is there was something you over looked or did not notice when you were assembling the plane.Don't take this the wrong way but it happens to the best of us.I have a hanger 9 limited edition cap 232 and a elevator half was out of alignment.I did'nt notice it until I was checking the throws.Needless to say I had to remove the elevator half and install balsa plugs in the trailing edge and drill new holes for the robart hinges

Hey all,

I was reading the latest issue of RCM and it was recommended in one of the articles to NOT USE CA hinges in aircraft with large movement. Now in my mind CA hinges might be OK with the hinge line sealed with covering top and bottom. I still think the Robarts might be a better answer.

Does anyone have any suggestions on Robart hinges? I have hinges two elevators, one rudder and one aileron...they seem perfect so far.

I have toyed with the idea of a carbon fiber tube, full length hinge but have not figured a project for such a beast yet, it would be nice to have a full length support that would be removable to some degree.

You can use the dubro hinges, but instead of using the supplied pins use music wire which is almost as long as the control surface.Simply make a j bend at the end, cut a small slot in the end of the control surface.Sharpen the point on the j bend so you can push it in so that the wire is recessed or drill a hole for the wire.After all the covering is done and all of the control surfaces are on then put a small piece of covering over the wire at the end of the control surfaces.This way you can pin the hinges and still be able to remove the control surfaces in the future if needed and the wire fills the gap between the control surfaces.Also if you have any hinges not working freely you can replace them since they are installed before covering.You can also do this with robart hinges.You can buy them without pins and do the same set-up with the music wire.Just be sure to use the right size wire.Buy wire that is as close to the original size as possible.Normally it will be a few thousanths smaller.This kind of set-up works great and it makes repairs easier.Simply cut the covering and pull the wire out.

I had a older flyer give me the best tip on CA hinges. He said to use your wifes eyebrow pencil or a sharpened crayon to draw a line on both sides of the hinge where the line will be exactly on the hinge line. Put a pin thrpought the line and then glue them in. The wax will keep the CA from wicking over the line and also will not let that area (the LIne) get any CA so it will not get brittle. When all done you will not have the stiffenss or a cracking sound to break them losse. They will not fatique and they stay real good. Put a dressmaker pin on both sides and you will havbe a hinge that will outlast the plane. I do it , it works and his name was Jack Deslisle.

I would investigate the cause of the crash further. The plane should have kept flying even without the aileron. The opposite aileron should have had plenty of influence to correct for the missing one.

Tatoo, I think it would have but the contorl horn and rod did not let go! The aileron went vertical and was twisting around...I figured it must have been deflecting too much air for the other one to conter

aaaaaaHHH!!! That makes sense! If it stayed attached but the hinges gave...yep...you were doomed...

The reason I brought this up is because I've flown some pretty banged up combat planes that have lost ailerons in mid-airs...and have been shocked to see the plane continue flying just fine!