Alcoholism
09-19-2006, 08:16 PM
#1
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Alcoholism
I am sorry to have to post this, but I feel that it's my duty to say something when a close mishap takes place. In this case, a pilot drank a considerable amount of liquor before visiting the field. He managed to get one flight in, testing out a few new stunts at higher altitudes. The person then went back to their vehicle, and took in a few more drinks and proceeded back to the field. The subject refueled the plane, only this time shouting and flying the plane very erratically. It flew over my head while I had my plane up, so I cautiously landed immediately and proceeded to pack it in for the night. I watched as the subject attempted a landing of their craft, which hit a tree and spiraled into some brush nearby.
Much like the bomber in another thread, this could have been a close call. Thankfully, the plane was at least 40 feet above my head when it went over me. However, if judgement was lacking it could have been considerably lower and I could be in the hospital. I have spent a considerable amount of time studying accidents that involve batteries, transmitters, receivers, and linkages. A discharged battery on a transmitter can be one of the most dangerous events to happen at the field, as there is no predicting what the plane might do. It could fly out of sight, or it could go into the pits or spectators as happened on at least one occasion, if not a couple. Whether gas or electric, these machines often weigh in excess of 10 pounds, and are swinging a prop at 13,000 RPM with enough power to run an industrial wood shaper, router, or table saw. And they easily exceed 50 MPH in speed, often times going over 100. But this time, it was not a mechanical or electronic problem that was involved. It was an accident that resulted from a lack of judgement due to the excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages. Alcohol and flying, whether it's full-scale or even R/C just don't mix. It is imperative to stay away from the booze before heading to the field. Thanks for your time.
NorfolkSouthern
Much like the bomber in another thread, this could have been a close call. Thankfully, the plane was at least 40 feet above my head when it went over me. However, if judgement was lacking it could have been considerably lower and I could be in the hospital. I have spent a considerable amount of time studying accidents that involve batteries, transmitters, receivers, and linkages. A discharged battery on a transmitter can be one of the most dangerous events to happen at the field, as there is no predicting what the plane might do. It could fly out of sight, or it could go into the pits or spectators as happened on at least one occasion, if not a couple. Whether gas or electric, these machines often weigh in excess of 10 pounds, and are swinging a prop at 13,000 RPM with enough power to run an industrial wood shaper, router, or table saw. And they easily exceed 50 MPH in speed, often times going over 100. But this time, it was not a mechanical or electronic problem that was involved. It was an accident that resulted from a lack of judgement due to the excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages. Alcohol and flying, whether it's full-scale or even R/C just don't mix. It is imperative to stay away from the booze before heading to the field. Thanks for your time.
NorfolkSouthern
09-19-2006, 10:13 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
That is worse than any other irresponsibility I have heard of out at the field. I feel it is high time you as the potential victim, exercise some initiative and make sure this fellow does not ever consume alcohol and pilot any RC aircraft in your or anybody else's presence. This is something you need to get other people involved and put a stop to. Even one drink can impair the eye hand coordination of anyone and someone is going to get hurt!
09-19-2006, 11:07 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Well, the first flight was successful, and the person stayed on proper side of the runway. But after a few more swigs of that whiskey, all bets were off. A part of the trouble, though, is that this person appears to have quite a few friends who go to the same field. So, I'm not even sure how I could address the problem. I'm almost tempted to pack it in for the rest of the season, and then poney up the cash for the established club with the paved runway. If that means I have to get a horse trailer and a 50cc engine to be a part of the "crowd", then so be it. I can live with a red and white elephant in my apartment as long as the other flyers are sober!
NorfolkSouthern
NorfolkSouthern
09-19-2006, 11:41 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
NorfolkSouthern,
Go join the 'other' club and stay alive! You can get a 50cc airplane into any pickup, a sedan and even a hatchback, but you will not need one. I fly with a bunch of Giant Scale IMAC guys, (trailers, $$$$ and all), and although they are unpopular with some of the warbird guys, they are the nicest, most helpful group or clique in the club.
Drinking and flying at an RC field is just plain stupid. Just pay the dues and go fly with a more respectable group. There is a reason for high entry fees to many places, including Disneyland, popular night clubs, private campgrounds and some RC clubs.....it's to keep the 'riff-raff' out. I hate to say it, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I am a member of 3 clubs with annual dues as follows: $200, $285 and $250 (First year) and $100, $65 and $150 (All following years). It's worth every penny to have frequency control, paved runways, well maintained facilities, restrooms, a wealth of knowledge and experience, superior flyers, shade, tables, a telephone and a first-aid kit.
If you see him drinking there again, call the cops and have him arrested for public intoxication and possibly DUI. He could crash that plane or his car into a school bus and you would likely end-up feeling more guilty than he would; even though it wasn't your fault.
Just my 2 cents.
Go join the 'other' club and stay alive! You can get a 50cc airplane into any pickup, a sedan and even a hatchback, but you will not need one. I fly with a bunch of Giant Scale IMAC guys, (trailers, $$$$ and all), and although they are unpopular with some of the warbird guys, they are the nicest, most helpful group or clique in the club.
Drinking and flying at an RC field is just plain stupid. Just pay the dues and go fly with a more respectable group. There is a reason for high entry fees to many places, including Disneyland, popular night clubs, private campgrounds and some RC clubs.....it's to keep the 'riff-raff' out. I hate to say it, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I am a member of 3 clubs with annual dues as follows: $200, $285 and $250 (First year) and $100, $65 and $150 (All following years). It's worth every penny to have frequency control, paved runways, well maintained facilities, restrooms, a wealth of knowledge and experience, superior flyers, shade, tables, a telephone and a first-aid kit.
If you see him drinking there again, call the cops and have him arrested for public intoxication and possibly DUI. He could crash that plane or his car into a school bus and you would likely end-up feeling more guilty than he would; even though it wasn't your fault.
Just my 2 cents.
09-20-2006, 04:34 AM
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RE: Alcoholism
NorfolkSouthern,
What did you do to stop this illegal act? All you have to do is call 911 and report it. The Police will do the rest. This is something that can not be allowed. People like this cause injury and death all the time. I know, because I'm a Police Officer. No one has to put up with this kind of abuse. I hope this guy gets straightened out before something bad happens. Good luck to you in the future.
What did you do to stop this illegal act? All you have to do is call 911 and report it. The Police will do the rest. This is something that can not be allowed. People like this cause injury and death all the time. I know, because I'm a Police Officer. No one has to put up with this kind of abuse. I hope this guy gets straightened out before something bad happens. Good luck to you in the future.
09-20-2006, 05:55 AM
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RE: Alcoholism
If anything, he needs to face the board in closed quarters. If you have club meetings, go and bring this issue up. You don't have to give names, just bring it up. Friends of his or not, if they value their lives and club membership, then they'll do something about it. If they're all a bunch of drunks at the field, then you don't want to be a part of this club anyway.
We have an officer that's showed up at a couple of our meetings with alcohol on his breath... The other officers gave him an ***** chewing and told him to straighten out or GET OUT. Nobody need tolerate crap like this.
MPB
We have an officer that's showed up at a couple of our meetings with alcohol on his breath... The other officers gave him an ***** chewing and told him to straighten out or GET OUT. Nobody need tolerate crap like this.
MPB
09-20-2006, 05:57 AM
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RE: Alcoholism
I am in agreement with Flak. I've been following this thread and was wondering when someone was going to suggest one word, "action". Someone should have taken charge and addressed this situation at once and not allowed it to evolve into anything potentially threatening. If there were no club officers at the field, we all have cell phones, one could have been contacted regarding this situation and then the proper authorities informed or if nothing else, one of the members could have confronted/informed the individual that this behavior wasn't allowed or tolerated. There's a big difference between alcoholism and irresponsible behavior but the two can and do often go together. Either way, this should have been stopped at once and not allowed to become dangerous.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
09-20-2006, 07:55 AM
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RE: Alcoholism
What bothers me, is that you DIDNT take action.
Rather, you let this person DRIVE himself away in his state. I have a couple of cop buddies, I would have been on the phone in an instant and called them out. The second he started that truck, he would have been arrested. DUI + open container.
To be honest, your lack of action was far more dangerous for more people than his actions at the field.
Rather, you let this person DRIVE himself away in his state. I have a couple of cop buddies, I would have been on the phone in an instant and called them out. The second he started that truck, he would have been arrested. DUI + open container.
To be honest, your lack of action was far more dangerous for more people than his actions at the field.
09-20-2006, 12:14 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Norfolk,
I feal ya man... I'm gonna try to walk the line here a little. I think your probably like most and don't want to be the "Hall Monitor" and start s#!t for people (the pay sucks and you don't find yourself being added to people's X-mas lists) but the boys are right you need to put an end to that crap. Its been my experience that most things in life a pretty subtle until that split second where things get BAD. In the long run you will know you did the right thing, trust me, and this guy not a big deal today but next time...
I feal ya man... I'm gonna try to walk the line here a little. I think your probably like most and don't want to be the "Hall Monitor" and start s#!t for people (the pay sucks and you don't find yourself being added to people's X-mas lists) but the boys are right you need to put an end to that crap. Its been my experience that most things in life a pretty subtle until that split second where things get BAD. In the long run you will know you did the right thing, trust me, and this guy not a big deal today but next time...
09-20-2006, 01:25 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
All that "action" talk is fine and all, but this is a very delicate situation. Other than calling the police or a club officer what authority does N.S. really have? We have all seen the irrational drunk that easily becomes confrontational, I am sure he doesn't need that kind of trouble. He could have approached the other pilot and said something only to be told to go to he!!, then what? It wasn't exactly clear from the post, but it sounds like this is just a group of buddies flying at an open field. There may not be an established club procedure to handle such a situation. We play with dangerous models, and each modeler is expected to act with a high degree of personal responsibility. When that is not the case it causes problems.
As far as calling the cops is concerned we need to be careful with that as well. I don't know how it is where you fly, but around here, any publicity is bad publicity. RC flying fields are lost every day for a variety of reasons. We do our very best to fly under the radar and have a limited impact on the surrounding area. The last thing we need to do is add the perception that we are potentially a group of out of control drunks flying unguided missiles around the sky.
Let's be very clear, I am NOT advocating that you do nothing!!! I am just suggesting that you are very careful in how you ultimately decide to handle it. As a fraternity of RC enthusiasts this is all of our problem. You may want to contact the AMA and find out what they would suggest. It only takes one careless mistake to shut down a club, and we know very well how the media loves to take stories like this and run with them.
Thank you
Anthony
As far as calling the cops is concerned we need to be careful with that as well. I don't know how it is where you fly, but around here, any publicity is bad publicity. RC flying fields are lost every day for a variety of reasons. We do our very best to fly under the radar and have a limited impact on the surrounding area. The last thing we need to do is add the perception that we are potentially a group of out of control drunks flying unguided missiles around the sky.
Let's be very clear, I am NOT advocating that you do nothing!!! I am just suggesting that you are very careful in how you ultimately decide to handle it. As a fraternity of RC enthusiasts this is all of our problem. You may want to contact the AMA and find out what they would suggest. It only takes one careless mistake to shut down a club, and we know very well how the media loves to take stories like this and run with them.
Thank you
Anthony
09-20-2006, 02:07 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
The thought of losing the field wouldnt bother me one bit.
What would bother me, and why losign the field wouldnt, is finding out that he got ina wreck and killed someone/himself. Then I get to live with that for the rest of my life...knowing that I could have stopped it.
Everyone is so self centered these days, and that post proves it. It sounds good on the surface, but its really all about preserving things YOU like over doing what you should do.
If it meant a fight, it meant a fight. If thats what it came to to keep a drunk from driving, I would fight till i fell or won...but I would do my most to stop him from driving. I know he might not have been slobering drunk, but thats not the point. If he was noticably drunk, he was too drunk to drive.
Im all for drinking, hell, I get drunk as good as the next guy, but I DONT DRIVE AT ALL.
Sorry...I lost my 3 best friends at once after high school because some pissed-at-the-world vietnam vet was too good to take a cab...so yeah, i have issues with stuff like that.
What would bother me, and why losign the field wouldnt, is finding out that he got ina wreck and killed someone/himself. Then I get to live with that for the rest of my life...knowing that I could have stopped it.
Everyone is so self centered these days, and that post proves it. It sounds good on the surface, but its really all about preserving things YOU like over doing what you should do.
If it meant a fight, it meant a fight. If thats what it came to to keep a drunk from driving, I would fight till i fell or won...but I would do my most to stop him from driving. I know he might not have been slobering drunk, but thats not the point. If he was noticably drunk, he was too drunk to drive.
Im all for drinking, hell, I get drunk as good as the next guy, but I DONT DRIVE AT ALL.
Sorry...I lost my 3 best friends at once after high school because some pissed-at-the-world vietnam vet was too good to take a cab...so yeah, i have issues with stuff like that.
09-20-2006, 03:19 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
To be honest here, if you were to fight a person as drunk as N.S. is describing, unless they are Lennox Lewis or someone like that, you would win. Quicker reactions and all that. In reflection I would agree however the flying site is not as important as any human life, it is our duty to report DUI for the good of everyone.
09-20-2006, 04:58 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Hey fellas, I am going to play devil's advocate here. While it may be morally and socially wrong to drink and drive,who's to say it's any of my bizzness.I have myself a cool one after I get done flying' cause B-4, during,and after ev'ry sporting event ; what do people do___ have a drink if they chose. Also what if this guy shows up next time w/ a lead thrower__ you know what I mean to get even. People are stressed out nowadays thanks to all the current events goin' on. I, myself, I'm one of those people. The reason I left the old field I was a member of was because of all the __ holes that were there and they were GRADE "A" too. Calling me crakhead, stupid, dumb,racial slurs, you name it just because I like maintaining the field to a high standard using my own gas, equipment, time and money while they make excuses why they can't help__ pick one __ I've heard them all. So I said to heck w/ this [:'(] I don't have to take it. I could have easily went the other way, but my freedom is worth more to me than them __ holes. So luckily, I have found a new POSITIVE place to fly w/o all the B.S. associated w/ AMA clubs. And that's not the first "club" I 've been to that has treated me and my guest that way. Also if every one wants to get on thier high-horse, then I got a whole laundry list of things YOU can solve. Furthermore my motto is " Live and Let Live". While I don't agree w/ everything everyone does, sometimes it's noneya. Obviously if NFS wanted to join the "Clique", he would have did it from the beginning. So I sympathise w/ him. The "Clique" can cause you to think and do irrational things. So call the Cops on somebody, BUT don't[sm=cry_smile.gif] when somebody takes down your plate number and sics them on you for talking on the cellphone while driving, which I see every day!!!!!! JMO Rob
09-20-2006, 05:02 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Boys,
First of all what the he!! are you guys talkin about, fighting and wether you could win or not... Give me a break, how old are we??? What do we pay taxes for? Flak said it earlier call the pros and let them do their job end of story. You don't go and fight with the guy... are you losin it? Did you guys want to end up in the same squad with the drunk?? Shall I call Jerry Springer for ya??
By the way when you call the police they are not going to give out your info, jump up and down like little girls and say "He's the one who told, He's the one who told!!"
Hey NS if the end result is the area gets closed to you, OR you stop going what's the difference??
RMJ No offence buddy but, I lost friends in High School in the same way, so I feel ya man, but that Vietnam stuff let it go. Those guys have a whole world of S#!T to deal with that you and I couldn't even imagine. Die for your country and be hated when you finally get out of there... let it go.
First of all what the he!! are you guys talkin about, fighting and wether you could win or not... Give me a break, how old are we??? What do we pay taxes for? Flak said it earlier call the pros and let them do their job end of story. You don't go and fight with the guy... are you losin it? Did you guys want to end up in the same squad with the drunk?? Shall I call Jerry Springer for ya??
By the way when you call the police they are not going to give out your info, jump up and down like little girls and say "He's the one who told, He's the one who told!!"
Hey NS if the end result is the area gets closed to you, OR you stop going what's the difference??
RMJ No offence buddy but, I lost friends in High School in the same way, so I feel ya man, but that Vietnam stuff let it go. Those guys have a whole world of S#!T to deal with that you and I couldn't even imagine. Die for your country and be hated when you finally get out of there... let it go.
09-20-2006, 06:08 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Calling the cops would have been impossible at the time, because I did not have a cell phone with me and there are no phones in the park. It is an extremely delicate situation, as a couple others have said. About the only thing I can do at this point, is discuss it with one of the club officers and see what he has to say. If they think I'm "meddling", then I have done all I could and it's time for me to look for another field. On the other hand, if they do something about it like getting the guy into some sort of treatment, then I will have possibly saved someone else from a tragic situation later. Him and his friend were still there when I left, and I'm hoping his friend had a good talk about this problem. Heaven forbid if they were talking about me instead. There are other clubs, other fields, and even other hobbies should it come down to it.
There are two things here. One, is my own safety. I cannot and will not place myself in a compromise situation that could cost me great bodily harm or perhaps my life, and then someone else's later. I could either get shot or beat to death first, and then he could crash into a school bus later, for example. I also have to consider the safety of others in the club and their retention of a place to fly. At this point, I am doing the best I can by asking for advice while emphasizing the importance of avoiding alcohol while flying. Have there been others who had similar experiences? If so, how was it handled?
NorfolkSouthern
There are two things here. One, is my own safety. I cannot and will not place myself in a compromise situation that could cost me great bodily harm or perhaps my life, and then someone else's later. I could either get shot or beat to death first, and then he could crash into a school bus later, for example. I also have to consider the safety of others in the club and their retention of a place to fly. At this point, I am doing the best I can by asking for advice while emphasizing the importance of avoiding alcohol while flying. Have there been others who had similar experiences? If so, how was it handled?
NorfolkSouthern
09-20-2006, 06:41 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
I would report the incident to the club officers, if they are responsible then they should take action. The question of fighting people, well as arrow IV said, it is rather childlike. To make the point I tried to make earlier clearer (if not) you should not be that concerned of get an ar*e whooping from a drunk person it is very unlikely.
If the club fail to take action or worse get shirty with you then join another club, you have the right to fly knowing that your fellow flyers are sensible people who will crash then plane in to the ground before you.
If I came across the same situation at my field, I would call the park ranger, as my field is inside a county park and has a strict no alcohol rule. After that I would report said person to the club and let them deal with him.
On the cell phone thing, my club is located a good few miles from any real civilisation and I would not think of going there without my phone, in case of emergancy on the way to or from. There is a phone somewhere in the club not that I know where.
J
If the club fail to take action or worse get shirty with you then join another club, you have the right to fly knowing that your fellow flyers are sensible people who will crash then plane in to the ground before you.
If I came across the same situation at my field, I would call the park ranger, as my field is inside a county park and has a strict no alcohol rule. After that I would report said person to the club and let them deal with him.
On the cell phone thing, my club is located a good few miles from any real civilisation and I would not think of going there without my phone, in case of emergancy on the way to or from. There is a phone somewhere in the club not that I know where.
J
09-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
NFS, my question__ do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? 1st Amendment rights. No I wouldn't want to be in that situation w/ the guys but like everything else, I pretty sure this wasn't the 1st time. Ask around, you'll see. And yes,I have been in the same situation and been accused of flying while drinking. Obviously not true 'cause I don't have any disposable planes. As far as my handling of the situation, we calmly spoke to the guy about how we would like to keep flying here and that a cop usually comes by like clockwork to check us out for the sake of curiosity. So he needs to take a chill pill on the beer. Also how is he gonna explain to his spouse how he went flying and come home locked up. Didn't happen again. Thanx, Rob
09-20-2006, 07:06 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Taken directly from the AMA Safety Code:
"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol." Most clubs around do not own the property that they fly on, but lease it from a private individual or even a municipality. I would be willing to bet most of these leases were obtained in part because of the charter granted by the AMA, and the safety standards handed down as part of that charter. It is everyone's responsibility to address the use or abuse of alcohol by a pilot at the field. If something were to happen and the incident resulted in injury, or even worse, death (yes, our hobby has been and can be lethal), those leases would disappear and be harder to come by. Adding alcohol to the mix just increases the liklihood of a mishap. I was a member of a club many years ago, and I'm going to go ahead and say the name since so much time has gone by and their field has since become a FEMA trailer park. The club was Tammany Aero Club in Covington, LA. At some point around 1991 or 1992 the club became overrun by people who thought it was fun to get drunk and run their "indestructible" planes into each other. The last straw was when we were packing up our gear one day, and one of these aircraft slammed into the roof of the shed covering the pits. This prompted my father to start a writing campaign to the AMA asking what would happen if a claim was made on the AMA insurance policy if it came out that the pilot was intoxicated and intentionally running his airplane into another. After a couple of back and forth letters with HQ, the final statement was made that if either one were involved in an incident, the AMA would probably not cover the pilot, or the club. The next step was to propose two separate amendments to the club constitution stating that drinking by pilots would be prohibited, and limiting combat to using streamers. The voter turnout at the meeting made it the largest attendance we ever had, and both amendments were shot down. Me, my father, and about 7 or 8 others (some club officers) got up and walked out. We never went back to fly at that field, formed our own club, and moved on. The next year what is now rule #9 in the AMA safety code was added. Our sport/hobby has enough trouble maintaining fields and gaining community acceptance, we don't need to bring on any further scrutiny by not obeying the rules we all agreed to when we became AMA members.
"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol." Most clubs around do not own the property that they fly on, but lease it from a private individual or even a municipality. I would be willing to bet most of these leases were obtained in part because of the charter granted by the AMA, and the safety standards handed down as part of that charter. It is everyone's responsibility to address the use or abuse of alcohol by a pilot at the field. If something were to happen and the incident resulted in injury, or even worse, death (yes, our hobby has been and can be lethal), those leases would disappear and be harder to come by. Adding alcohol to the mix just increases the liklihood of a mishap. I was a member of a club many years ago, and I'm going to go ahead and say the name since so much time has gone by and their field has since become a FEMA trailer park. The club was Tammany Aero Club in Covington, LA. At some point around 1991 or 1992 the club became overrun by people who thought it was fun to get drunk and run their "indestructible" planes into each other. The last straw was when we were packing up our gear one day, and one of these aircraft slammed into the roof of the shed covering the pits. This prompted my father to start a writing campaign to the AMA asking what would happen if a claim was made on the AMA insurance policy if it came out that the pilot was intoxicated and intentionally running his airplane into another. After a couple of back and forth letters with HQ, the final statement was made that if either one were involved in an incident, the AMA would probably not cover the pilot, or the club. The next step was to propose two separate amendments to the club constitution stating that drinking by pilots would be prohibited, and limiting combat to using streamers. The voter turnout at the meeting made it the largest attendance we ever had, and both amendments were shot down. Me, my father, and about 7 or 8 others (some club officers) got up and walked out. We never went back to fly at that field, formed our own club, and moved on. The next year what is now rule #9 in the AMA safety code was added. Our sport/hobby has enough trouble maintaining fields and gaining community acceptance, we don't need to bring on any further scrutiny by not obeying the rules we all agreed to when we became AMA members.
09-20-2006, 07:12 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
ORIGINAL: LonestarMan
Hey fellas, I am going to play devil's advocate here. While it may be morally and socially wrong to drink and drive,who's to say it's any of my bizzness.I have myself a cool one after I get done flying' cause B-4, during,and after ev'ry sporting event ; what do people do___ have a drink if they chose. Also what if this guy shows up next time w/ a lead thrower__ you know what I mean to get even. People are stressed out nowadays thanks to all the current events goin' on. I, myself, I'm one of those people. The reason I left the old field I was a member of was because of all the __ holes that were there and they were GRADE "A" too. Calling me crakhead, stupid, dumb,racial slurs, you name it just because I like maintaining the field to a high standard using my own gas, equipment, time and money while they make excuses why they can't help__ pick one __ I've heard them all. So I said to heck w/ this [:'(] I don't have to take it. I could have easily went the other way, but my freedom is worth more to me than them __ holes. So luckily, I have found a new POSITIVE place to fly w/o all the B.S. associated w/ AMA clubs. And that's not the first "club" I 've been to that has treated me and my guest that way. Also if every one wants to get on thier high-horse, then I got a whole laundry list of things YOU can solve. Furthermore my motto is " Live and Let Live". While I don't agree w/ everything everyone does, sometimes it's noneya. Obviously if NFS wanted to join the "Clique", he would have did it from the beginning. So I sympathise w/ him. The "Clique" can cause you to think and do irrational things. So call the Cops on somebody, BUT don't[sm=cry_smile.gif] when somebody takes down your plate number and sics them on you for talking on the cellphone while driving, which I see every day!!!!!! JMO Rob
Hey fellas, I am going to play devil's advocate here. While it may be morally and socially wrong to drink and drive,who's to say it's any of my bizzness.I have myself a cool one after I get done flying' cause B-4, during,and after ev'ry sporting event ; what do people do___ have a drink if they chose. Also what if this guy shows up next time w/ a lead thrower__ you know what I mean to get even. People are stressed out nowadays thanks to all the current events goin' on. I, myself, I'm one of those people. The reason I left the old field I was a member of was because of all the __ holes that were there and they were GRADE "A" too. Calling me crakhead, stupid, dumb,racial slurs, you name it just because I like maintaining the field to a high standard using my own gas, equipment, time and money while they make excuses why they can't help__ pick one __ I've heard them all. So I said to heck w/ this [:'(] I don't have to take it. I could have easily went the other way, but my freedom is worth more to me than them __ holes. So luckily, I have found a new POSITIVE place to fly w/o all the B.S. associated w/ AMA clubs. And that's not the first "club" I 've been to that has treated me and my guest that way. Also if every one wants to get on thier high-horse, then I got a whole laundry list of things YOU can solve. Furthermore my motto is " Live and Let Live". While I don't agree w/ everything everyone does, sometimes it's noneya. Obviously if NFS wanted to join the "Clique", he would have did it from the beginning. So I sympathise w/ him. The "Clique" can cause you to think and do irrational things. So call the Cops on somebody, BUT don't[sm=cry_smile.gif] when somebody takes down your plate number and sics them on you for talking on the cellphone while driving, which I see every day!!!!!! JMO Rob
09-20-2006, 07:42 PM
#21
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RE: Alcoholism
[quote]ORIGINAL: agexpert
NorfolkSouthern,
Go join the 'other' club and stay alive! You can get a 50cc airplane into any pickup, a sedan and even a hatchback, but you will not need one. I fly with a bunch of Giant Scale IMAC guys, (trailers, $$$$ and all), and although they are unpopular with some of the warbird guys, they are the nicest, most helpful group or clique in the club.
Drinking and flying at an RC field is just plain stupid. Just pay the dues and go fly with a more respectable group. There is a reason for high entry fees to many places, including Disneyland, popular night clubs, private campgrounds and some RC clubs.....it's to keep the 'riff-raff' out. I hate to say it, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I am a member of 3 clubs with annual dues as follows: $200, $285 and $250 (First year) and $100, $65 and $150 (All following years). It's worth every penny to have frequency control, paved runways, well maintained facilities, restrooms, a wealth of knowledge and experience, superior flyers, shade, tables, a telephone and a first-aid kit.
If you see him drinking there again, call the cops and have him arrested for public intoxication and possibly DUI. He could crash that plane or his car into a school bus and you would likely end-up feeling more guilty than he would; even though it wasn't your fault.
Just my 2 cents.
Ageexpert, everyone doesn't have a unlimited amount of "resources" like some other people. Myself, I'm on a budget. My other option was I was gonna sell all my planes etc. to the bare walls; get a sim and learn how to fly helis___ no runway needed at the local park.
09-20-2006, 07:57 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Mjfrederick, once again while I agree it is morally and socially wrong to violate said policy(es) I think we all have not followed i] EVERY[/i] rule AMA has put out and besides where does it end. That's why I had to find myself a new place to fly. I got sick of the ___holes Thanx, Rob
P.S. If you go to the Giant Scale forum and check out the B-25 crash, you will see what I mean and I recollect these are sober,of age, seasoned pilots at a "AMA" field.......
P.S. If you go to the Giant Scale forum and check out the B-25 crash, you will see what I mean and I recollect these are sober,of age, seasoned pilots at a "AMA" field.......
ORIGINAL: mjfrederick
Taken directly from the AMA Safety Code:
"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol." Most clubs around do not own the property that they fly on, but lease it from a private individual or even a municipality. I would be willing to bet most of these leases were obtained in part because of the charter granted by the AMA, and the safety standards handed down as part of that charter. It is everyone's responsibility to address the use or abuse of alcohol by a pilot at the field. If something were to happen and the incident resulted in injury, or even worse, death (yes, our hobby has been and can be lethal), those leases would disappear and be harder to come by. Adding alcohol to the mix just increases the liklihood of a mishap. I was a member of a club many years ago, and I'm going to go ahead and say the name since so much time has gone by and their field has since become a FEMA trailer park. The club was Tammany Aero Club in Covington, LA. At some point around 1991 or 1992 the club became overrun by people who thought it was fun to get drunk and run their "indestructible" planes into each other. The last straw was when we were packing up our gear one day, and one of these aircraft slammed into the roof of the shed covering the pits. This prompted my father to start a writing campaign to the AMA asking what would happen if a claim was made on the AMA insurance policy if it came out that the pilot was intoxicated and intentionally running his airplane into another. After a couple of back and forth letters with HQ, the final statement was made that if either one were involved in an incident, the AMA would probably not cover the pilot, or the club. The next step was to propose two separate amendments to the club constitution stating that drinking by pilots would be prohibited, and limiting combat to using streamers. The voter turnout at the meeting made it the largest attendance we ever had, and both amendments were shot down. Me, my father, and about 7 or 8 others (some club officers) got up and walked out. We never went back to fly at that field, formed our own club, and moved on. The next year what is now rule #9 in the AMA safety code was added. Our sport/hobby has enough trouble maintaining fields and gaining community acceptance, we don't need to bring on any further scrutiny by not obeying the rules we all agreed to when we became AMA members.
Taken directly from the AMA Safety Code:
"9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or within eight (8) hours of having consumed alcohol." Most clubs around do not own the property that they fly on, but lease it from a private individual or even a municipality. I would be willing to bet most of these leases were obtained in part because of the charter granted by the AMA, and the safety standards handed down as part of that charter. It is everyone's responsibility to address the use or abuse of alcohol by a pilot at the field. If something were to happen and the incident resulted in injury, or even worse, death (yes, our hobby has been and can be lethal), those leases would disappear and be harder to come by. Adding alcohol to the mix just increases the liklihood of a mishap. I was a member of a club many years ago, and I'm going to go ahead and say the name since so much time has gone by and their field has since become a FEMA trailer park. The club was Tammany Aero Club in Covington, LA. At some point around 1991 or 1992 the club became overrun by people who thought it was fun to get drunk and run their "indestructible" planes into each other. The last straw was when we were packing up our gear one day, and one of these aircraft slammed into the roof of the shed covering the pits. This prompted my father to start a writing campaign to the AMA asking what would happen if a claim was made on the AMA insurance policy if it came out that the pilot was intoxicated and intentionally running his airplane into another. After a couple of back and forth letters with HQ, the final statement was made that if either one were involved in an incident, the AMA would probably not cover the pilot, or the club. The next step was to propose two separate amendments to the club constitution stating that drinking by pilots would be prohibited, and limiting combat to using streamers. The voter turnout at the meeting made it the largest attendance we ever had, and both amendments were shot down. Me, my father, and about 7 or 8 others (some club officers) got up and walked out. We never went back to fly at that field, formed our own club, and moved on. The next year what is now rule #9 in the AMA safety code was added. Our sport/hobby has enough trouble maintaining fields and gaining community acceptance, we don't need to bring on any further scrutiny by not obeying the rules we all agreed to when we became AMA members.
09-20-2006, 08:12 PM
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RE: Alcoholism
Agexpert,
Dude what the h$ll is LS talkin about?? I agree... What...
I don't know what just happened in the last few posts but let me try to re-focus the thread... Anybody worried about starting a S#!T storm by involving the police you can lay that crap to rest, here's why... If you considered calling them, the situation is already B-A-D!!! If you think its gonna get worse by doing so, your wrong.
This topic is not about $$$ solving your problems or fixing the situation. The reason agexpert said what he said was to FIND A SOLUTION that's it, nothing more... Did I miss that or something?? Let me hear it boys!!! [:'(]
Dude what the h$ll is LS talkin about?? I agree... What...
I don't know what just happened in the last few posts but let me try to re-focus the thread... Anybody worried about starting a S#!T storm by involving the police you can lay that crap to rest, here's why... If you considered calling them, the situation is already B-A-D!!! If you think its gonna get worse by doing so, your wrong.
This topic is not about $$$ solving your problems or fixing the situation. The reason agexpert said what he said was to FIND A SOLUTION that's it, nothing more... Did I miss that or something?? Let me hear it boys!!! [:'(]
09-20-2006, 08:30 PM
#24
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RE: Alcoholism
Let him w/o sin cast the 1st stone.......
ORIGINAL: Arrow IV
Agexpert,
Dude what the h$ll is LS talkin about?? I agree... What...
I don't know what just happened in the last few posts but let me try to re-focus the thread... Anybody worried about starting a S#!T storm by involving the police you can lay that crap to rest, here's why... If you considered calling them, the situation is already B-A-D!!! If you think its gonna get worse by doing so, your wrong.
This topic is not about $$$ solving your problems or fixing the situation. The reason agexpert said what he said was to FIND A SOLUTION that's it, nothing more... Did I miss that or something?? Let me hear it boys!!! [:'(]
Agexpert,
Dude what the h$ll is LS talkin about?? I agree... What...
I don't know what just happened in the last few posts but let me try to re-focus the thread... Anybody worried about starting a S#!T storm by involving the police you can lay that crap to rest, here's why... If you considered calling them, the situation is already B-A-D!!! If you think its gonna get worse by doing so, your wrong.
This topic is not about $$$ solving your problems or fixing the situation. The reason agexpert said what he said was to FIND A SOLUTION that's it, nothing more... Did I miss that or something?? Let me hear it boys!!! [:'(]
09-20-2006, 08:35 PM
#25
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RE: Alcoholism
LS,
That dosen't help, I still don't have a clue what your message is... and now your throwin rocks at me...
Sorry guys someone else is gonna have to fix this thread!
That dosen't help, I still don't have a clue what your message is... and now your throwin rocks at me...
Sorry guys someone else is gonna have to fix this thread!