Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
01-29-2004, 11:09 PM
#26
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Antonio,
TX
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
I saw the same situation about 4 years ago. F-16 split s, but the pilot did not eject, and it pancaked at a couple hundred mph. Very sad.
01-31-2004, 02:11 AM
#27
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
Two things:
First, the F-16 can and will depart from controlled flight. The system will let you assault one limiter, but not two. Second I suspect the video of the in-cockpit ejection is old. The pilot is wearing a helmet and mask that havenn't been used by the USAF for ten years or so....
First, the F-16 can and will depart from controlled flight. The system will let you assault one limiter, but not two. Second I suspect the video of the in-cockpit ejection is old. The pilot is wearing a helmet and mask that havenn't been used by the USAF for ten years or so....
01-31-2004, 04:04 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
ORIGINAL: juvatwad
Two things:
First, the F-16 can and will depart from controlled flight. The system will let you assault one limiter, but not two. Second I suspect the video of the in-cockpit ejection is old. The pilot is wearing a helmet and mask that havenn't been used by the USAF for ten years or so....
Two things:
First, the F-16 can and will depart from controlled flight. The system will let you assault one limiter, but not two. Second I suspect the video of the in-cockpit ejection is old. The pilot is wearing a helmet and mask that havenn't been used by the USAF for ten years or so....
01-31-2004, 10:08 AM
#29
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: , NY
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
That video most certainly is of the Idaho crash, and has been discussed over at F-16.net
The still photo is also real, and was taken by SSgt Bennie J. Davis III, Still Photographer, USAF,
whom has identified himself as such over at F-16.net
If you browse over at the F-16 website, you will also find some stills of the F-16 T-Bird wreckage sitting in the hangar.
The still photo is also real, and was taken by SSgt Bennie J. Davis III, Still Photographer, USAF,
whom has identified himself as such over at F-16.net
If you browse over at the F-16 website, you will also find some stills of the F-16 T-Bird wreckage sitting in the hangar.
01-31-2004, 01:16 PM
#30
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
If that's a current video, then #6 went retro. We haven't used anything other than the HGU-55 or HGU-55CE in the viper for at least 10 years. I never paid much attention to the Thunderbirds when I was active duty, but maybe they utilize older equipment. I would find that hard to believe, though, given the AF's unyielding attention to equipment regs and T.O.'s. Does anyone know for certain? Do any of you out there work life support at Nellis??
02-01-2004, 02:37 AM
#33
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Memphis,
TN
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
The first calls are "Smoke on... Ready... Now..." They practice so much that they get into a rithym with that call. That way they are all on cue. The guy talking is the lead pilot. He's saying things like, "a little more pull..." and such to make sure that they don't loose each other in formation. Then, when the plane crashed, you hear one of the crewman on the ground, most likely the guy that acts as their ATC, telling them to knock it off. They all call out "Number ...whatever.... knocking off". You can hear them going in order. It's to make sure they all got the call.
02-02-2004, 06:19 AM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
And the plane was stalled at the time if the picture, because it was not flying anymore and was heading straight down in a horizontal position.
and that looks like normal equipment for the T-birds.. didnt see anything out of the ordinary.
02-02-2004, 10:59 AM
#35
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Posts: 6,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
ORIGINAL: Spadinator
They stop the shows immediately!!!! I was present at a TB crash at Hill AFB when a T-38 stalled and crashed into a barn killing the pilot. The show was over.....very sad for the pilot and his family.[
]
They stop the shows immediately!!!! I was present at a TB crash at Hill AFB when a T-38 stalled and crashed into a barn killing the pilot. The show was over.....very sad for the pilot and his family.[
]
Thats on e of the differences of shows here in the states. I was at the Duxford air show last summer when the Fairey Firefly went in. They stopped the show temporarily until one of the fire trucks was back from the crash sites, then they resumed the show. They had to wait for the fire truck so they had one on standby, "just in case" something else happened.
02-05-2004, 11:37 PM
#37
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bentonville,
AR
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
In the ground video the first time the ground controller said "knock it off" it sounded like he said it over the PA system to the fans and then said it over the radio to the aircraft. I'm no expert over thunderbirds procedures but i am pretty sure the announcers voice along with radio communications are recorded thats why he said "knock it off" twice. If you notice immediately after the second "knock it off" the planes started responding immediately. Thank god the pilot made it out ok and no one on the ground was injured.
02-06-2004, 01:13 PM
#38
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
ORIGINAL: Lord
I would assume he is not a Thunderbird anymore? 1,000 ft is a big error in that business!
Bill
[link=http://www.rob.com/matt/videos/Thunderbird.mpg]In cockpit video[/link]
I would assume he is not a Thunderbird anymore? 1,000 ft is a big error in that business!
Bill
[link=http://www.rob.com/matt/videos/Thunderbird.mpg]In cockpit video[/link]
Lord,
You hit the nail right on the head. Ever since that accident, the T-birds have been doing 5-jet shows.
Jake
02-06-2004, 01:21 PM
#39
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
All,
First of all, let me clarify: This was pilot error, and this was truly a Thunderbird pilot in a regular jet. No different equipment. And, at the top of the loop, the pilot is supposed to check his altitude and determine if it is safe to continue with the manuever. If not, the pilot should abort the manuever by rolling out. However, the pilot failed to check for that altitude at the predetermined point. He did, however, check his altitude and flight path. Since he had already passed the proverbial "point of no return" he had no choice but to continue with the loop. If he would have rolled out later on in the manuever, he would have used up too much altitude, and would either auger straight in, or have hit the same way, only 180 degrees in the other direction. I hope that's not too hard to follow.
Jake
First of all, let me clarify: This was pilot error, and this was truly a Thunderbird pilot in a regular jet. No different equipment. And, at the top of the loop, the pilot is supposed to check his altitude and determine if it is safe to continue with the manuever. If not, the pilot should abort the manuever by rolling out. However, the pilot failed to check for that altitude at the predetermined point. He did, however, check his altitude and flight path. Since he had already passed the proverbial "point of no return" he had no choice but to continue with the loop. If he would have rolled out later on in the manuever, he would have used up too much altitude, and would either auger straight in, or have hit the same way, only 180 degrees in the other direction. I hope that's not too hard to follow.
Jake
02-06-2004, 01:41 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dallas,
TX
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
Makes a lot of sense Thunderbird. Did I hear correctly that the pilot also may not have set his altimeter to reflect the altitude of the airfield they were flying from? If so, I would have thought the that F-16 would ave some way of warning the pilot of such. The fact that the pilot is able to change the attitude while still dealing with the effect of inertia (sliding through a turn) is a testimony to the agility of today's fighters. Next thing you know, they will be performing 3D stunts.
What a shame that a pilot of his record will be remembered from this video.
By the way, when i first saw the ejection photo, I thought it might be a fake. There seems to be a lot of doctored photos these days. I was a little surprised at the way people jumped on the guy who respectfully questioned it.
What a shame that a pilot of his record will be remembered from this video.
By the way, when i first saw the ejection photo, I thought it might be a fake. There seems to be a lot of doctored photos these days. I was a little surprised at the way people jumped on the guy who respectfully questioned it.
02-07-2004, 01:36 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: armagh,
PA
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
In the ground video the first time the ground controller said "knock it off" it sounded like he said it over the PA system to the fans and then said it over the radio to the aircraft. I'm no expert over thunderbirds procedures but i am pretty sure the announcers voice along with radio communications are recorded thats why he said "knock it off" twice. If you notice immediately after the second "knock it off" the planes started responding immediately. Thank god the pilot made it out ok and no one on the ground was injured.
02-07-2004, 09:37 PM
#44
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fairport, NY,
Posts: 775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
No thrust vectoring on those anyway. I believe that thrust vectoring developed using one or more modified F16s. There was also an experimental high performance wing version too. Neither was put into was put into service though.
02-08-2004, 11:10 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ,
MI
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Thunderbird Idaho Ejection
A plausible explanation for the altitude error is the pilot may have very well forgotten to adjust the altimeter for barometric changes that happened between this flight and a previous one earler that day.
As for removing the pilot from the Thunderbird program what a mistake. The Air Force just spent $20.4 million on training him about the hazards of low level maneuvers and correct altitude management.
As for removing the pilot from the Thunderbird program what a mistake. The Air Force just spent $20.4 million on training him about the hazards of low level maneuvers and correct altitude management.